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chuboy 22nd Jun 2014 04:11

That was before globalisation was a buzzword, wasn't it?

Flying Binghi 22nd Jun 2014 04:38

via chuboy:
That was before globalisation was a buzzword, wasn't it?
Dunno, i've seen the word used in many ways. Perhaps you can tell us what you mean re the current subject ?


chuboy 22nd Jun 2014 06:17

Well globalisation... i.e. carring out your business in whichever part of the world suits you the best

You could define it a number of other ways of course, but that is the essence of it.

My understanding is that globalisation only became a thing through the later 90s and 00s. During that time, the use of cheap labour in Asia proliferated.

Anyway relevance to unions is that its probably a little unfair to place 100% of the blame on unions for the decline of manufacturing. Not many people here willing to match the wages and living standards of Bangladeshi peasants for the sake of a job making sneakers...

Then there are managers who are happy to do business in such places where ethical and environmental standards are... let's say poorly developed.

Finally you have the good old Aussie (or Western in general) consumer who cares not for the country of origin so long as the item can bought on an hour's wages...

bosnich71 22nd Jun 2014 07:01

Chuboy ... I agree with you 100% .
Everyone wants to "blame the unions" but no one knocks back a pay rise for the "good of the country" do they ? A bit like a Greenie who wants to shut down all coal fired power stations but who still wants a tram at the end of the street.
And, as someone once said, there's always someone/some country who will do it cheaper, used to be Japan, then Hong Kong, then Taiwan followed by Korea,India,Bangladesh etc.etc.etc. Stand by for Africa.

P.s. I once spent 9 months of my life(?) on the production line of a major quality car manufacturer in U.K. The aircraft business in Britain was being dismantled by that nice Mr.Wilson at the time and I was in need of some money as I was recently married. However it was mind bogglingly boring and I eventually took a job paying approx.50% less just to retrieve my sanity. There were strikes at that factory but not all were down to union thuggery or mindless workers. Many were disputes manufactured by management to control output of new vehicles as the company had a major problem when they moved to a day and night shift due to demand for a radical new model and whilst they doubled output they did not double the storage, movement etc. of cars to showrooms. Bottlenecks in the system were solved by a forced stoppage of production.
Whilst I have respect for the views held by others on this blog there are times when I think that some need to have been out in the real world now and again . Smiley added...........

Flying Binghi 22nd Jun 2014 08:06

Some find driving an aeroplane exceedingly boring, some find it exhilarating.

Some find sitting in the drivers seat of a tractor exceedingly boring, some find it productive.

And so on...

via bosnich71:
...Many were disputes manufactured by management to control output of new vehicles as the company had a major problem when they moved to a day and night shift due to demand for a radical new model and whilst they doubled output they did not double the storage, movement etc. of cars to showrooms...
bosnich, i've got a bit of an interest in automotive history. Perhaps you could provide some links to a record of the incident ?

Mr Wilson dates it to about the time of a brand new Hillman Imp factory being opened and the unions throwing a strike on day one. The unions then destroyed Rootes group with continuous strikes until foreigners bought it out..:hmm:

Further google searchs: The car "Hillman Imp" and the company name "Rootes group"

This article sorta encapsulates the union mindset idiocy:

"...a powerful union continuously demanding better working conditions while providing worse service. For example, a former senior officer of the Parachute Regiment, who visited an auto assembly plant as an adviser on leadership, told me that after he saw a notice that said the “tea break” would be scrapped to improve productivity, he and asked a worker how he reacted. The worker replied that he used his drill to add extra holes to the car door to weaken the construction and reducing the car’s working life. The worker believed that this would harm management, but not him..."

GM Troubles Repeat British Auto Industry Mistakes of the 1970s | Competitive Enterprise Institute


Andu 22nd Jun 2014 09:09

Slight change of subject: reports in today's press that after child care and other costs, (but child care is by far the major slug), many women who return to work after having a child end up earning as little as $3.50 an hour nett.

So here's a radical idea: I know the suggestion to follow is by no means a panacea, and will outrage many Lefties, for whom the traditional two parent, two genders family is anathema, but if we could put all that aside for one moment and accept that it will, if adopted, affect a relatively large number of parents with young children.

How about changing the tax system to allow one of the parents to "employ" his or her spouse for as much as 50% of his or her gross salary? To cover the non-traditional family so beloved of the Left, it might be possible for a single parent to similarly employ a family member or a complete outsider if that person so employed was full time carer of that single parent's child(ren).

