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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 12:20

Ken, glad to see that,in this instance at least,you are probably on the side of the majority on this blog.There's hope for you yet.( even if you are a Sydney supporter).

rh200 27th Mar 2014 12:31

It will be "Earth Hour" this Saturday evening so I urge everyone who does not subscribe to this Greenie nonsense to switch on all their house lights,all electrical appliances,central heating etc. and just celebrate electricity generated from good old coal.
Sniff sniff, I'm amongst kindered spirits, was waiting for some of my lefty mates to mention it so could say the following.

All lights, do the washing, turn both reverse cycles on and set to 15 degrees, go for a drive in my 100 series and really give it to her, and keep the lights on high beam as much as possible. The when I get home switch the aircons to warm as it will be to cold. Might even turn the bore on for longer than normal give the lawns areal good drenching.

Waiting to post that on my face book page as all friends I have on the are extremist uni types:p Should be good for a bite.

chuboy 27th Mar 2014 12:59

Pretty immature =/ climate change or not, one need only look at China to see why cheap energy from coal is hardly something to prance around celebrating. No such thing as a free lunch and you definitely pay for coal power one way or another. I get most of you don't exactly love the environment but it's pretty ignorant to think humans exist independently of it. Pollute the air with particulates and mother nature will gladly give you and your children cancer in return. Food for thought perhaps while you're loudly making your point during earth hour (I thought only lefties did that?)

Clare Prop 27th Mar 2014 17:33

What do they do in NZ ? They have Dame Kiri Te Kanawa so there's at least one.

And we have Sir Les Patterson and Dame Edna :bored:

All seems a bit odd but at least he's not doing the UK thing of dishing out peerages to politicians who have lost their seats and putting unelected life peers in the upper house along with unelected bishops. It's all beginning to sound like a game of chess.

500N 27th Mar 2014 17:49


Don' disagree that a trade off exists but "Green power" also has costs,
higher in some cases and not subsidised.

Unregulated power like China where they have no controls, yes, well.

"I get most of you don't exactly love the environment"
Scaring the landscape installing towers in once pristine land is acceptable to the Greens because it is wind power.

IMHO, the greens compromise principles more when it comes to what is acceptable and what is not when it concerns green Power. The huge solar panel array on the border of California / Nevada being a good example.
Yes, I understand "environmental studies" need to be done but more development doesn't go ahead because of some potential damage to the some "rare" species than does but when it comes to the Greens doing something, if it is to do with Green power, "oh, that's ok".

MTOW 27th Mar 2014 21:00

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
Maybe Abbott was playing his version of realpolitik with this knights and dames rubbish in trying - more or less successfully - to get the public's attention diverted away from Arthur Sidonidis and George Brandis. If Krudd and Julia Gillard were to be 'elevated' to some such title, there would be more than a few unkind parallels drawn to Sir Les and Dame Edna. Rather accurately, in my opinion.

BenThere 27th Mar 2014 21:33

I get most of you don't exactly love the environment
Your first mistake.

What I don't love is forking over billions of taxpayer dollars to the likes of you to waste on Quixotic, unfounded boondoggles.

Your lot just about killed the nuclear power industry, the Greenest solution we have.

So now you want to kill the coal industry in Australia. Tell you what, Grasshopper, the coal will go to China and they'll burn it. You don't want a piece of the action? Good for you. I'll take it.

500N 27th Mar 2014 21:47

BenThere - agree, never quite understood why the Greens opposed Nuclear when it doesn't give off gases !!!

The Greens, stifle anything to do with development. Here is an example.

Many years ago, when I used to catch and band wading birds at Werribee,
Avalon and Point Wilson. Now, some may know that the rare Orange Bellied Parrot *the bird Kennett called a trumped up Corella !) comes over and feeds along this stretch of coastline, often on the Salt Bush that is prolific.

One of the guys was doing a study (PhD) on the OBP so we were catching them. At Point Wilson, which for those who don't know is where explosives were stored, it is all flat grass and Salt Bush with sheep to keep the grass short.

Now, in the report, when it was realised the sheep were in the OBP habitat, all hell broke lose, can't have that, damage the environment where the OBP were :rolleyes:. Sheep removed. OBP pissed off somewhere else.

Why ?
Sheep nibbled on the Salt Bush, Salt bush grew new shoots, OBP loved eating the new growth, had been going on for years, everyone happy - except the Greens !!!

In my view, very rarely do they look at the whole picture.

As it was, Coode Island Chemical plant wasn't moved to Pt Wilson !

Another one was Werribee foreshore, the terns nested on the spit (they like more open areas with few bushed) but the bushes grew up and they didn't like it, the Silver gulls moved in and kicked the terns out !!!. Someone ;) decided to pull up every 2nd and 3rd bush to make it more like the terns liked. Terns came back the following and subsequent years and set up the colony again. Some "greenies" didn't like it but the terns are rare compared to the Silver Gulls !!!

