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500N 7th Jul 2014 00:41

No one can really complain with the level of free health care we have in this country. Yes, it is not the top of the tree and waiting times can be a bit long but it is far superior to many other countries.


Bosnich
I feel for you.
I thought that decision by Keating to be stupid and said so in the pub I was in in Port Melbourne, that just happened to be where some tradies for Friday lunch ! I was not a tradie but could see how short sighted it was.

gupta 7th Jul 2014 00:54

Mr Nitro

"(And don't get me started on the bright idea of moving Medicare into the Centrelink Offices. )"

That will be a disaster all over if they do that.
It's a fait accompli

Done over 12 months ago - probably nearer 2 years

And it IS a disaster

Worrals in the wilds 7th Jul 2014 01:00


My two boys happened to leave school at the same time that the great "Labour Icon", Keating stated that there was no need for Tradesmen anymore. That sentenced a whole generation of school leavers to years of looking to improve themselves without the benefit of an apprenticeship etc
It was a really dumb decision, probably one of Keating's dumbest. It's also left us with a huge trade skills gap.

"Given the unholy mess that the previous Labor administration left us with, and the fact that the Libs have to clean up the wreckage ie pay the debt off etc, just what do you think should be done differently to fix the problem ?"
Firstly, I don't buy all the crisis stuff any more than I bought Swannie's 'everything's okay BS. Economists are like footy experts; each team owns several and trot them out regularly to push the team's agenda. :bored:

That said, there's no doubt that the last mob spent like drunken sailors and that's got to stop. Personally I would;
Park the paid maternity leave on the back burner. I'm not theoretically against the idea (though I think it should be means tested) but if we're having a crisis then now's not the time to introduce more welfare, particularly middle class welfare. I would also have a long, hard look at the Family Tax Benefit stuff and how it's means tested; even people driving around in new Mercs seem to be claiming the thing. :hmm:

I would then wind up the BS think tanks and advisors that hang around Canberra hoovering up government money. In fairness the government are doing that, but they're throwing the baby out with the bath water and winding up a lot of important stuff as well. Libs are good at that, as we've seen in Queensland.

Then I would;
1. Increase the alcohol tax dramatically; people are drinking far too much and that drains the health system.
2. Increase the gambling tax for similar reasons.

Both the above are luxury goods/activities and both drain the community through debt and ill health. Increasing these taxes would increase revenue dramatically without penalizing people who elect not to engage.

3. Drop most of the GST exemptions. They were a nice idea that never seemed to work out, and apparently they're quite a big drain on revenue.
4. Look at increasing the GST.

I'm not actually campaigning for either of these :}, but if they need more money the GST is a relatively equitable tax, as in we all pay the same rate and more expensive goods attract more tax than cheap stuff. Nor can it be rorted by rich shonky people; everyone has to pay.

Anyway, I'm no economist and I haven't done the calculations, but I'd rather see those sorts of measures than kicking pensioners, students and the poor and unfortunate.

500N 7th Jul 2014 01:04

Worrals,

Why can't more lefties be like you ? :ok:

Easy to discuss with, sensible solutions.


"people are drinking far too much"

I think that is so true it is not funny. Seems to be Australia's
national past time.

Worrals in the wilds 7th Jul 2014 01:08

That works both ways. :)
The media like running the obnoxious people from both sides of the debate because it makes for good telly. Lousy politics, but good telly. :rolleyes:

Captain Sand Dune 7th Jul 2014 01:37

Good one Worrals:ok:
Toss in the re-introduction of national service and I'll vote for you as Australia's first benevolent dictator.:ok:

people are drinking far too much"

I think that is so true it is not funny. Seems to be Australia's
national past time.
Apparently Australia is one of the biggest users of recreational drugs in the world. Looking at the depressingly regular incidents of drug related crime (especially ICE - nasty stuff:eek:) I'd believe it.
The 'softly, softly' huggy fluff approach of dealing with drugs is failing. Time to look at the Asian approach to dealing with the b*ggers.

500N 7th Jul 2014 01:40

CSD

Agree re drugs, especially Ice or Meths (I am not sure if they are one
and the same) are becoming a huge problem in Aus.

I believe our alcohol consumption is going down, or beer is.

Either way, both of them are a big problem in Aus.

Clare Prop 7th Jul 2014 01:46

There is no such thing as free healthcare unless you are volunteering for something like medicins sans frontiers. We pay for it through the Medicare levy and certainly don't expect our health professionals to work for nothing.

As I understand it bulk billing was not a socialist idea but dreamed up by Geoffrey Edelston to get obscene amounts of money from the government. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

500N 7th Jul 2014 01:50

Clare

A very valid point indeed re it's not free.

