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500N 30th May 2014 05:45

Manus Island ?

Only a few really care, two dads and a couple of others.

Everyone else has forgotten about it !

rh200 30th May 2014 06:07

Manus Island ?
Yaawwn, Manus where? Is that some kind of resort or something?:p

alisoncc 30th May 2014 06:55

Family Tax Benefits are middle-class welfare.

Family Tax Benefits are middle-class welfare. Family Tax Benefit Part A is paid for each child and the amount is based on a family's circumstances.Families on less than about $48,000 receive full benefits, dropping away to nil at about $200,000. Depending on income and number of children a family can receive between $54 and $200 per fortnight per child, plus a supplementary payment. Family Tax Benefit Part B is for families (single parent or couple) in which the primary earner has an adjusted taxable income of $150,000 or less per year. Payment varies between $100 and $144 per fortnight, plus a supplementary payment.
Australia's Family Tax Benefits will cost about $20 billion in 2012-13. The system is too expensive
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

alisoncc 30th May 2014 07:24

What is very obvious is that consecutive governments have been paying parents to raise kids. Most probably seeing them as future contributors. So surely the real question is "Does the Govt paying parents to raise kids as future contributors constitute welfare or is it an investment in the future?"

parabellum 30th May 2014 07:40

This 'class' thing is a piece of BS encouraged by Swann and Wong. The only delineation is between working and non working people. The guy who empties my sceptic tank earns close to $200,000 a year and would be horrified to be classified as 'middle class'. The correct terminology would be wage or salary bands, that's it.

Captain Sand Dune 30th May 2014 08:19

And this week, Muslims are outraged by..

ANGRY Muslims in Malaysia demand a Jihad, or holy war, be declared on confectionary company Cadbury and their parent company after traces of pig DNA were found.
In response Cadbury Malaysia is pulling Cadbury Dairy Milk hazelnut and Cadbury Dairy Milk roast almond from shelves in the Islamic country, Reuters reports.
A group of more than 20 Muslim organisations condemned the UK-based company, owned by Mondelēz International, saying “it has crossed the line.”

Jihad call from some Muslim groups ... Cadbury Malaysia has vowed to find the source of the PIG DNA that got into two products. Source: YouTube
“They have betrayed us Muslims by putting ‘haram’ elements through the foods we consume in our body, to weaken us Muslims,” said Abu Bakar Yahya, chief of Muslim group, Perkasa Selangor, at a press conference in Kuala Lumpur, Malaymailonline reports.
Some Muslim organisations even called for a Jihad to be declared against Cadbury for its “betrayal.”
The Malaysian Islamic Development Department was urged to take legal action against Cadbury.
The Malaysian Health Ministry confirmed that traces of porcine DNA had been picked up in a routine check for non-halal substances in Cadbury products. According to Islamic law, Muslims cannot consume pork or any products derived from it.
“Ensuring that all our products made here in Malaysia are halal is something we take very seriously,” Cadbury Malaysia said in a Facebook posting.
Malaysian Health Minister Subramaniam Sathasivam told press that Cadbury was now cooperating with the Ministry and sharing samples to ascertain where the porcine DNA came from.
“We want to know how the product became contaminated with pig DNA. The health ministry will also do additional tests,” said Subramaniam.
Cadbury Malaysia sales are a small fraction of the around 15 per cent of the company’s revenues that come from the Asia-Pacific region, but concerns over halal standards could jeopardise sales in bigger Muslim markets, such as Indonesia and the Middle East.
Too funny! It must be difficult keeping up with which Jihad to pursue; an author here, a cartoonist there, a group of defenceless teenage girls elsewhere, and now chocolate manufacturers....

Hempy 30th May 2014 08:31

Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 8499339)
The guy who empties my sceptic tank earns close to $200,000 a year

As an aside, anyone who empties septic tanks for a living (especially yours ;) :D) DESERVES $200K/pa imho. Not really sure it's enough for me to consider it as a career option, put it that way!!

Captain Dart 30th May 2014 09:27

I hope the ALPBC keep Peppa Pig; can't be compulsive viewing for the Mussies! Maybe something else for them to be angry about.

Worrals in the wilds 30th May 2014 10:09

As an aside, anyone who empties septic tanks for a living (especially yours ;) :D) DESERVES $200K/pa imho. Not really sure it's enough for me to consider it as a career option, put it that way!!
Agreed :ooh:, and that's speaking as the friend of a bloke who used to work at Brisbane's major sewerage treatment plant.

