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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 2nd Mar 2014 11:37

Solar subsidies hae already been cut here in Aus.

I just hope they cut back on all Green energy subsidies.

They should pay their own way.

rh200 2nd Mar 2014 11:41

Don't know but we might have to beef up natural gas production and start shipping to Europe soon

MTOW 2nd Mar 2014 11:53

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Re making Muslim immigrants sign a piece of paper acknowledging our laws... They'll sign anything. - and then ignore it. Lying to the infidel is permitted, even encouraged, if it advances Islam, so they'll sign anything and then renege. I don't know how we're going to undo the damage wrought upon this country by Fraser and Keating, but it's not going to be pleasant whatever way it goes. We're either going to submit to the new majority - which they will become in a few short generations if current birth rates continue - or have to fight an extremely nasty war that will involve aspects most of us would rather not think about.

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2014 12:17


Along with a clear statement that Sharia law will never ever be permitted to become established in Australia
There is no scope within the Australian legal system for Sharia law, and nor should there be. The system permits only common law and statutory law.

Various states have allowed limited customary law for indigenous people, which IMO (non expert) seems similar to mediation law. IE, if two parties have a non-criminal civil dispute that could be resolved to both their satisfaction using customary law (or mediation) then good for them. It doesn't affect criminal matters, and AFAIK is only used by agreement from both parties for relatively minor matters.

No-one needs to sign anything. The law is the law; it applies to anyone in Australia whether citizen, resident or just visiting for a few days. Many fifth generation Australians are also in complete ignorance of the law, particularly when they get busted :eek:. It still applies and has always applied whether your anscestors came on the First Fleet or you arrived last week, so I'm not sure what the issue here is? :confused: Has someone been recently excused from Australian law because of their beliefs or are we talking hypotheticals? If it's the former then let me know, because I have a flag and ready access to a picket van :E, but if it's the latter then... deep breaths. It hasn't happened yet, and even if it does, there's always the High Court to contend with. :} Not to mention the (currently conservative) federal government.



He got on well with them, but the one thing that really bugged him was the way the men went out of their way to stop their wives from learning English - for learning English would give the women the freedom to get out of the house and undermine the husbands' hold over them.
Power and control; while it's largely been adressed in Anglo societies it's still big problem in other places. It's International Women's Day next Saturday (I have several planned engagements that may involve refreshing beverages and political discussion :}:cool:) so spare a thought for these issues. Seriously, if the Australian community continues to discourage that sort of oppression then it won't gain traction. We Aussies are still the majority, and what we think matters. As several posters mention it's been a problem for various immigrant groups that has largely been addressed by the Australian public. If it can't be addressed and individuals have a problem with it, then maybe they came to the wrong country. If they contravene the law then they are prosecuted provided someone makes a complaint (which newcomers need to be made aware that they can do) and the system does its thing.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 12:22

MTOW

Yes, don't disagree but if you read my post closely, it has to be the females / women who read it, not just the men.

As I see it, half the problem is the women don't know it is against the law here
AND don't know where to go. At least give them the information that 1. It is against the law and 2. There are people out there who can help.

As Worrals said, give them some Power and control by providing information that otherwise they would not get as the man wouldn't allow it.

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2014 12:46


At least give them the information that 1. It is against the law and 2. There are people out there who can help.
This is where awareness steps in. There are various NFP organizations that dedicate their time to educating new Australian women about this. Most of them are lefties (so it goes :E) but that's what they do. The esteemed and generally right wing CWA (Country Women's Association) also does a lot wrt this, as do the various churches.


Before anyone jumps in with righteous anger about the newcomers, I would remind you that our own community still battles against domestic violence. Despite our best efforts there are still too many wife and child beaters amongst us true-blue Aussies; too many men who regularly beat their wives and children into submission. :( This is not an exclusive Muslim trait by any means. In Australia it's no longer publically acceptable (which is a great achievement) but it still happens.
The first stone rule applies; let you (the good Aussie blokes, ie the ones who don't bash their wives) lead by example. It has more impact than you'd think.
http://www.cfmeuvic.com.au/sites/cfm...Pg-503x334.jpg

Solid Rust Twotter 2nd Mar 2014 18:30

Your assumption being that the wives and daughters have even been taught to read in the first place.

MTOW 2nd Mar 2014 18:49

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
It's a huge step for a woman from these communities to stand up against her parents, requiring courage I'm not sure I possess. If they make such a decision, they cut themselves off from virtually everyone in their community, for very few will side with them. On France, Muslim women who have 'erred' have had acid thrown in their faces or have been burnt - with petrol bombs. To 'err' can be something as prosaic as getting a job that exposes them to males outside the family. I can't believe that Australian politicians believe that somehow it will be different here than it has proven to be in Europe.

rh200 2nd Mar 2014 21:00


The assumption is that I would behave within certain civilised norms or face prosecution.
Thats because you would come from a society that its norms closely reflects our own.