RJM 27th Mar 2014 22:04

BenThere - agree, never quite understood why the Greens opposed Nuclear when it doesn't give off gases !!!
Quite understandable. Nuclear is symbolic of USA. USA is the Great Satan Military/Industrial Object Of Hatred. Therefore, nuclear is bad, whatever its green credentials.

It's not really about the waste issue, IMHO. Think 'If she weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch'.

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 22:04

Chuboy .....I do worry about the environment but fail to see how turning lights off in the Melbourne CBD for an hour and then turning them on again immediately after makes much sense.Perhaps turning them all off for a month or so might be a better option. Then again that would probably be the death knell for any future Greenie ambitions.

500N 27th Mar 2014 22:17


Doesn't Melbourne's power work on abase load system and only when it goes above this doe the Williamstown Power station "kick in" ?

Yep, Green often equals small minded !

chuboy 27th Mar 2014 23:46

Originally Posted by BenThere (Post 8405153)
What I don't love is forking over billions of taxpayer dollars to the likes of you to waste on Quixotic, unfounded boondoggles.

Your lot

So now you

Wow, so a person can't even acknowledge that coal is a dirty fuel source without being a red-blooded socialist?

I'm far from being a greenie loon so keep the ad hominem arguments to yourself. I'm pro-nuclear and as it happens my job directly assists the oil and gas industry in getting the best bang for buck producing their hydrocarbon assets. In fact I'm pro-CSG too so I guess that makes Alan Jones more of a greenie than me. Furthermore I also agree that the anti-development movement has been given too strong a voice in Australia, what with the endless consultation periods with "community stakeholders" and other fluffy social science work.

If you look at the light rail project on the Gold Coast, there's a beautiful irony that the NIMBYs and anti-developers having too much say about the effect of construction on their businesses and quality of life is the reason that the project has been so drawn out. They didn't want round-the-clock construction so yes, the same people are now whinging about how the road works have been going on for ages. And you're right, no matter what you try and build someone will find a new species of square-mouthed frog or shell-less snail that absolutely must be conserved to maintain the balance in the delicate ecosystem. But, it's a fact of life now and the equally ironic thing is big businesses brought it upon themselves because they couldn't be socially and environmentally responsible in the first place - then the people compelled politicians to act and create regulation. But I digress...

No one actually thinks turning off all the lights at once is going to reverse climate change, so it's irrelevant to even suggest that. The point is about making people conscious of how much electricity they use and whether they really need to use it. Whatever your views on climate change, wasting energy (and/or polluting the environment) is just cutting off your nose to spite your face in the end.

My view is that renewable sources like solar and wind will never be viable on a large scale in the foreseeable future, particularly without better power storage to protect against calm/dark periods. Then there are other sources like tidal which are a long way from being commercially ready and are not going to solve the world's energy problems even in the best case.

Interesting that China and India are backing off coal and investing LSTR nuclear. LSTR is an extremely promising type of power generation and I can 100% guarantee Australia will miss the opportunity to develop the expertise domestically and become pioneers of the technology, which we could then sell to the world. Another country with the gall to say no to the anti-nuclear detractors and actually spend a bit of money on scientific research will get that worm and more than likely, when the commercial pilots are successful and the community attitude to nuclear changes, we will be forced to pay big bucks for it (or continue "scarring the environment" with coal mines and power plants).

500N 27th Mar 2014 23:54

Nuclear makes sense in this country as we have the raw fuel, we have ports to ship it out and back, we have heaps of open spaces to put a power plant a long way from most people but close enough to the market and the coast / sea that we can bring fuel rods in without too much trouble.

But it will be a long time before any of that happens !

Re Tidal power, I'd love to know if any studies have been done on the Rip
and if that is a suitable location.

chuboy 28th Mar 2014 00:12


Had a quick search through the library I have access to at work and found a number of references to tidal power pilot projects at Port Phillip, dating back to 2007 and 2011. Like all things if you want the private sector to do it the economic climate has to be right which explains why years later nothing has been done.

Tidal Power To Be Trialed in Powerful Australian Waters | CleanTechnica

In a time before powerful and technologically advanced computers, and possibly still to this day with all that equipment, a trained ‘pilot’ was given the reins of any vessel that attempted to pass through the Port Phillip Heads, into Port Phillip Bay, in Melbourne, Australia. The reason was because of the powerful rip tide that connects Port Phillip Bay to Bass Strait.

Now Singapore company Atlantis Power Resources is looking at that very same rip as a possible location for water turbines that could feasibly power up to a thousand homes.

