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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

bosnich71 28th Apr 2014 03:13

Ref. those of "socialist" ideals at Uni who then move on into well paid jobs in the City etc. Those of you from UK and who are old enough may remember that dyed in the wool "socialist". Tariq Ali who led all the protests for a better world in the 1960s'. Problem being he was the well off son of a multi millionaire. Still a socialist though but doesn't get his hands dirty.
When I lived and WORKED in Cambridge in the mid to late 60s' it was a real pain the posterior to have to listen to all this b*****x every time I went out to the pub for a beer with the Missus.

rh200 28th Apr 2014 03:19


Maths and economics aren't the same thing, so I am not surprised that young mathematician shared the half-baked ideas of the Greens.
Totally agree, but some simple relational order of magnitude calculations will soon give you a soft on.:p

Worrals in the wilds 28th Apr 2014 03:48


Ref. those of "socialist" ideals at Uni who then move on into well paid jobs in the City etc.
I don't recall many who turned into raging, millionaire capitalists. I'm sure there were some (and it may well be different in the UK) but most of the people I remember stayed fairly lefty, albiet sometimes well paid lefties (such as lawyers, doctors or pollies). The majority went into the arts, teaching, public service or similar. The die hards who stuck with their ideals either went to The Greens or into the union movement, either voluntarily or as officials.

What I've noticed among today's teen and twenty-something lefties (and I mix with a few) is that fortunately the aspiration of bludging on the dole has died out. Even raging socialists want to get a job, albeit a lefty one. This is notably different from the 1990s socialist crowd I remember, where one organization wouldn't even let you join if you had a job :rolleyes:. Naturally they lost a lot of members to the Greens and ALP as people graduated and got employed, which is probably why they ended up folding.

Pinky the pilot 28th Apr 2014 04:55

Just changing the subject for a bit; One of the frontpage articles in the Weekend Australian made for interesting reading.

Rollout shambles in NBN's first state. With a sub header "2015 completion 'no chance'
''THE National Broadband Network rollout in Tasmania- which Labor promised would be the first state connected to lightning-fast internet services- has been "so shambolic" and failed "so abysmally" to meet its targets that urgent political intervention is needed."

Which just made me start thinking for a while and I came up with a question;

Did the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments actually achieve anything that was a success and of benefit to the Country in general? :confused:

I cannot think of anything!

500N 28th Apr 2014 05:02

"Did the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments actually achieve anything that was a success and of benefit to the Country in general?"

I can.

They shifted a lot of Australians from slightly left, centre to the right and those on the right even more so, the result being that they got thrown out and Tony Abbott elected !

That was a success and a benefit to the country :ok: :O

Pinky the pilot 28th Apr 2014 05:09

500N; Touche.:D

However, I think you know what I really meant.:D:}

chuboy 28th Apr 2014 05:16

Pinky: On the NBN - the rollout was no doubt stuffed up and delayed, but it was not all Labor's fault. Plenty of it was overly ambitious project planning, however a not-insignificant amount was due to negotiations with Telstra which went on for a long time. Had the NBN been completed (eventually) in the form that Labor intended it, I believe it would have gone on to be a very positive thing indeed as it is technologically the best thing available to us by a long shot, with proven room for improvement when it's needed.

What else... I have read some agreement (do you ever get complete agreement?) among economists that K-Rudd's stimulus package prevented Aus going into recession alongside the rest of the OECD. But with 20/20 hindsight who could ever be sure? I'm yet to be convinced economics is more than voodoo science anyway.

School halls was given a bad rap but there were plenty of institutions who genuinely benefited from getting a new building. And again there is the argument about keeping people in work during a downturn.

This is all for posterity's sake of course, in the end whether you agree or disagree with me will boil down to which paper you read at the time. I have learned that everyone who reads this thread has more or less made up their minds on most issues anyway. :E

500N 28th Apr 2014 05:20

"that K-Rudd's stimulus package prevented Aus going into recession alongside the rest of the OECD."

I think it helped.

Psychology (of the consumer) has a lot to do with it.



Pinky
I know what you meant as well :O and you are correct.

CoodaShooda 28th Apr 2014 05:38

If you read Senator Mark Bishop (Lab WA) in the Australian, the Rudd/Gillard Government was let down by the inability of the Public Sector to deliver their programs.

So, it wasn't "a good government that lost its way" after all.

