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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Worrals in the wilds 13th Mar 2014 08:22

I also find myself wondering what percentage of the population agree with his rather forcefully stated sentiments?
Some. I think many more agree with parts of it, because he's painting with a very broad brush. He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but Malaysia and Indonesia are both Muslim countries (though not in the ME) and they're civilised places. I have been to Turkey, and while it has its issues I wouldn't call it violent or ungovernable; certainly no more than Spain. Likewise the various Emirates and Tunisia.

Last time I looked, the Muslim community is the only ethnic group to have its own dedicated police task force,
That is incorrect. At one stage Qld Police (and probably others) had a Vietnamese task force, and criminal Italians have got 'special' treatment from most state police forces in times gone by. Likewise the Romanians in the 1980s, some of who turned up with a penchant for car theft and standover rackets. The ABC's series 1992 Phoenix (one of the best cop shows ever made IMO, Australian or otheriwise) dramatised that issue very well.

I'd have to look it up to be sure, but IIRC there was a specific Irish crimes squad (to borrow a modern word) in Sydney prior to federation. Ethnic crime existed in Australia long before the Lebanese turned up and will probably continue to exist before it gets assimilated by the home grown crime scene, as has happened with the Italians and Vietnamese.

Like most normal people in the community I have trouble in establishing just what planet it is you live on!
I think that's a winner!

In other news, good outcome for the Morcombes; guilty.
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Well done to the coppers. Unfortunately whatever the sentence is won't be enough, IMO.

galdian 13th Mar 2014 10:01

As always I enjoy reading worrals thoughts - one of the better balanced voices on a great thread! :ok:

The letter does make broad strokes, maybe things could be easier if a more simplistic "Yes/No" question poll technique were employed:

- Should Australia have a right to control its sovereignity/borders?? Y/N

- Has Australia been well served in the past with Immigration/assimilation based on regionalism (ie Chinese, Europeans etc) ?? Y/N

- Will Immigration based on Religion-ism improve Australia?? Y/N

- Will the next world conflict be based on religion rather than politics?? Y/N

Etc, etc - you get the drift.

I suspect those who can think (now THERE's a question!) in the Ozzie population can only wonder why Australia is changing (and not for the better IMHO!), why this is being allowed/pushed by certain persons....and why they want to destroy Australia??

Cheers all!

Andu 13th Mar 2014 11:13

Can we take it as a given that there are a fair to large number of luminaries of the Left who want to see quite radical changes to Australian society? Particularly, it would seem, those of the female persuasion who label themselves as feminists.

If this is true - (some might argue that it isn't - but I for one don't agree with them) - what I can't get my head around, particularly in regard to the feminists, is the way they champion causes and newcomers to Australian society whose agendas - in no way hidden, but blatantly displayed - are totally antipathetic, even hostile, to everything feminists stand for.

The only phrase that comes to mind is WTF? What am I missing? I know the old truism 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' applies, but do these people of the Left hate the status quo so much that they think they'll be able to control the radical Muslims (who they seem unable to criticise in any circumstances, no matter how outrageously they might behave) after they replace the current status quo with their 'new' Australia?

Does Sarah Hanson-Young really believe she won't be sent packing to the kitchen in the brave new Australia she seems hellbent on creating with her fanciful immigration policy?

Worrals in the wilds 13th Mar 2014 11:29

Cheers. :ok:
In answer to your poll, purely my HO as always...

- Should Australia have a right to control its sovereignity/borders?? Y/N
Yes. The Migration Act provides that right, although being a signatory to the Geneva Convention muddies it. IMO it would be better for Australia not to be a signatory but continue to accept refugees on our own terms, as per India and the US.