Think about the advantages. In the traditional family, one parent could almost certainly afford to stay at home and be the full time child carer to her or his child(ren) because the family unit would enjoy two $18,000 packages at zero tax and two packages of minimal tax. Any loss of taxation income would surely be offset by the huge advantages to society in having children grow up cared for by their natural parents. I suspect there would also be huge savings in the government being able to drop many other current programmes where taxpayers' money is paid to support parents who are forced to put their children into child care.

Worrals in the wilds 22nd Jun 2014 09:44

WITW; the latest Holden (VF) Commodore is a bloody good car equivalent to any in this class if not better; the Holden Ute (and the Ford Ute) particularly the big V8 models are the best (unbeatable) of their type anywhere in the world.
Yeah, but who wants a car in that class? Seriously, how many people want a V8 or even a V6 these days?

And its all a joke to them unionists.
FWIW, I'm not laughing. :( Nor are the boys/girls at Holden, Ford and Toyota who manufactured what they were told to manufacture.

bosnich71 22nd Jun 2014 10:43

Flying Binghi .... the place I worked at was a bit up market from Rootes but the same city though if the Rootes place you talk about was Ryton but I think that you may be talking of elsewhere. The Imp, or Pimp as we called it,may have been road tested etc. by the likes of Mike Parkes, an engineer at Rootes, but he certainly didn't have to drive the bloody thing anywhere near Le Mans or else he would have been lucky to have reached Arnage on the first lap.
It was the late 60s' when I had the misfortune to need to work in the car industry. The factory was basically antiquated, old machinery most of which dated from the 2nd World War and had been produced to last a short time but was still in use over 25 years later ..... no wonder British cars left oil on the garage floor. Out dated work practices were the norm. The speed of the production line ruled everything most notably the inspection procedures, such as they were. Don't tell the Superintendent that something didn't quite fit or you were having trouble with something, the track kept moving and the product, good or bad, went off the end of it on schedule. As stated in my earlier post this company had only ever had a day shift operation until a demand for one of their vehicles led to the introduction of a night shift which resulted in a doubling of production of the one model. Unfortunately this doubling of numbers did not result in a doubling of facilities for shifting cars off plant to showrooms. There were old blokes at the works who could tell you when the next dispute was going to happen.... not just the week, not even the day but the very hour of the day. They judged this on the number of cars in the factory storage area and it's capacity. Also only enough stores were kept on site to enable a couple days production in the event of a dispute/hold up in parts from suppliers. And before anyone thinks that given, relatively higher wages than the norm at the time, it wasn't too bad a place to work it should be noted that there was no sick leave paid,no overtime rates or suchlike and if you did have a day off sick you had to produce a Doctors certificate to prove such plus of course time and wages lost as a result of creative disputes many times not of the making of the workforce despite what the newspapers of the time said.
The same company is now making huge profits and quality products, funnily enough with the same type of workers as before, but who now don't feel the need to argue with management quite so much as their Fathers perhaps did. The original, famous, factory has closed down and all work is now carried out elsewhere in the Midlands in a state of the art facility which was originally built during the war but, thankfully, is light years away from the place where some of my family members spent 60 hours a week for five years during WW2 producing Spitfires.
There was documentary on Oz T.V. not long back showing how cars are now produced in this facility. Watching it nearly brought me to tears.A clean workplace environment, state of the art robotics etc. etc. If only some of the money made in the old days had been invested in this type of factory perhaps the story of the British car industry may have had a better ending.
P.s. it's worth noting that a Japanese car factory in the North of England is now has the best production figures for that company world wide, should make some think.

500N 22nd Jun 2014 11:14

Sounds a bit like when the Japs went into the USA and set up factories,
over the years they turned the industry on it's head and the old school
US Unions saddled with huge costs couldn't compete.

Saltie 22nd Jun 2014 13:14

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
Toyota was producing the very same cars here as they do elsewhere, but it was costing them almost twice as much to do so here as in Asia. Some of the perks the unions has 'won' for the Toyota workers were ridiculous. The same applied to the SPC Ardmona cannery workers. How much leave we're they getting ? 10 weeks? And a 'bright can allowance'?

Paul Murray was rabbiting on about child care tonight, suggesting that women you were earning as little as $3.50 an hour nett after paying child care should consider staying home, so the idea of husbands employing their wife might be worth looking at.

Andu 23rd Jun 2014 03:01

Is the current fracas about Australian passport holders - (like many others, I can't bring myself to refer to these people as Australians) - going overseas to fight for (to mainstream Australia, at least) questionable causes, an opportunity for the Government to address the whole question of dual citizenship?