A countrys laws "generally" revolve around the societal norms of the majority of its population. Why stability, the more it goes away from it, the more force you have to use to keep control.

As a rule most people hold more sway on their moral view of right and wrong than a countrys laws, then it comes down to chances of being caught versus punishment if caught, as whether they follow them.

As for people from other cultures, a significant amount of them are from cultures that are vastly different to our own, hence its to be expected that these problems arise.


Despite our best efforts there are still too many wife and child beaters amongst us true-blue Aussies; too many men who regularly beat their wives and children into submission.
I would hazard a guess its most likely worse now than 40 or so years ago. When there's a massive turn around and confusion in peoples roles there are side effects, frustration takes over. The vast majority of our values and systems worked upon our natural instincts to control particular natural tendencies.

Some people and movements like to think we are this wonderful creature that can be all cookies and cream. We are not, we are animals that have at our core a basic animal kernal, this has just been convolved over thousands of years with a values system.

When the going gets bad, we can still easily revert back.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 21:06

MTOW

Agree re huge step and consequences.

But "do nothing" isn't gong to achieve anything so the more the word is spread the better. Empowerment for want of a better word.


Worrals

That is a great advert.

Needs to be a white collar one as well because it is not exclusively a blue collar problem, regardless of what people may think.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 22:37

Interesting article from Amanda Vanstone.

Having a right go at the media and sloppy reporting just a couple of the good points she has made.


"he decided to give weekly briefings on boat arrivals. It was a sensible decision to cut off day-to-day information from the people-smuggler networks. We are, of course, entitled to know what our government is doing. But we do not need to know every detail on a 24/7 basis. The media understandably want every little titbit of information to feed the voracious appetite of 24/7 reporting. But their annoyance at what they characterise as Morrison's decision to exclude them does not excuse sloppy or malevolent reporting.
Media vultures circling Immigration Minister Scott Morrison are blind to facts

Captain Sand Dune 2nd Mar 2014 22:44

Excellent point on the subject of domestic violence, WITW.

There is no scope within the Australian legal system for Sharia law, and nor should there be. The system permits only common law and statutory law.
Iím willing to be corrected if wrong, however does the UK already recognise Sharia law to some extent? If so, then that may be a dangerous precedent that Muslims here may want to leverage on.
And while Iím here, anyone see this:

A man has been charged after he was allegedly caught drink driving three times within a 24 hour period at Toronto.
Thatís Toronto, NSW folks!

About 11.25pm on Friday 28 February 2014, police stopped a 19-year-old woman driving along Railway Parade, Blackalls Park, for a roadside breath test. The woman allegedly returned a positive result and was arrested and taken to Toronto Police Station, where she returned a breath analysis of 0.016.
She was issued a field court attendance notice for drive with novice range PCA, to appear at Toronto Local Court on Wednesday 19 February 2014. Itís alleged when the girlís 37-year-old father drove to the station shortly after; he returned a positive breath test and later a breath test analysis reading of 0.192. He was issued a field court attendance notice for drive with high range PCA and his Provisional driverís license was suspended.
I guess the apple doesnít fall far from the tree. However, two hours later...

About 1.20am yesterday (Saturday 1 March 2014), police stopped the man driving on Thorne Street, Toronto where he underwent a roadside breath test, which allegedly returned a positive result. He was taken to Toronto Police Station, where he allegedly returned a breath analysis reading of 0.190. He was issued a field court attendance notice for drive with high-range PCA and drive whilst license suspended.
Not to be deterred however....

About 11pm yesterday (Saturday 1 March 2014), the man was stopped again driving along Milford Avenue, Toronto, when he lost control of the car and drove onto the incorrect side of the road. Police stopped the man and he allegedly returned a positive roadside breath test. He was taken to Toronto Police Station, where he returned an alleged breath analysis reading of 0.159. He was issued a third field court attendance notice for drive with high range PCA, drive whilst license suspended and negligent driving.
He will appear at Toronto Local Court on Wednesday 19 March 2014.
So, three counts of DUI and two of driving with a suspended license and this feral is still allowed to pose a threat to the community? Well of course he would, as clearly there is no incentive not too!!
Its instances such as this that make me realize how frustrated the police must be at times. They know full well the risk that d*ckhead poses, yet our p*ss weak statutes present at best little deterrent.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 22:51

CSD

"So, three counts of DUI and two of driving with a suspended license and this feral is still allowed to pose a threat to the community? Well of course he would, as clearly there is no incentive not too!!"


Here is one for you.

