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500N 27th May 2014 01:24

alison

"As for compassion and understanding, that only extends to their own when caught interferring with children."

I was going to post something similar but last time I highlighted that issue
all hell broke lose :rolleyes:. They don't like being reminded of the kiddie fiddlers that were protected from within !

Worrals in the wilds 27th May 2014 02:27

'They' are as disgusted as any other reasonable person was.
'They' are extremely critical of the Church's repeated cover ups and consider its actions in doing so to be the height of evil and hypocrisy.

However,
'They' will also note that similar things happened in other religious and civil institutions, and the problem was not soley a Catholic one, not by a long shot.
'They' will also recall that the majority of priests are not child molesters and never were, despite many popular claims to the contrary. Nor were all priests aware of the activities, despite that claim also being regularly run up the flagpole.

But never let any of that get in the way of a bit of ol' fashioned religious bigotry. :bored: All that changes are the insults; it used to be 'terrorist' now it's 'child molestor', and in each case the activities of a small minority were used to judge the moderate and/or non perverted majority.
Whatever.

alisoncc 27th May 2014 02:41

Worrals I appreciate your point of view, nevertheless the relocation of those involved still continues.

Pell has been both promoted to head up the Vatican finances and moved to Rome, whilst there is a very strong probability that he knew exactly what was happening in Melbourne during his tenure as Bishop in charge. But now he is outside the jurisdiction of the Australian legal system. So nothing has changed.

If Pell is found to have perverted the course of justice or had obstructed the police in their investigations does anyone think the Vatican would willingly give him up. No way - he's gone for good.

500N 27th May 2014 02:42

Worrals

Agree re not only C but involved the others.
Agree re the rest as well.

Problem as I see it, when it did come into the open (public), George Pell stuck his head up, denied, hindered,
lied, obstructed, blustered, bullshyted and generally lost a lot of (all) respect for himself and C church.
As well as being part of the problem in the first place !

Blame him as much as the priests themselves.

500N 27th May 2014 02:45

Alison beat me to it :ok:

parabellum 27th May 2014 02:59

Both allisoncc and 500N are still choosing to ignore the fact that the entire Catholic church cannot be tarred with the same brush, yet you continue, in your last post each, to do so. There are a lot, a whole lot of very good people in the Catholic church.


(Yes, I was baptised a Catholic and yes, I was interfered with by a Catholic priest, but that was back in the very early fifties and had I said anything I would have been thrashed for telling lies, that is how a ten year old thinks, they will never be believed).

Worrals in the wilds 27th May 2014 03:19


Worrals I appreciate your point of view, nevertheless the relocation of those involved still continues.
Roger, thanks.
Accept the point re Pell. I'm not a Pell Pot fan and neither are the two priests I know reasonably well.

had I said anything I would have been thrashed for telling lies, that is how a ten year old thinks, they will never be believed.
I'm glad to see this is now discussed with children as part of their education, because it's important. Although I think we all obsess about sex a bit too much these days, one of the upsides of that has been a willingness to address this issue with children, instead of shoving it under the rug and pretending that abusers don't exist. Or worse, punishing children for 'telling lies', which as you say was all too common.

500N 27th May 2014 03:32

It might come across that way but I don't tar all Catholics with the same brush. I just despise people like George Pell who IMHO should be in jail.

In fact, I so rarely talk of religion I wouldn't know who was what except
maybe Jewish for obvious reasons and the obvious Muslims, Sikhs etc.

alisoncc 27th May 2014 03:35

Parabellum, it's not the good people whom I do recognise as such, it's a doctrine that has and continues to cause immense suffering in places like Africa and South America. Much of the AIDS/HIV epidemic in Africa can be traced to the Catholic Church with it's anti-condom message.

I believe there is still a lot to be told of the Vatican's dealings with Nazi Germany during WWII. I have heard that some of the treasures confiscated from Jewish families found there way to the Vatican's vaults. At least Ratzinger, a once member of the Hitler Youth, has beeen deposed.