- Has Australia been well served in the past with Immigration/assimilation based on regionalism (ie Chinese, Europeans etc) ?? Y/N
Yes. Largely the wogs, chows and so on have become Australians. It's now common to see people with surnames like Boubetra or O'Riordan involved with Keep Australia Australian campaigns, which is kind of amusing :E. No doubt there will be Australians with surnames like Chang or Mbusa on similar committees in future, which is probably a good thing. :\

- Will Immigration based on Religion-ism improve Australia?? Y/N
No. However, has that happened? Immigration statistics show that most immigrants are still coming from the UK and New Zealand, followed by Chinese and Indians. The Indians (mainly Hindu) are a classic case of religious immigration by stealth; they outnumber Muslim migrants but no-one really notices them. They don't demand that Australian society kowtows to their wishes, but quietly run businesses and restaurants that cater to their religious beliefs in between making friends and fitting in.

Likewise, many Muslim Australians don't make a big deal about their religion; they're happy to do their thing. I believe they have been hijacked by a noisy minority of troublemakers, and our own PC huggy types have enabled those troublemakers. Every Christmas the media run some tired old story about Christmas carols being banned in schools, and every Christmas the local Islamic Council gets on the telly saying it wasn't them who started it. A lot of PC rubbish gets propogated in the name of Islam by non-Islamic agitators.

- Will the next world conflict be based on religion rather than politics?? Y/N
Who knows? Politics has largely been trumped by the almighty dollar/pound/yuan/ruble. It's no longer profitable to go to war. Of course it never was, as Europe and the UK learned the hard way post WWI and II :ouch:. Fortunately (so far :hmm:) the civilised world has realised this, and our respective governments limit their conflict to media bitch-fights and evicting embassy staff. Long may it last...

What has been seen in the ME is that the Arab world talks big, but when push comes to shove they're happy to leave their Muslim brothers to sink or swim. There was no orgnanized response to either Gulf War, no-one came to help the Egyptian government and they all turned their backs on Gaddafi when he was shot like a dog, which is what he deserved.

If there's to be a world conflict, who's playing? The Arabs??? So far they've been a big no show. Terrorism is the coward's answer to conflict and groups within the Arabic nations have sponsored that, but what have they achieved? A few civilian deaths, but nothing on the losses from WWI/II. They talk big, and maybe they claim a few hundred every now and again (which is a few hundred too many :sad:) but are they a serious threat, compared to the Germans or the Japanese in 1940? Get outta here, you crazy kids. :zzz:

Every time they blow up an aircraft or a building they alienate another swag of Muslim moderates, and if we're smart, we capitalise on that. We get their best and brightest; the people who want to leave and make a better life in a fair place. I catch a lot of cabs and I'm naturally talkative :}, so I've heard a few stories; stories about guys who work twelve hour driving shifts so their wives can study at university, stories from men who fled Iraq so they could make a go of it, stories from people who are so grateful to come to Australia.

If we're dumb, then we push them into the 'for us or against us' position, and that never ends well. IMO it's far better to reach out to the reasonable people. It largely worked wrt Ireland and their terrorists, and I don't see why this situation is so different.

A few months ago (prior to the last federal election) I caught a cab. The driver was an Iraqi Australian, about my age and (as it turned out) Kevin Rudd's Number One Fan :uhoh:. We got stuck in traffic and chatted about politics, and he made an interesting observation. I had said that no matter how bad our government was, we always had the option of throwing them out; that no Australian government had imprisoned dissidents or seized power.

He said; "No, Australians are too tough for that. They would not stand for it". I thought it was an interesting comment from a new Australian; a Muslim Australian who proudly told me that he had become a citizen (and may or may not have been recruited into politics :}).

We have fears of an Arab invasion, but I don't know that those fears are justified. Whatever happens or will happen in the UK or Europe is irrelevant; we are not the UK or Europe. We are our own country. IMO we are right to be cautious about new immigrants (as we always have been) but we should be careful not to shut out people who will enhance our community just because they eat weird stuff and look funny, as the Italians, Greeks, Viets and Chinese have already done.

Fair go. Fair go for the cabbie even if he likes Rudd :\, Fair go for anyone who wants to be an Australian. For the people who don't, then there's the airport and :mad: off. For those who do, then surely there's room for Ramadan parties alongside Lent, St George's Day and Buddha's birthday.