I've been saying here for years - the whole concept is wrong, even when the other citizenship is to a nation that might be described as benign. The current situation brings home the stark fact that it should be scrapped. If someone living here wishes to (or feels he/she must) maintain the citizenship of another nation, that person may - stress MAY - be granted residency, but not the right to vote nor many other privileges of citizenship.

parabellum 23rd Jun 2014 04:21

Following on what Andu has just said, when the Greeks, Italians, Poms, Dutch etc. came here they intended to integrate, respect the Australian culture and laws and didn't expect Australia to modify their laws or way of life to suit them. Middle Eastern arrivals are a whole new ball game, they have no intention of adopting Australian culture and will ignore those laws that they don't like whilst, at the same time, trying to impose their culture on everyone else.

When trouble in the Lebanon brewed up the last time there were 25,000 so called Australians contacting the Embassy expecting to be flown to Australia, most, having got their citizenship, promptly went back to the Lebanon, to many of the ME arrivals, Australia is just a convenience.

500N 23rd Jun 2014 04:27


That's exactly right.

Yes, Melbourne (and probably other cities) had enclaves or clusters of certain cultures but over time, these spread out and even outside the clusters they integrated.

Australia has had immigrants since it started - in the Chinese - 200+ years ago.

bosnich71 23rd Jun 2014 04:34

Just like to give people a heads up on the Royal Commission into union malfeasance .... it is now sitting in Perth and having a look into "your" superannuation amongst other things.
It seems that 'Our ABC' has also woken up to union bad habits and will address them on 4 Corners this evening... Monday, in Melbourne at least.

Worrals in the wilds 23rd Jun 2014 09:07

Following on what Andu has just said, when the Greeks, Italians, Poms, Dutch etc. came here they intended to integrate, respect the Australian culture and laws and didn't expect Australia to modify their laws or way of life to suit them.
Agreed, but plenty of them kept dual citizenship and their Aussie born descendents have applied where eligible, mainly so they can work and live in the EU. I know people with very tenuous links to Ireland who applied for Irish citizenship when it became available, and AFAIK none of them have trekked to the 'homeland' to help out with the Troubles. Admittedly there were rumoured to be a few Serb and Croatian Aussies who helped out during that war, but it wasn't as widespread (or at least not as high profile :suspect:) as the current 'Aussie' jihadists.

IMO it is unacceptable that Australian citizens are travelling overseas to fight for these mongrels, but they're a tiny percentage of the Aussies who hold dual citizenship. I know we've disagreed on this before (several times ;)) and I accept your opinion, but I still disagree with it. I think it penalises the law abiding, decent majority without addressing the actual issue, i.e. the Islamic radical movement within Australia. :( Today there have been Australian Muslim protests against the violence in Iraq, and IMO we should be supporting them all the way.

Toyota was producing the very same cars here as they do elsewhere, but it was costing them almost twice as much to do so here as in Asia.
Interesting, thanks. I didn't know that. Was that wrt Japanese made Toyotas, the Thai-made models or both?

7x7 23rd Jun 2014 12:00

Interesting comment on the Kangaroo Court site.

A friend’s brother is highly placed inside the AWU (known on real union circles as Australia’s Worst Union - the correct moniker, mind you!), told that “Whatever you hear about Gillard multiply by ten, and then you’re getting somewhere near it. Gillard’s name was all over it!”

500N 23rd Jun 2014 13:09

What may I ask is the "Kangaroo Court site" ?

Is that the RC ?

Anyway, that comment is gold :ok:

Serbs/Croats etc went, no doubt about it. The Aust Gov't seemed to turn a blind eye to it.
Some serving soldiers (at the time) went.

7x7 23rd Jun 2014 22:11

Kangaroo Court of Australia |

500N 24th Jun 2014 05:21

Someone who talks sense.

The exodus of up to 200 radicalised Muslims from this country - headed for Syria, Iraq and jihad - has been met with much hand-wringing in the government and media, when it's actually an exceptional opportunity to weed out the biggest nutcases in our population, once and forever.

Much has been made of the fact convicted terrorist and welfare cheat, Khaled Sharrouf, managed to leave Australia using his brother's passport last December ... like this is a bad thing.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Jun 2014 08:09

Agreed. Bye now! :E

However, with the move by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to issue all Australian citizens with biometric passports embedded with a computer chip, it is also going to become increasingly difficult for criminal dills like Sharrouf and Radd to even leave the country.
Let's remember that prior to 9/11 there was a big push to get rid of Australian outward passenger processing, because it's expensive and 'everyone else had.' :ugh: IMO it's far better to know who's coming and going and I'm very glad we kept it up. :suspect:

known on real union circles as Australia’s Worst Union
Or the Australian [email protected] Union. :} It will be interesting to see what the Commission turns up. If people have been sticking their grubby little fingers in the till then they deserve to be outed for it.

P.S. Interesting story, bosnich. Thanks for sharing it.

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