PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 13th Apr 2014 06:24

Re the abc, more than one way to skin a cat.

All Abbott needs to do is not increase funding for 4 years and this will effectively be cutting it.

And Hold them over a barrel saying no more funding until you live by how others live, no more I exemptions.

But I still think he will cut it. Too good an opportunity to miss.

500N 13th Apr 2014 06:26

Bo's

Re fuel, I can well believe it.

rh200 13th Apr 2014 07:22


Michael Smith's blog is reporting that an extra million litres of aviation fuel is being delivered to RAAF Base Pearce each day supplying those searching for MH370.
That would be ten triple road trains worth then, or there abouts. Up the count for doubles. Wonder how that translates in terms of state supplier in terms of kero used as a percentage.

Saltie 13th Apr 2014 08:38

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
I have also heard that since the search is in Australia's SAR zone, Australia is footing the fuel bill for all search aircraft. Some are saying that there's little actual extra cost as all the personnel would be paid anyway and it is good training (which of course it is), but the hidden bill is in the higher rate of hours flown and steaming hours for the ships. Maintenance schedules will be shot to s###, and al those aircraft and ships will need major servicing months if not years earlier than planned. This will I nvolve big dollars and major changes to training and operational schedules in the years ahead.

500N 13th Apr 2014 08:49

Saltie

It was mentioned by the ADF that some ships were supposed to be at sea anyway, just retasked to the SAR effort instead of AS boats.

Someone else mentioned that at the end of the year, the total flight hours of the P3's etc might well be the same as a normal year.

Either way, damn good operational training and experience all round,
especially working with the other countries.

Worrals in the wilds 13th Apr 2014 10:22

Fair go.
They're looking for a bunch of dead people whose relatives are spending every day in the living hell of Not Knowing. People who did what we've all done in the past and will do in the future; taken a commercial flight operated by a well-regarded airline.

To quote Ghostbusters (why not :\) we have the tools, we have the talent (but it's never Miller time; Little Creatures would be much nicer :}). Surely there's enough money in the tin to help out here, and if not then it's not the Australia I think it is.

If an Australian aircraft went down in Chinese or US waters we'd expect them to get out there and look for it. Same applies in this case. I hope our guys/girls find the bloody thing, the Yanks or the Chinese get the FDR/CVR up and we can work out what happened so it doesn't happen to an aircraft that has one of our rellies on board.


Either way, damn good operational training and experience all round, especially working with the other countries.
Exactly. You can train using fake emergencies all you like but it's not the same as the real thing. Everyone involved will learn from this, and it will make our people all the better for the next one, which might just have a VH or ZK in the rego :(. Like the recent San Fran incident, everyone worldwide will learn too, and tweak their procedures so they're a little better and a little more effective. If that means footing the bill for the jetfuel then so be it; it's not like it happens every week.

Saltie 13th Apr 2014 11:00

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Worrals, what scares the bejesus out of me is that the Muzzie extremists, having seen the way the world had s reacted to this, might try to stage one every bloody week.

Worrals in the wilds 13th Apr 2014 11:45

Fair enough, though IIRC the response to the meeja from the Taliban spokespeople was something like 'yeah, we wish we'd done it.' :sad::ugh:

If this was the result of a terrorist action (and no-one has claimed it) then it's beneficial to establish that, not leave it in the realms of fantasy and CVR eating sharks. Far better to establish the truth, even if it requires a lot of jet A1 and APS O/T.

500N 13th Apr 2014 12:00

Worrals

It's interesting that in the past couple of years, China, Aus and NZ have held joint exercises together to do with emergency response etc (and all the scenarios that entails, working out how to work better together) and blow me dead, this comes along which I am sure is a hell of a lot easier because of those exercises between the two militaries and the 3 services.

This just "ups the tempo" a bit and exposes a larger group.

I thought it interesting the other week that China has requested that they come under Australian Command for that US based exercise. I will wait and see if it's true because it wasn't widely reported and I wonder how much of the story was journalistic license.

The other interesting thing is hosting by Australia of the Chief of Staff and other senior ranks from China over here every year, especially when Angus Houston was CDF. That is likely to make the any potential issues be easier to deal with.

rh200 13th Apr 2014 12:18

Yea I have a few friends moaning about how much is it going to cost. Frankly even if it costs us a 100 million or so its well worth it.

1) it sets a really good example, even though I think some countrys wouldn't

2) Its the morally right thing to do (yea piss poor reason in practice)

3) We really need to find out what the [email protected]#k happened.

