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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

CoodaShooda 6th Jul 2014 13:23

Pinky
You may be confusing principles with policies. :8

Worrals
You must have better eyesight than me. I haven't been able to discern any principles in any of the parties. (Arrant self interest doesn't count.) :E

Pinky the pilot 6th Jul 2014 13:29


You may be confusing principles with policies
Probably. I`m not exactly known amongst my friends and aquaintances as an overly deep thinker!:O


Which at least with Worrals we will get one.
Exactly. And a measured one at that.

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jul 2014 13:49


Genuine people or the usual "I want a protest rent a crowd"
? Mixture. 50/50 IMO, which is fairly high for a non-affiliated weekend rally. There were a lot of what I call Interested People, ie ordinary people who hang around at the back listening. They were also competing with an ALP by-election function at Stafford later in the day, and many people went to one or the other.

Pinky, we're always friends :cool::}.
1. Six month wait for the dole for unemployed young people. That's all very well for people with supportive families who can feed and house them, but what about the others? What about the stress this will place on low income earning working people with kids out of work? :( This is India style politics that will result in young people without supportive and/or wealthy families having to live in cardboard boxes. Personally I found that alarming enough in India without seeing it here in Australia.
2. Medicare co-payment
3. Deregulation of university fees and Pyne's exhortation that our tertiary system needs to be more like America's :yuk::yuk::yuk:(despite the far greater competition in the USA wrt universities because they have so many more ofr them, and not to mention that pretty much all our current MPs (from both sides of the house) got their degrees for F:mad:CKING FREE thanks to Whitlam... then take that acquired knowledge to tell us that the Age of Entitlement Is Over... sure it is. They've gotten their entitlements and screw the rest of us.

500N 6th Jul 2014 13:58

Worrals

The day has come, I agree with you re No 1.

I think plenty of other things could have been done to tighten up things without going to that extreme.

Re No 2, Medicare co payment, I think the system needed tightening up
because it really was "I have a sniffle, I'll go to the doctor".

3. I was lucky in that I got my degree when it was free, just afterwards they brought in fees. I think something should be charged so it's not a wasted 3 years for free but not exorbitant amounts.

"wandering around wearing Vendetta masks (and paying Timer Warner a chunk of royalties when they bought them :bored:)... "

A bit like the "Occupy Melbourne" crowd who promptly went to McDonalds for breakfast, lunch and dinner or the and G8 / G20 protestors against Capitalism who went after the protest :O


And No, I'm not turning soft or left !!! :O

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jul 2014 14:14


3. I was lucky in that I got my degree when it was free, just afterwards they brought in fees. I think something should be charged so it's not a wasted 3 years for free but not exorbitant amounts.
I am studying and pay fees; $1200 per subject x two per semester. Actually I have no problem with that, but times it by ten....:{


Re No 2, Medicare co payment, I think the system needed tightening up because it really was "I have a sniffle, I'll go to the doctor".
Let's say you have three children (not unusual). Let's say one of them gets the sniffle, passes it on and all five of you end up with a bug that requires antibiotics. That's not seven dollars, that's thirty five dollars every visit and every time you need a scrip (the medicine will cost more again :sad:).
Now most people can pay that. Most people pay above the bulk bill rate; but the welfare system is not for most people. It's for poor people; unfortunate people. The people who Abbott and Hockey call "entitled". :yuk: Removing the bulk bill rate for these people saves the country a pittance, but costs those people a fortune. If it had even had an exemption for concession card holders I could have been swayed, but it didn't. This is common or garden class warfare, and I never thought I would see it in Australia. Howard was far too smart for this shit.:(

500N 6th Jul 2014 14:20

Worrals

I agree re the medicare thing but the system still needs tightening up,
not against the mother of 5 with sniffles but against unnecessary visits to the doctors. Not sure how to do it.

Re your fees, yep, sounds reasonable. No need to charge 10x that. As long as it makes students feel the need to do something
and get a job to pay for it, all well and good by me.

Worrals
I (and I am sure Pinky) would still like to hear your response to his question:-

"Given the unholy mess that the previous Labor administration left us with, and the fact that the Libs have to clean up the wreckage ie pay the debt off etc, just what do you think should be done differently to fix the problem ?"

SOPS 6th Jul 2014 20:13

Young families, elderly worse off under proposed $7 GP co-payment: study - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Ok I admit, I don't get it. $7.00 dollars to see a doctor seems cheap. Our family doctor (I know our choice ) charges $80'for 15 minutes or $170 for 30 minutes. Ok, I admit, we can afford it, and am lucky enough to afford private health insurance. If you go to the USA example, if you are poor you get no help, and the are fighting against the so called Obamah Care tooth and nail.

I'm just not getting the reality...ok I understand that from free to $7.00 is money, but it's not $700 a visit.

I'm am ready to be shot down.

500N 6th Jul 2014 20:22

SOPS

I think a lot of people forget that we already pay - or already have paid for years - the Medicare Levy.

Now it is 1.5 - 2%

So the $7 fee is on top of that.

OK, I know there is a threshold and low income earners don't pay it but
the principle is the same and the threshold is very low indeed.

owen meaney 6th Jul 2014 20:35

500N,
As a socialist I am appalled that "doctors" can overcharge the workers for their services. Universal health care should be for all and affordable if not free.

500N 6th Jul 2014 20:40

Owen
I must be misunderstanding you.
Doctors "over charge" ?????

Personally, I think the medicare set up was / is good as it was - before the co payment and made, as you said it
(I have chopped some words out) "Universal health care affordable for all".

SOPS 6th Jul 2014 21:06

Ok..I am retired hurt..on this argument.

owen meaney 6th Jul 2014 21:38


Doctors "over charge" ?????
$85 for 15 minutes is an extraordinary charge.
Dentists as well fall into this category.