When I typed it I was thinking of Aboriginies up North,
hence I added the word "free".

I think you might be right re "Geoffrey Edelston", wasn't he the one who first started the 24 hour Doctors surgeries ?
It might have had something to do with that.

CoodaShooda 7th Jul 2014 02:09


"(And don't get me started on the bright idea of moving Medicare into the Centrelink Offices. )"

That will be a disaster all over if they do that.
It's already happened up here - and it is. :yuk:

chuboy 7th Jul 2014 02:14


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 8552434)
There is no such thing as free healthcare unless you are volunteering for something like medicins sans frontiers. We pay for it through the Medicare levy and certainly don't expect our health professionals to work for nothing.

Just to temper this opinion I would like to point out that a healthy populace pays dividends in and of itself. One should also count opportunity cost when doing the sums :=

User-pays healthcare in the USA, I'm led to believe, costs more and has worse health outcomes per capita than any other country. So arguably a universal system, while not free (what is?) can be the cheaper option overall.

gupta 7th Jul 2014 02:45

Cooda...

Snap

Brian Abraham 7th Jul 2014 02:58

David Mann on "Insiders" yesterday. The most trusted organisations are, in order,

1. High Court
2. ABC
3. Reserve Bank

Should I stop laughing now?

500N 7th Jul 2014 03:03

That is funny. Where did they do the survey, The ABC ?

The Armed Forces used to be at the top a few / couple of years ago.

CoodaShooda 7th Jul 2014 03:40

I had the impression it was a poll of the local Refugee Advocacy Group, offering them a choice of only three organisations.

I'm trying to encourage my father to write the history of the socialist take-over of the ABC. He was there at the time and remains somewhat bitter about the experience.

Sadly, he is of the school where, if you don't have anything good to say about someone, don't say anything.


PS Sorry Gupta. Should read before posting. :-)

Worrals in the wilds 7th Jul 2014 03:47


I'm trying to encourage my father to write the history of the socialist take-over of the ABC. He was there at the time and remains somewhat bitter about the experience.
That would be an interesting read.

Pinky the pilot 7th Jul 2014 05:55


David Mann on "Insiders" yesterday. The most trusted organisations are, in order,

1. High Court
2. ABC
3. Reserve Bank
Why doesn`t someone silk screen the above onto wetsuits, then sell the wetsuits to those who wish to go swimming in shark infested waters.

Because not even a White Pointer would swallow that rubbish!:mad::ugh:


Toss in the re-introduction of national service and I'll vote for you as Australia's first benevolent dictator.
Seconded!:ok:

bosnich71 7th Jul 2014 06:19

500 ..... thanks for your thoughts. As I said both of my boys have got on in life but the younger one especially really struggled to find regular work until he joined the army. After leaving that he worked on oil rigs up North in what he described as atrocious conditions but stuck it out to the point where he now has a good position with a major oil company.
When I left work I had cause to pay my first visit to Centrelink, never having been unemployed before. It really pissed me off to see posters on the walls imploring young people to take up apprenticeships and also seeing teenagers walk in to Centrelink dressed as Harlem Globe Trotters ... and they weren't black ! Obviously didn't want work but at the same time wanted to bag out Howard and the Liberals when he wanted them to work for the dole.
I am not one of those who says that there are jobs for everyone but I'm afraid there are those in our society who would rather bludge off the rest of us.
P.s. as someone who joined the RAF with the last entry of National Servicemen in Britain back in the 60s' I don't think that the average regular soldier etc. wants the Nashos back. They are probably having enough trouble with Female quota and attempting to deal with the P.C in that respect.

Brian Abraham 7th Jul 2014 06:25


After leaving that he worked on oil rigs up North in what he described as atrocious conditions
On the drill floor the work is hard physical labour and out in the elements, I'm assuming that's what the lad means by "atrocious".

EffohX 7th Jul 2014 06:27

The last thing the Army wants is National Service. (However, maybe we've reached the point where they might just have to swallow it.) However, a universal National Service where military service is just one of the many options, is well overdue. Many school leavers currently do a 'gap year'. For the life of me, I can't understand why the government hasn't leapt aboard that and made that gap year into a commitment to some form of civil (or military) national service.

The Army and Navy have had a similar deal in place for some years now, where they open certain low grade jobs within the Services (jobs that don't require long training periods) to youngsters who've just left school, demanding just a 12 month commitment. The hope is that some like what they see and sign on for a longer period or re-enlist after a short time, as some do, if only because they can't find a job with as good a wage and conditions as the military pays.)


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