I was member of the Uniting Church for many many years and still look favourably on their enterprise. So I am not anti-religion. Hollingsworth was honourable enough to fall on his sword by resigning as GG, but Pell is most probably now ensconced in a swish apartment in Rome, living the high life, without a worry in the world. That is where my dislike is aimed.

BenThere 27th May 2014 04:07


Much of the AIDS/HIV epidemic in Africa can be traced to the Catholic Church with it's anti-condom message.
I disagree. The AIDS/HIV epidemic would not be possible if the tenets of the Catholic church were followed, a single sexual partner for life. Of course, that doesn't account for infections resulting from rape, but you can't pin the blame for that on the church, either.

alisoncc 27th May 2014 04:17


a single sexual partner for life.
And what parallel universe do you inhabit? One obviously significantly divorced from reality. Perhaps HIV/AIDS is seen as God's punishment for being promiscuous.

Ken Borough 27th May 2014 04:17


. That is where my dislike is aimed.
Now that that's out in the open, leave it that way and don't besmirch all other Catholics of all stations and walks of life with the same brush. That is just ignorance personified.

As for the culinary habits of the clergy and missionaries, why shouldn't they eat like the rest of their culture? And do you (1) know if those in Dublin were in fact Catholics?, (2) if the hearsay stories are factual? and (3) expect those who help the poor etc to live like the poor, or those who are missionaries expected to live like PNG indigenous folk? Get real! :ugh:

I am offended by the ignorance shown and sometimes the utter refusal to acknowledge that a PoV is so 'out of whack' with reality that it's wholly unacceptable. It really doesn't warrant the benefit if a comment but in this case I can't allow the ignorance and bigotry pass without comment. :{

We should really get back to politics! :ok:(

alisoncc 27th May 2014 04:20


We should really get back to politics! :ok:
Agree :ok: :ok: :ok:

BenThere 27th May 2014 04:21

No, I'm quite confident that is the doctrine of the Catholic church. It may not be so popular today, or even widely observed. But the more it is followed, the happier people would be. Do you disagree?

500N 27th May 2014 04:22

+ 1

:ok:


...............

Hempy 27th May 2014 04:33

Imho societies decline has a direct correlation with the decline of 'Christianity' (by that I mean all recognised religions, not just Catholic) in Aus. 100 years ago our children got their lifes 'moral guidance' from their parents, their teachers, and from the pulpit on Sundays. Now they get it from Britney and Jackass.

Yes, some Catholics are bad. The stats would say they have a badness ratio identical to any other religion in this country. The pure message of the church is a 'good' message, don't be so narrow minded to refuse to consider that.

Ken Borough 27th May 2014 05:16


don't be so narrow minded to refuse to consider that.
Never have truer words been writ in this thread!

The unfortunate thing is that narrowness of mind is not confined to religion. There's a lot of bigotry in many subjects but politics and religion head the list. I had a discussion with my GP recently. He was gob-smacked at the many narrow-minded people who consult him. He reckons that older people in particular get stuck at home listening to talk-back radio. They are sucked-in by the outrageous views of the shock-jocks, and eventually believe what is shouted at them, not just by the shock-jocks but by the wing-nuts who seem to be the staple that keeps them going. This may reinforce a pre-existing bias but does nothing to help retain an open, objective mind about life.

500N 27th May 2014 05:22

"The pure message of the church is a 'good' message, don't be so narrow minded to refuse to consider that."


Hempy

The problem is, a lot of people have switched off to ANY message from the church(es) so they don't hear anything or never put themselves in a position to hear a message.

I for one have not heard a message from the church since before leaving school. The only time I had to acknowledge the church, by choice was when I had soldiers under command and I had to lead by example.

Hempy 27th May 2014 05:28


Originally Posted by 500N (Post 8494702)
I for one have not heard a message from the church since before leaving school. The only time I had to acknowledge the church, by choice was when I had soldiers under command and I had to lead by example.

One of the messages is 'freedom of choice' ;-)

Ken Borough 27th May 2014 05:34

Mr N

Perhaps a visit to a nearby church, temple, mosque, synagogue, citadel - your choice - may well open your mind to a new way of thinking, just as your visit to the chicken and chip shop made you think differently about certain things! :ok:


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