500N 6th Jul 2014 21:43

Owen

OK, sorry, I missed that and didn't connect it with the SOPS post.


In Australia, if people choose they do not have to pay that, walk into Doctor,
hand over Medicare card and hey presto, service provided, Gov't billed direct, no money changes hands (called Bulk Billing) - until the $7 co payment came in.

IF people choose to go to a non bulk billing doctor, then so be it, it is a choice you can make especially if you have Private Health insurance.

So that is SOPS choice to go there.


Does that explain it / the system better ?

500N 6th Jul 2014 21:53

Morrison has confirmed AS handed over yesterday.

As we expected. I suppose once they are back, lawyers can't get involved
in trying to stop it.

Asylum seekers screened at sea returned to Sri Lanka

7x7 6th Jul 2014 22:32

ALPBC now reporting a third boat.

I'm certain the government would not be offering that information to the media, so I can only assume that there's someone with yet another sat. phone out there (or someone at the departure port) who has all the right numbers in Australia on his quick dial.

I wouldn't put it past the Leftie Luvvies here in Australia to try to overwhelm the border protection forces with a half dozen boats or more coming en masse (if they can find enough hopefuls willing to risk their money), hoping that at least one will make it to Christmas Island undetected. They so desperately want Operation Sovereign Borders to fail, and 'failure' for them is just one solitary asylum seeker setting foot ashore at Christmas Island.

I fear that some unfortunate, quite possibly a child, might be deliberately harmed seriously enough so that the border protection forces will be forced to bring that person ashore for medical treatment.

And then the ALPBC will crow that the government has 'failed', with selective memory loss about the days under Rudd and Gillard when two boats with upwards of a hundred people on each were sometimes arriving each day.

500N 6th Jul 2014 23:33

I had to laugh at this

"Egypt's President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi says he wishes three al-Jazeera journalists, including Australian Peter Greste, had not been put on trial, conceding the case has been damaging."

Well, you call the Australian embassy, tell them you are going to dump him on an aircraft to Australia and they are to have someone accompany him on the flight. Then pick him up in a vehicle and take him to the airport.
Problem solved, no longer Turkey's problem and the US Gov't doesn't get embarrassed either (they were sentenced a day are John Kerry visited the President in a show of support :rolleyes:).


CoodaShooda 7th Jul 2014 00:03


IF people choose to go to a non bulk billing doctor, then so be it, it is a choice you can make especially if you have Private Health insurance.
I didn't think you could insure for doctors' visits these days. :confused:

I've held top private cover for the past 40 odd years.

It's almost impossible to get in to a bulk billing doctor up here, so we pay $90-130 for a consult and get $36 back from Medicare.

(If we are lucky. The practice I've used since 1977 sold out to a southern retail medicine mob last year. When I went to Medicare to claim the refund after my last consult, I was told they had already paid it to the practice as a bulk bill so I get nothing. Medicare didn't want to know - my problem to take up with the practice. The practice apologized and said they'd sort it out - then issued another receipt - which, when presented to Medibank, was found to have also been claimed as a bulk bill. :ugh::mad: I've given up and moved to another practice.)

Of course, I could do as Paul Keating recommended a few years back and rely on public health. Its certainly much cheaper.

But then again, my wife would have died on the waiting lists while waiting for cancer treatment 5 years ago had we not gone private. (I'm still paying off the second mortgage we had to take out to cover the costs of that one, even with private cover.)

So I guess I'll continue supporting public health freeloaders by contributing through my taxes, paying the medicare levy, paying for private insurance, paying a $50+ co-payment each time my wife or I see a doctor and keeping my family off the public waiting lists.

$7 to see a doctor?.......Loooxury!

(And don't get me started on the bright idea of moving Medicare into the Centrelink Offices. :mad:)

500N 7th Jul 2014 00:11

Cooda

"It's almost impossible to get in to a bulk billing doctor up here,"

I know.

I got to some Aboriginal clinics (or a remote Aboriginal clinic) occasionally,
either as a patient or dropping others off. The cost of providing doctors to the NT is staggering. As soon as they need a visit to Darwin, flight or bus, all paid for :rolleyes:

"(And don't get me started on the bright idea of moving Medicare into the Centrelink Offices. :mad:)"

That will be a disaster all over if they do that.

rh200 7th Jul 2014 00:17


As a socialist I am appalled that "doctors" can overcharge the workers for their services.
In principle, true, but who decides whats over charging?

Frankly the numbers provided are a joke, I've never been charged near that, by doctors or dentists


Universal health care should be for all and affordable if not free.
Another Utopian principle, what level of health care and to what standard? Do you want the gold plated standard, that can only be afforded to people who can fly to the Hamptons? Maybe a mean standard that the Private hospitals can do, or a to a standard that the public hospitals can do.

The truth is we have free universal health care to a point. If you get hit by a truck, the public system will take care of you. So when you can come up with a reasonable metric let me know, until then stop wining about universal health care.

The fact is, medical issues are accounting for one of our single biggest budget drains, and its growing, so feel free to come up wit sustainable solution.

bosnich71 7th Jul 2014 00:33

All this talk about getting a "free" degree or whatever well here's a comment from a parent whose kids didn't go to Uni.
My two boys happened to leave school at the same time that the great "Labour Icon", Keating stated that there was no need for Tradesmen anymore. That sentenced a whole generation of school leavers to years of looking to improve themselves without the benefit of an apprenticeship etc. Try seeing your kids applying for a job and finding that there were over a thousand other applicants, for one position, then you'd soon start to question whether the Labour party really was the one you just had to vote for...... scumbags the lot of them,on both sides !
Having said that both my children managed to find worthwhile employment but no thanks to Effin' "icons" from either side of politics.


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