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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Clare Prop 2nd Mar 2014 00:06

Meanwhile over on The Drum, the "Let 'em all in" brigade are now shrieking that Manus Island is a "gulag" "concentration camp" and a "hell hole" where people are being "tortured" but on the other hand "we mustn't upset our neighbours" the hyperbowl :E is getting worse

a) Any of them actually been tortured in a gulag I wonder, any of them ever gone to a real "hell hole" like say a refugee camp in the middle east with a charity that does things rather than shriekes about things, to do some volunteering?


b) Why is it not OK to "upset" the Indonesians, but absolutely fine to insult the PNG people, not only by saying their country is a hell hole, but also sticking up for people allegedly making somewhat inflammatory remarks about what was going to happen to the local women when the inmates got out?

bosnich71 2nd Mar 2014 02:29

Clare ... ref. "Gulag", and being tortured etc.
You could equally have asked if any of the 'let all in brigade' had spent time in an immigration facility right here in Australia in the 1950s and 60s'.
And the people in those were legal.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 02:39

Bonegilla didn't look too bad a place to stay. The hut / house I stayed in in the late 80's was well constructed even though it was falling apart by then and had no windows.

No different to Army style accommodation at Puckapunyal in the 80's.

bosnich71 2nd Mar 2014 03:14

500 .... you should have tried the "accomodation" at Port Adelaide,otherwise known as Port Misery, designed to make anyone unfortunate to be housed there try their best to get out as soon as possible ..... and it worked !
One of the many reasons why older immigrants of all nationalities have no sympathy for the illegals arriving during Labour's 'government'.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 03:21

I am sure they varied. I just know a couple of them.

I must admit Bonegilla was bloody cold in Winter and Hot in summer
but they had the lake to swim in, were safe and had food.

I suppose anything was better than the post WWII they came from.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 03:25

I just looked it up, photos don't look too inviting !!!

"One of the worst migrant hostels in South Australia, Rosewater consisted of converted wool stores partitioned for accommodation. Stories from former residents feature the shock and disappointment at their first sight of Rosewater hostel, and some recall rats and snakes in the buildings."

Plus a list of others in SA.

Flying Binghi 2nd Mar 2014 04:09

Yep, them illegal immigrants sure are a diverting subject though they are being dealt with. Labors mess is being cleaned up... shame about them 1,100 or so dead though it don't worry Rudd, Gillard, the green team, ABC and Fairfax, so why should we worry about it...:hmm:

There are other labor/green disasters to fix up here in Oz.

Germany again sets the example of what happens when naive greens get their way...

"Germany’s WirtschaftsWoche (Business Week) reports on German steel and engineering giant ThyssenKrupp’s reaction to rising renewable energy costs, warning that “unless the correct decisions are made concerning renewable electricity, Germany as a location for steel production is in jeopardy.”

ThyssenKrupp is struggling to keep its steel-making operations alive in Germany in the face of skyrocketing energy costs owing to renewable energies..."

Germany?s Leading Steel Producer ThyssenKrupp Warns Country Of Consequences Of High Energy Prices


500N 2nd Mar 2014 04:15

I think you will find tat is the case in most places.

People are only just waking up to the fact that all this green stuff is making things costs more, and not just the bills !!!

500N 2nd Mar 2014 04:54

Interesting article about the under age marriage in Aus - the 12 year old a while ago - plus some of the other practices that go on.

Worth a read.

Hotline plan to help hidden child brides in Sydney

Andu 2nd Mar 2014 05:31

Back in the 1970s, a mate adopted two Vietnamese orphans. He wanted them to maintain contact with people of their own culture, so he used to take the children to Vietnamese functions etc, where he met and became friends with a number of Vietnamese who had arrived here after the end of the Vietnam war.

He got on well with them, but the one thing that really bugged him was the way the men went out of their way to stop their wives from learning English - for learning English would give the women the freedom to get out of the house and undermine the husbands' hold over them.

Coming to a new country, particularly as a refugee, (implicitly meaning 'unwillingly'), is horribly threatening, so it's probably human nature to try to protect what you can - and the very core you'd want to protect is the family.

So it's not exactly new, (I know from first hand experience that the Italians in the Fifties were as guilty of this as the Vietnamese). But I'd have to say that, (as in too many other areas), the Muslims really do seem to push the boundaries.