CoodaShooda 13th Mar 2014 12:04


Are you sure you are really a labor supporter? :confused::p

(Beautifully put, by the way. :ok::ok:)

500N 13th Mar 2014 14:15

"Does Sarah Hanson-Young really believe she won't be sent packing to the kitchen in the brave new Australia she seems hellbent on creating with her fanciful immigration policy?"

She wouldn't know or thinks it would be all beautiful.

That email to Two dads, he got the dumb greens bit right and that lovely sentence !!!.

SOPS 13th Mar 2014 17:00

Hi everyone, been busy flying the friendly skies, and have my attention diverted by the MAS disaster. Just a quick question, any boats reported reasontly? If not, maybe we are getting somewhere, and Two Dads will become even less relevant.

Regards to you all.

500N 13th Mar 2014 19:28

No, no boats that I can remember.

Have a read a couple of articles recenty re the Abbott AS policy and that "we can do it more "humanely", straight after a sentence where said policy was "designed to stop boats and save lives by stopping the drownings".

So they are now mentioning the policy as stopping boats AND drownings but splitting hairs saying it could all be done a better way.

WTF, they just can't give credit where credit is due and won't really acknowledge that the policy has worked and that Labor was killing so may more people.

bosnich71 13th Mar 2014 22:34

Don't know about Muslims in Australia but I hope the government keeps Gypsies out after reading report from U.K. this morning .......
a man was found,in a distressed state, wandering along a road outside Middleborough minus his "manhood". The suspicion is that the bloke had been sleeping with a gypsy's girlfriend.

7x7 14th Mar 2014 00:08

Another rant from Pat Condell which equally applies here in Australia.


MTOW 14th Mar 2014 12:14

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
I can't believe someone up Bradford way hasn't put a fatwa out on Pat Condell.

Andu 16th Mar 2014 02:19

South Australians seem to have returned a Labor State (possibly minority) Government despite a 52%+ primary vote to the Libs.

500N 16th Mar 2014 03:01

Same as happened last time then.

SA really needs a Lib Gov't this time around.

Just like Tasmania.

Note re Tas - another example of Labour and Greens cocking up a state,
hindering any sort of development that it goes backwards.

CoodaShooda 16th Mar 2014 03:40

Less than 70% of the SA vote counted, with 160,000 postals and pre-polls to come.

It should keep us mildly interested for a couple of weeks.

7x7 16th Mar 2014 05:24

The Greens leader in Taswegia was a bit of a worry, predicting that the Greens would be the majority Opposition. Even when his Party was wiped like a dirty bum, he still prattled on as though they'd won some sort of victory. Then again, he is Green, and they do live in a permanent fantasy land.

Giddings' "concession" speech will probably be studied for years in universities as an example of how not to make a concession speech. But then again, maybe not when you consider who runs most political courses in Australian universities. Maybe I should re-phrase that. If Laura Giddings had been a conservative politician, her truly awful concession speech would be cited for decades to come as an example of how not to make a concession speech.

I know that a how a politician looks on camera should not be a factor in how you regard that politician, and particularly a female politician, but I couldn't help but feel, as politically incorrect as it may be, that she does not have the look required of a successful politician in this age of television. Standing by for howls of protest, which I probably deserve, but the fact remains, she just does not look to be a very impressive person - or maybe it was just that dreadful bloody speech.

Captain Sand Dune 16th Mar 2014 05:34

Less than 70% of the SA vote counted, with 160,000 postals and pre-polls to come.
Cue the 'disappearance' of a coupla thousand votes then:E

500N 16th Mar 2014 05:47


"I know that a how a politician looks on camera should not be a factor in how you regard that politician, and particularly a female politician, but I couldn't help but feel, as politically incorrect as it may be, that she does not have the look required of a successful politician in this age of television."

not too sure if you remember a pollie name White in Victoria, a bald, egg head shaped head guy in charge of Health. As you said, did not look like a successful pollie.

However, a member of my family who worked for him said he was a good leader, had a great sense of humour and good personal skills but of course the media never let that come across.

What you say is true in today's world.

What little I have seen of the Greens leader in Tas has not impressed me.