There isn't a big queue of people wanting to break into the waste treatment/cleanup industries, so the relevant companies have to Pay. They also Charge; like scrub bulls in my experience, particularly when it's an emergency call out :ouch:. Good luck to them too, particularly when they turn up at 2AM with plumbers and sucker trucks to take the 'stuff':yuk: away, after it's escaped from the tank/truck and made a break for freedom, complete with wads of paper and identifiable chunky bits.
Unsung heroes. :ok:

The only delineation is between working and non working people.
I think there are more delineations than that, though I agree that we shouldn't all be at each other's throats about 'class' divisions because they're either hackneyed, outdated or both.
As a starting point I'd propose;
1. Big earners due to their assets
The traditional English 'aristocrat' types, who own estates and collect enough rent/interest to live on. We don't have many people in Australia like that, though there are a few.

2. Big earners who own a very profitable business (inherited or self made)
Most of our rich people. The Packers, big cattle guys etc. Entertainment industry types like Kylie et al; they run their own business (which is themselves). Top medical specialists, barristers and professionals who work for themselves and maybe employ a couple of support staff.

3.Big earners who work for a very profitable business
CEOs, pollies/ senior civil servants, mining company execs. Solicitors in big legal firms (though the whole partnership thing gets messy because they're part owners), health system top docs, executive managers etc. People on a big salary who work for someone. IME some of them get antsy when you remind them that they're still technically workers ;):}.

The rest of us mostly fit the same basic categories, except most of us earn less money.
1. self employed people
2. business owners who employ staff from 3. 4. or both
3. people who work for salary
4. people who work for hourly wages
5. people who are temporarily unemployed
6. people who are permanently unemployed

As I see it these are the six principle categories of employment. Maybe I've missed someone? 'Class' is a messy concept at best, particularly in Australia. People tie themselves in knots trying to classify people or jobs as 'working' class, 'middle' class or 'upper' class, ending up in a prize tizz when considering cases like a warehouse manager who started on the floor, did a uni degree and became an executive manager, or a kid from a professional family who liked working outdoors and did a trade rather than becoming a lawyer, or similar. Then the tradie marries a cattle-king's daughter, the warehouse manager meets a nice dentist, they all have kids and the W/C M/C U/C categories become completely irrelevant.

EDIT: haven't covered retirees, whether self funded, pension funded or (for the most part) combos.

P.S. This already happened about thirty years ago. It hasn't stopped happening, either. :} Listening to the academic brigade discuss class is like listening to people who complain about hot cross buns appearing in January; pleasantly nostalgic and completely irrelevant.

Clare Prop 30th May 2014 11:53

"It's not like my business is going to dry up overnight is it?"

Ethel the Aardvark 30th May 2014 14:22

There is an old saying " there is money in shite"
Anyhow, nice to see downturn Abbott delegating Truss to read out the bad news r.e MH370, abbotomy's original search from a couple of km's has got a whole lot bigger, what a Pratt!

alisoncc 30th May 2014 22:09

Two months ago reckoned it wasn't MH370. Wonder how much money Abbottoir has wasted on this stupid venture. Or doesn't it matter how much he spends?


Takan Inchovit 30th May 2014 22:34

Good Morning
If the previous labia govt were still in, we would now have 'The Department of MH370 Whereabouts', employing defunct unionists and failed lawyers dedicated to blaming Abbot for its disappearance.

Maybe some people here are feeling nostalgic at missing that opportunity.

MH370 was always going to be a hard one, at least there are people with out there looking. Just glad I did not know anyone on that flight.

Captain Sand Dune 30th May 2014 23:03

Wonder how much money Abbottoir has wasted on this stupid venture. Or doesn't it matter how much he spends?
Yeah that's right - I didn't know anyone on the flight so who cares?:rolleyes:
On a totally different subject, this from news.com.au:

RAAF chief Air Marshal Geoff Brown has slammed a “hamstrung” Defence bureaucracy and warned that without radical change the nation’s most expensive weapon’s system — the $12 billion Joint Strike Fighter — might never be properly integrated.
In a frank assessment of the state of the cumbersome Defence organisation he said it was dominated by archaic structures that had created ‘silos’ not related to capability.
He said the Government’s “first principles” review of the bureaucracy, due to be take place this year, would provide a great opportunity to change the way Defence did business.
And not before time!

Speaking to an audience of military and industry leaders at a Williams Foundation air power dinner, Air Marshal Brown said getting something done in Defence was like dealing with a bucket of corks. He said each cork had to be held down, but if one popped up it was back to square one.
“If I don’t want something to happen in Defence my tactic is to send it on whatever process we have designed, because that is an absolute guarantee that it will not succeed,” Air Marshal Brown said.