It was "someone else's fault". :ugh:

Mind you, after 25 years working in government (don't laugh) and 16 years working in business, I wouldn't be relying on the public sector to deliver anything efficiently or effectively.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Apr 2014 06:17


If you read Senator Mark Bishop (Lab WA) in the Australian, the Rudd/Gillard Government was let down by the inability of the Public Sector to deliver their programs.
Riiiight. :hmm: Don't you love it when MPs get the wah-wahs post defeat? They sound like five year olds; 'It wasn't our fault, dolly did it! Dolly cost us the election, not our own P-Poor Performance! Bad dolly'! :bored:

If Rudd hadn't been such an arrogant cockhead to deal with he might have gotten a better reception from the public service. If his Ministers had shown some balls/ovaries and pulled him into line sooner, then the mess may have been reduced, if not removed entirely. As it was, Bishop et al sat on their hands. Instead of doing their jobs as MPs and pulling him on in Caucus, many of them nodded along only to run off to the press afterwards with tales about how Rudd was being mean to them :rolleyes:.

Their government's demise had little to do with the public service and everything to do with their own collective incompetence and inability to manage either leader. Sniping at the APS just makes it obvious that at least some of them are still living in denial. They'd win more friends if they just said 'We did the best we could and we thought we were doing the right thing, but it didn't work out and the voters didn't buy it.'

500N 28th Apr 2014 06:23

"if they just said 'We did the best we could and we thought we were doing the right thing, but it didn't work out and the voters didn't buy it.'"

Now that is wishful thinking if ever I heard it !

I don't think you will ever hear a Pollie and certainly
not a Labor one say that.

But that is my HO.


Worrals
Are you sure you mean Bishop ?????

Worrals in the wilds 28th Apr 2014 07:03

I was referring to the Party MPs collectively, and mentioned him by name because of his original quote that Cooda Shooda posted. He was part of that government and should take some responsibility for its demise instead of blaming the APS.

Saltie 28th Apr 2014 12:18

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Clive Palmer is giving Australians a preview of what we're in for if we are stupid enough to adopt the President by popular vote route should we ever ditch the Royals. The richest man wins, because there will always be enough dimwits out there who'll fall for the crap that's put on their TV screens most often - and vote for any politician promising free stuff.

Pinky the pilot 29th Apr 2014 00:47

And concerning Palmer; If the various comments in the Media over the last few months are correct and that his various businesses are not performing as well as could be, then just from where is all the money coming that he appears to throw about?:confused:

I seem to recall a recent article in the Australian asking just that question.:hmm:

Clare Prop 29th Apr 2014 01:52

I reckon he could make a few more bucks setting up an enclosure for former ALP MPs in his Dinosaur park.

For a few extra dollars he could put them in the stocks for the general public to throw rotten food at, that'd attract a crowd.

I like Palmer for the way he has brought an element of my favourite ever politician, Screaming Lord Sutch of the Monster Raving Looney party, into the horrible world of Australian politics.

alisoncc 29th Apr 2014 04:06


Clive Palmer is giving Australians a preview of what we're in for if we are stupid enough to adopt the President by popular vote route should we ever ditch the Royals. The richest man wins, because there will always be enough dimwits out there who'll fall for the crap that's put on their TV screens most often - and vote for any politician promising free stuff.
There is a precedence: - Thaksin Shinawatra and Silvio Berlusconi.

chuboy 29th Apr 2014 04:11

It seems voter's memories as regards a "modest levy" are not as short as Tony might have liked.

Tony Abbott's honesty pledge could founder on new deficit 'tax'

I don't have a problem with increasing revenue to deal with a structural deficit, but this one is hard to swallow served up next to tens of billions committed to unproven fighter jets and paid parental leave for any mother brave enough to line up at Centrelink :ouch:

Pinky the pilot 29th Apr 2014 04:20


Screaming Lord Sutch of the Monster Raving Looney party,
Who I believe met an untimely end, by his own hand IIRC.:sad:

Ken Borough 29th Apr 2014 04:24

Chuboy has forgotten to list a couple of the Coalition's own goals! Had they have allowed some of the previous governments reforms, the budgetary position today would have been much better than it is. Why did TA and his Noalition refuse to allow, inter alia,

1. abolition of the tax rebate paid by high-income earners for private health insurance?

2. closure of an FBT loophole with respect to fringe benefits?

There is plenty that Hockey can do to rectify the so-called 'Budget Emergency' without hitting those who can not only least afford it but who cannot be heard in the public square.

500N 29th Apr 2014 04:49

As much as I am an Abbott fan, I think he has made a few missteps lately
and pissed more than a few people off.


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