A bloke in South Australia got caught "poaching". Hehad the forearm he was using and the car he was driving confiscated. The police went to charge him / take his licences away and found he had no driving licence and no firearms licence and the firearm was unregistered ! They were stumped as the way the law was written, it meant he couldn't be charged with all offences. I believe the law has now been changed.

But you know what, this guy will go and get another car, go and get another firearm and be back out there doing it again, solely because we as a society are piss weak !!!

parabellum 2nd Mar 2014 23:02


They should pay their own way.

I think the 10k I paid to put the panels on the roof plus transformer etc. IS paying my own way!

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2014 23:52


Iím willing to be corrected if wrong, however does the UK already recognise Sharia law to some extent?
They do, but IIRC it's only for property matters and low level disputes, similar to mediation. They'd long accepted Jewish law being used for similar stuff.

From wiki:

In September 2008, newspapers in the United Kingdom stated the government had "quietly sanctioned" the recognition of sharia courts. This refers to situations where both sides in a legal dispute freely choose a sharia court as a binding arbitrator rather than taking a matter before the official courts. The decision did not break new ground: the decisions of similar Jewish beth din court arbitrations have been recognized in England for over 100 years.
However, this is an interesting read; it may not be as benign as claimed. If even half of it is true, the British government have a bit of explaining to do.
Sharia law riding high in Britain | Dispatch International

I wouldn't want either system allowed here; if people want to use them privately (ie as a set of rules for resolving a dispute) they can do so without the blessing of the legal system. I'm not even all that crazy about customary law either (I think there should be one system for all) but they've got the valid argument that they were here first.

Fantome 3rd Mar 2014 01:44

Stephen Conroy vs Angus Campbell


With Angus Campbell as frontman for the governmentís asylum seeker policy, a great confusion between the roles of the military and the roles of the civil government leads Mungo to question the respectability of its policy.



Thus Spake Mungo #116 Conspiracy, Campbell? | Echonetdaily

Captain Sand Dune 3rd Mar 2014 03:52

No, the only conspiracy here is the one Mungoís head. The ADF is a tool of government of the day, and thus can be used for pretty well anything they damn well want. Just because the particular task may not be to Mungoís liking does not make it a conspiracy.
And what of Mungoís likings? Well a cursory glance at our old mate Wikipedia reveals; ĎHe is also known for his centre-left, strongly pro-Australian Labor Party views, being critical both of the conservative Liberal and National Parties, and of the far left (e.g., communists) who attack Labor for its cautious reformism.í Well, no surprises there then.
And is the ALP above using the ADF for non-military tasking? Not in 1949 when the Chifley government sent in the Army to break a strike by coal miners near Newcastle. Oh and let us not forget the strike of which none shall speak in 1989. I have personal experience of that one.
At least in this instance the LNP is using the ADF to actually protect our borders rather than destroy unions that represent Australian workers.

500N 3rd Mar 2014 04:02

At the end of the day, the ADF do what they are told.

Before that, they can advise, suggest courses of action and even disagree but when the talking is over and the orders are given, they get on with it, whether they like it or not. It is not a democracy and I think people forget that.

In addition, they answer to the Gov't, not any Senate committee or media hack that wants to ask pointed questions so if they don't want to answer, they won't.

Attacking General Campbell is like attacking General Cosgrove, someone held in high esteem both in the Military and civilian circles. The fact he has been on the inside of Politics before means he knows how to handle things,
plus of course his excellent service record in the most demanding of units.

Worrals in the wilds 3rd Mar 2014 05:24

CSD, agree. No-one complains when the ADF help out after natural disasters (and of course nor should they). However, it's another example of the ADF being used for non-military purposes. The non military alternative would be to arm up Customs into a fully law enforcement role like US Customs have, but that would be expensive, time consuming and a needless duplication of our perfectly good Navy.


Before that, they can advise, suggest courses of action and even disagree but when the talking is over and the orders are given, they get on with it, whether they like it or not. It is not a democracy and I think people forget that.
The public service is the same, except that disagreeing is a bona fide career stopper :eek:. I think the ADF actually get more of a say than the APS, though that could be a 'grass is greener' thing.

500N 3rd Mar 2014 05:31

"except that disagreeing is a bona fide career stopper"

It didn't stop Angus Houston getting the top job.

It's how you do it. The Pollies don't have the experience so they have to rely on the ADF top hierarchy.


"he non military alternative would be to arm up Customs into a fully law enforcement role like US Customs have"

I hope that never happens. Apart from as you say expensive and duplication, no way would they ever have the skill level to do what the ADF does full time. Just look at the Pong Su North Korean Ship incident as an example where Navy Ships, helos and Army were all required to stop the boat after the Police and Customs failed to do it - and you have to ask why they even tried in seas like that.


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