4) The good will from the Chinese perspective is a good thing.

5) The international interactions are good. I see there have already been several firsts. I'm wondering if a Chinese ship has ever been resupplied by an American one? If not here's hoping.

Worrals in the wilds 13th Apr 2014 12:35


It's interesting that in the past couple of years, China, Aus and NZ have held joint exercises together to do with emergency response etc (and all the scenarios that entails, working out how to work better together) and blow me dead, this comes along which I am sure is a hell of a lot easier because of those exercises between the two militaries and the 3 services.
It is.
Literally a Barry Crocker (ie a shocker), as sung by Barry. :E
We all live together. Periodically we all endure natural and man made disasters. Politics is politics and religion is religion, but at the end of the day we all live next door to each other and IMO when the chips are down, we should all help each other out.

After the dust has settled then the pollies can get back to being political, the various national media can nod along like drunken bridesmaids and the priests/mullahs can rail against infedels/heretics, but in the meantime us ordinary people share an ocean, natural disasters like cyclones and earthquakes and man made disasters like the missing MH flight. Whoever we are and wherever we are, I think that we all would like to find out what happened.

5) The international interactions are good. I see there have already been several firsts. I'm wondering if a Chinese ship has ever been resupplied by an American one? If not here's hoping.
There is a common ground, so agree; here's hoping.

Saltie 15th Apr 2014 09:00

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Am I the only one who feels Tony Abbott's PR team is 'playing' the public as they talk up his international profile?

Captain Dart 15th Apr 2014 09:39

Meanwhile, the other war in Australia rumbles on...

Brawl erupts outside Sydney court

Ken Borough 15th Apr 2014 10:50


Am I the only one who feels Tony Abbott's PR team is 'playing' the public as they talk up his international profile?
No. His team of spinners is working overtime, but they won't let anyone think for a minute that most of the hard yards done in respect of the Japanese and South Korean agreements were put in by the previous government. These agreements are complex and take years of negotiation. Anyone who believes that it was all the work of the Abbott Govt is really an ignoremus!

As for the yet to be completed negotiations with the PRC, why kind of dim-wit tells the other side that he wants an agreement by such-and-such date, especially when time is not of the essence? This 'ultimatum' of Abbott's will only encourage the Chinese to really screw us.

Ovation 15th Apr 2014 10:58


However,as Saltie said,you've had a go,and good on you, now it's time to give your fingers ... or is that finger ? ... a rest.
Not just his fingers that need a rest - I think he should let go of that other thing he's gripping before his arm becomes sore.....

rh200 15th Apr 2014 11:36


Am I the only one who feels Tony Abbott's PR team is 'playing' the public as they talk up his international profile?
Umm, isn't that their job, they do the same on both sides.

Saltie 15th Apr 2014 18:27

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
I have to admit that I think Ken has a point. For years now, the so-called 'level playing field' of the global economy has been anything but level for Australia. Australia ( both sides of politics when in government) has given up jobs and whole industries in Australia in the pursuit of free trade (there's no such thing - self interest rules) while the other signatories smile benignly and tilt the #### playing field steeply in their favour with some hidden clause not covered by the agreement. The Yanks have been among the worst offenders, but the Chinese and Japanese are right up there too.

CoodaShooda 16th Apr 2014 01:44

Gotta love that NSW ICAC, the gift that keeps on giving.

O'Farrell gone over a bottle of second rate Grange. He needs lessons from labor on how to brazen out an indefensible situation. :hmm:

Cue all the libs coming out to praise him for his "honourable" action of resigning when caught out. :yuk:

Saltie 16th Apr 2014 01:50

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
I suspect that particular bottle of Grange will end up costing Barry O'Farrell a lot more than $3000. I suspect there will also be a lot of people in the NSW Libs who won't be all that upset to see him go. He's too wet by far for the right wing of the Libs.

Ken Borough 16th Apr 2014 02:37

There's a saying that NSW has the best police force money can buy. Perhaps that expression should extend to politicians though I hasten to add that there'd no evidence yet that O'Farrell actually did anything that was thought to be corrupt. It appears that his memory failed him and as a result he's lied to the ICAC. In those circumstances, he had to go.

On a broader front, although most if not all of the States have their version of ICAC, it's interesting to note that such a watchdog does not form part of the Commonwealth landscape. In my view, such a body is required but neither party would have the political will to introduce a body designed to weed out corrupt and other undesirable practices. Rorting travelling expenses as a starter comes to mind!


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:23.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.