7x7 16th Mar 2014 06:43

To (apparently) shoot my original argument down, I understand that one of the better and most able politicians to grace British politics in the 20th century was Alec Douglas-Hume. It is said he would never have made it thirty years later because he is not have either the face nor the voice for television - but that did not mean he wasn't a very good leader of the country.

Bill Clinton and Barak Obama are two glaring examples of politicians/(actors) who look good on camera and can speak their lines well - but who really, were/are terrible leaders. (But because they look and sound good, a lot of voters think they're wonderful.) Some, on the other side of politics, would lump Ronald Reagan in with them. I would disagree. Although (literally) and actor who could deliver his lines well, unlike Clinton and Obama, he actually had some substance - although I'm sure some will violently disagree with that.

Giddings, in my opinion, has been severely short changed by Nature in both departments - she neither looks (nor sounds) good on camera and nor does she have any substance or true leadership abilities like Alec Douglas-Hume. A bit like another recent "leeder" of the female persuasion in the Labar Pardee, I doubt very much if she would even have achieved any position of leadership had she been male.

500N 16th Mar 2014 06:51

Agree re Gillard. She got there by the Labor factions and a bit of chance being in the right place at the right time with no other natural leaders
to step up over here - plus of course Rudd making a dick of a PM.

Captain Sand Dune 16th Mar 2014 09:21

So the tree huggers, NIMBYs and dole bludgers are revolting.

THOUSANDS of people have turned out in capital cities across Australia to protest against the Abbott Government’s policies on climate change, asylum seekers, marriage equality, education funding, indigenous rights and more.
The grassroots March in March movement, which claimed to be a nonpartisan peaceful protest, was organized largely through social media.
In Melbourne, parents, students, environmentalists, refugee supporters, cab drivers, teachers and children gathered in the heart of the city to tell the federal government they are not happy. The Melbourne chapter of the nationwide March in March featured speeches on indigenous
Unions were present, as were ordinary families. Shauna Burstin and daughter Mikhayla, eight, came to express their support for same-sex marriage. Blackburn couple Dyan and Andrew brought their three kids Dylan, Harper and Marlo because they thought it was important to teach their children not to stay silent if they don't agree with the government.
“I'm not going to treat refugees as second-class citizens,” Dyan told AAP. “I've never been moved as much by any other government in my life as this to protest.” Seventeen thousand people said on Facebook they would attend the Melbourne event and 11,700 said they would march in Sydney.
Canberra organizer Loz Lawrey said the event, which started as a conversation between a handful of people on Facebook in January, now has more than 45,000 supporters.
Victoria Police said they weren't expecting 17,000 protesters for the Melbourne rally but had allocated resources to the event.
A man collapsed in Brisbane following a march through the city to protest against Tony Abbott and the Queensland government’s “police state” crackdown on bikies. After marching through central Brisbane, a man fell to the ground on George Street and required an ambulance. Before the march, the loudest jeering from the crowd of about 2000 came when event organizer Matt Donovan, a former Labor candidate, denounced Immigration Minister Scott Morrison’s treatment of asylum seekers. “No matter how many times you parrot that lie, we will keep reminding you,” he told the crowd. He also had a line for Queensland Premier Campbell Newman: “our dear leader”. “I know many of you protesters are here, in fact, to protest the arrogant, despotic, far-right, authoritarian, self-serving, bullyboy government and the police state he has created,” Mr Donovan said.
About 30 rallies were held during the weekend, including in regional cities on Saturday and state capitals on Sunday. The event will culminate on Monday when protesters deliver a notice of no confidence to Parliament House.
Federal Opposition Leader Bill Shorten distanced himself from the rally, telling reporters the Labor Party was not formally involved.
Not formally involved, I’m sure.

“But I do get people want to express their views. It's a free country,” Mr Shorten said.
The invitation to march, circulated via social media, calls on people to “participate in democracy”. “Democracy doesn't end at the ballot box,” the invitation says. “It is the right, if not duty, of all Australians to hold our elected representatives to account; to remind them that they are, above all else, public servants.”
“Short memory, must have a sho-o-ort memory!”

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