“We can often be constrained by previous mindsets.’
As the defence bureaucrats in the room focused on their shoes, the plain-speaking 30-year RAAF veteran and fighter pilot said the major threat within Defence was the “high priest” of centralism.
“Highly centralised organisations cannot produce the results that small teams do.”
Air Marshal Brown, who has been given a 12-month extension in the top job, said that the RAAF was well advanced in preparing for the arrival of $12 billion worth of F-35 stealth jets under a project named `Jericho’, after the biblical walls.
“Breaking down the walls and breaking down the stovepipes of Defence is central if we are actually going to realise the full capability of modern capabilities,” he said
“If we don’t break down those stovepipes.....I think we will fundamentally be missing a great opportunity that we have with the new technology.”
The chief also revealed that the military was working on an option to possibly equip the navy’s new 27,000-tonne Landing Helicopter Dock ships (LHDs) with ‘jump-jet’ versions of the strike fighter.
The Abbott Government strongly favours buying the Short Take Off Vertical Landing (STOVL) version of the F-35 used by the US Marine Corps for the final squadron of RAAF jets to be purchased after 2025.
While the original Spanish design LHD was capable of carrying the fighter jet, the Australian versions have been completed without the equipment necessary to operate fixed-wing aircraft.
“It’s got its challenges and that is what we will work through over the next few months is to articulate what those challenges are, what’s the additional costs, if that’s the way somebody wanted to go,” Air Marshal Brown said.
Industry leaders lambasted the idea as completely unnecessary, expensive and probably unachievable given Defence’s history with large modification projects.
Given the way Defence has managed “large modification projects” – certainly. Get rid of DMO and remove the red tape bullsh*t and the idea may just have a chance.
Hopefully the Chief's tirade applied to one of the RAAF's longest procurements - Project Air 5428, otherwise known as the PC9/A replacement. To date it is evident that the RAAF has not learnt the lessons from the Macchi.

500N 30th May 2014 23:12

I noticed that more senior defence people have been prepared to speak out over the last few years.

Maybe they are now reassertion themselves over the civvies.

Ethel the Aardvark 30th May 2014 23:19

Don't worry , we have a whole lot of useless tanks and submarines all we need is a useless aircraft to go with it, bingo a trifector.
If only Blabbott had acknowledged it was a big task to find MH 370 instead of getting hopes up by indicating it's there within a couple of km's , :D

Worrals in the wilds 30th May 2014 23:22

That's very interesting CSD. I could name a couple of large APS agencies with exactly the same problem. :suspect:
Nor was it brought about by Rudd's government, because they were particularly bad through the Howard years. I don't know who started it, but it's about time someone reined it in.

500N 30th May 2014 23:29

Dmo, was based in the 90's when I was serving and it started before that.

Serving officers need to be at the top of the tree and in control of the final say with no options for civvies to bypass to other civvies.

And in certain roles, the time in position needs to be extended, like the project managers, so you get more continuity over the life of project.

parabellum 30th May 2014 23:50

Over fifty years ago when I was learning something of the military principles of movement the one that stood out was;
"The control of movement will be centralised at the highest level at which it can be adequately exercised"

The operative words are, "adequately exercised", we took this to mean 'If you don't know what it is all about, stay out and leave it too the professionals'

I think the Air Marshall may have had this in mind?

So true Takan Inchovit, and had the matter been in the hands of Gillard/Rudd then long before now they would have, at public expense, chartered a cruise ship and loaded it up with multiple TV crews, all the relatives they could muster plus as many free loaders from the ALP that they could find and gone off down into the Indian ocean and made a huge publicity expo of laying wreathes at a spot where there was nothing.

Ethel and Allison - don't, for one minute, imagine that Gillard/Rudd would have handled this sad incident without milking it for every ounce of publicity and themselves on TV that they could and with no better chance of finding the aircraft.

rh200 30th May 2014 23:58

Two months ago reckoned it wasn't MH370. Wonder how much money Abbottoir has wasted on this stupid venture. Or doesn't it matter how much he spends?
Well there will obviously be a limit, but the amount set aside at the moment is trivial. It represents four days of interest payments on our national debt that Labor created.

As usual the the left concentrate on single cost spikes, where it is the long term systematics which is the problem.

Don't worry , we have a whole lot of useless tanks and submarines all we need is a useless aircraft to go with it, bingo a trifector.
Their only useless until you need them. Skimp on defense and you could end up like the Ukraine, though I'm sure some on here dream of the day when we have a real political system that would be overseen by the likes of China or Russia.

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