The "three generation rule*" has proven to work for all but a very few (dare I call them 'hard core') immigrants. (There were many Italian and Greek fathers who went out of their way to prevent their children marrying 'out'.)

(*For those not familiar with that rule, it says that the third generation of native-born children of immigrants become virtually indistinguishable in their attitudes from very long term natives.)

I fear that with the Muslims, because a large proportion of them seem consciously to set out not to assimilate in any way because it is a tenet of their Faith, the three generation rule will not work nearly as successfully as it has with other influxes of immigrants. (I'm first to accept that it is proving to be working with some, but not nearly enough.)

500N 2nd Mar 2014 05:34

As much as I hate things being imposed by Gov'ts, maybe the Aus Gov't needs to make it mandatory to learn English to overcome this.

Or some document is given to all new arrivals clearly out lining the laws in black and white and they have to sign for them after they read them. After all, they sit around for long enough !!!

Pinky the pilot 2nd Mar 2014 05:40

Or some document is given to all new arrivals clearly out lining the laws in black and white and they have to sign for them after they read them.
Along with a clear statement that Sharia law will never ever be permitted to become established in Australia, and that if anyone wishes to live in a Sharia law system they are free to move to a country which uses it.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 05:48

Good point.

If everybody got one and had to sign for it, at least they can't say they didn't see it.

Solid Rust Twotter 2nd Mar 2014 07:59

The authorities like to point out to Ozmates and other newcomers of a similar background that ignorance of the law is no excuse, Mr N. Why should that not apply to new arrivals from these countries as well?

500N 2nd Mar 2014 08:02


I don't understand what you are getting at with your post.

Solid Rust Twotter 2nd Mar 2014 08:31

If I or someone from the UK or US or any like country were to arrive in Oz and do something unlawful, I would be prosecuted. No one would hand a bit of paper to me at the border outlining the laws I'm required to comply with. The assumption is that I would behave within certain civilised norms or face prosecution.

What is the reason that it should not apply to these newcomers?

500N 2nd Mar 2014 08:42

Because we are far too PC a country now and don't have the balls to tackle the issues head on.

However I think the point has come where the issues will be tackled.

Re giving some people are piece of paper et al, well, I think you (as in we, Aus) need to modify your approach a bit and take into account where they come from and the need to "bring them up to speed" on what is and is not acceptable / legal in this country.

Also, IF you ensured all the wives / women knew that Sharia law was not allowed, underage marriage was not allowed, underage sex not allowed and ........ people can be contacted via these means, you know what I mean, it gives them an "out" that they might not know about.

See the link to the article I posted above, I think it mentioned something like this.

They won't know if you don't tell them.

Solid Rust Twotter 2nd Mar 2014 08:54

That's assuming the wives/daughters could read that bit of paper or would even be allowed access to it.

I understand the reasoning but the fact that one group is assumed to be up to speed and treated as being au fait with the requirements, while the other is unreeled yards of slack seems to be more than a little discriminatory. It worries me that the authorities bend over backwards to help out a small sector that appears to have no regard at all for the laws of the country or its people.

500N 2nd Mar 2014 09:02

"That's assuming the wives/daughters could read that bit of paper or would even be allowed access to it. "

Everybody has to go through customs, immigration, etc etc, have photo checked.

Plenty of opportunity for them to read and sign it when they do this, especially if they apply for visa before they get here as I think every application still requires and interview.

You just tell them that that is one of the requirements, no if's, no buts, just farking do it. Don't do it, have a big red stamp in front of them and stamp the application form "Application REJECTED due to not allowing all family members to read documents on how the laws are in Australia" and then hand them a piece of paper with the same information on it in various languages.

Stick that under the noses and see what happens !!!!

Sometimes you need a baseball bat to crack a nut !

Flying Binghi 2nd Mar 2014 11:28

Lets hope we in Australia have the brains to learn from others mistakes...

"...Worried about bloated budgets, declining industrial competitiveness, and citizen backlash, European nations have been retreating from green energy for the last four years. Spain slashed solar subsidies in 2009 and photovoltaic sales fell 80 percent in a single year. Germany cut subsidies in 2011 and 2012 and the number of jobs in the German solar industry dropped by 50 percent. Renewable subsidy cuts in the Czech Republic, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, and the United Kingdom added to the cascade. The RENIXX Renewable Energy Index fell below 200 in 2012, down 90 percent from the 2008 peak..."
continues - Renewable Energy in Decline | Watts Up With That?


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