Tidal power is not a new technology. Making use of tides that are in all reality, “as regular as clockwork”, is more reliable than wind or solar, cleaner than coal, and much less contested than nuclear power. And Atlantis has been testing a turbine in Corio Bay, one of numerous bays in the southwest corner of Australia’s Port Phillip Bay. Their plans, if approved, would see two such turbines used in The Rip.

The Rip is sometimes described by many sailors as one of the most dangerous shipping paths on the planet. At times, the height of the water between the Bay and Bass Strait can be as much as five meters, and thus a common site is witnessing a mass of water flow from one side to the other. In fact, during every tide, 4% of Port Phillip Bay’s 25 cubic kilometers volume of water – a cubic kilometer of water – is exchanged from side to side.

However, despite Atlantis’ claims that its systems are not only silent and out of mind, but environmentally clean, are not quieting people’s fears. Environmentalists have already been angered over dredging in Port Phillip, deepening channels to allow for larger ships to be admitted to the ports, and are now ready to turn their attention towards tidal power in The Rip. This once again shows the naivety, ignorance and preponderance of knee-jerk reactions that makes it hard to make any environmentally friendly advancement’s in Australia.

Nevertheless, the idea is an interesting one, and one that could – if allowed to proceed – provide for a growth in the tidal power industry, and a new avenue of renewable electricity generation.

Read more at Tidal Power To Be Trialed in Powerful Australian Waters | CleanTechnica

500N 28th Mar 2014 00:20


Thanks, interesting. Doesn't surprise me that the Greens would / are likely to oppose it.

It is one hell of a stretch of water and you really do feel yourself being pulled along at a huge rate. In fact, I have on occasion found it hard to "hold onto a rock" on the bottom when the tide is going full pelt.

We also did a drift dive to one side and when we got to the end, we all surfaced. It had only taken about 15 - 20 minutes because the tide was a bit stronger than anticipated. I remember that dive as I saw a china plate, went to grab it and was passed it before my hand got anywhere near it :rolleyes: :O

SOPS 28th Mar 2014 03:52

500, agree, the Greens are against any development. They won't be happy to we are all back living in caves, literally!

PinkusDickus 28th Mar 2014 03:59

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus...

Corrupt former union boss Michael Williamson has been jailed for a minimum of five years.

In sentencing Williamson to 7˝ years in jail with a five-year non-parole period, District Court judge David Frearson said Williamson's actions were "a parasitic plundering of union funds for pure greed".

The frauds were calculated, brazen and arrogant and involved an "extreme" breach of trust, the judge said.

Read more: Michael Williamson jailed for Health Services Union fraud

CoodaShooda 28th Mar 2014 04:03

Given what he is accused of having really done, that is a very light sentence. :mad:

Captain Sand Dune 28th Mar 2014 05:21

Dunno - I wouldn't fancy five years in the big house. And at his age I don't think he'll enjoy the experience.
Williamson in jail, Thompson dodging it, Rudd before a Senate committee trying to bluff his way out of a policy decision that killed people - not looking good for Liabour and the union movement.
I reckon Julya would be keeping her head down! Don't hear her God-awful drawl much these days.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Mar 2014 05:26

If you look at the light rail project on the Gold Coast, there's a beautiful irony that the NIMBYs and anti-developers having too much say about the effect of construction on their businesses and quality of life is the reason that the project has been so drawn out. They didn't want round-the-clock construction so yes, the same people are now whinging about how the road works have been going on for ages.
There was constant round the clock construction on the light rail project, trust me :zzz:. No-one will be able to sleep when the concrete cutters take their buzz saws away and the tipper trucks stop dumping gravel; we've all gotten so used to it. :\:}

One of the big reasons for delays (and now a court case I believe) was the enormous number of unmarked utilities under the track's path, particularly through Southport. From what I heard there were several high pressure water mains that apparently no-one know about but needed re-routing :eek:, along with power, water and sewerage pipes that weren't on the plans or picked up in the initial surveys.

Otherwise, I agree with pretty much everything else you said. My issue with the whole Earth Hour thing is that it's totally useless, and nothing more than a gesture. AFAIK the power stations don't shut down a turbine, so there's no actual saving, and no reduction in coal consumption. I certainly agree that we should be using less power, but I don't think Earth Hour is the best way to promote this. It just confuses people even further about how energy generation and distribution works.

My main issue with nuclear power is that through work experience I've seen both 1. how the government run large assets :ouch: and 2. how the private sector runs large assets :ouch::ouch: when the government decide to get a quick cash injection and accountability by-pass by selling them off to their shonky corporate mates.

I don't know that I'd trust either group to run a church picnic, let alone a nuclear power plant. It's a great source of clean energy, but they're ugly when they go wrong, as the poor ol' Japanese have found out the hard way. The tidal thing sounds interesting; I believe they're now using it quite a bit in the UK??

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