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Worrals in the wilds 22nd May 2012 12:17

No Bob, you're right and I got it around the wrong way. :O :O
Edited accordingly and apologies to Midnight Oil. .

Darn smart phones and their tiny screens.

CHAIRMAN 22nd May 2012 13:13


Ruthless pursuit of political office without regard for the consequences is the mark of Abbottís tenure as Opposition leader
Hey Matt, I thought Juliar had the franchise on that.

Clare Prop 22nd May 2012 14:18

Matt, why not direct your thoughts about the Malaysia "solution" to the Greens? Would the High Court have overturned it even if the Greens had agreed with it? I certainly hope so, it was an outrageous idea and still no word from the govt about what would have happened to person # 801.At least Abbott offered an alternative.


As for Thomson, I watched it up to the crocodile tears about the journos staking out the bathroom. Then I had to go and get a bucket. Came back to see Albanese looking like a cross old chook. :ugh:

CoodaShooda 22nd May 2012 14:27


Ruthless pursuit of political office without regard for the consequences is the mark of Abbottís tenure as Opposition leader
I have to agree with Chairman that this is a more apt description of labor's performance in recent years.

Capitalising on labor's many failings is more the mark of Abbott's tenure. However, it could also be argued that the drover's dog would have done just as well, given the glut of opportunity that labor has provided.

In 2007, I commented that Abbott and Julie Bishop being in the shadow ministry clearly demonstrated the lack of talent available to Brendan Nelson in forming an opposition. I remain unconvinced of their ability to lead Australia and will watch their future performance with interest.

Contributors here were also perceptive in forecasting Rudd's fall from grace and the potential disaster of a labor/greens alliance.

Another subject where we have been pretty close to the mark has been the counterproductive nature of labor's continued diatribe against Abbott. That is, counterproductive to labor. It certainly doesn't appear to have swayed the views of any here and I haven't found anyone in the real world who is giving any credence to labor's diatribes.

We are now in a position of having to choose between a party which has clearly demonstrated that it is unfit to hold office and to which very few are listening and a party that we fear might be unfit to hold office but can't be sure until they sit on the Treasury Benches.

The broad consensus appears to be, on this occasion, better the devil you don't know, than the one that you do.

The one area where we have probably been least successful is in identifying what labor may have actually done to warrant support. But I live in hope...:E

The questions for the future are, who will lead labor to the next election, when will it be held, will Ms Gillard PM MP take a low profile role for the time being and how effective will the blatant vote buying exercises....sorry, compensation/support policies...be in improving labor's vote before the election?

Matt and Lex, it's good to have you around. The thread tends to be a bit boring when we are all agreeing with each other. :ok:

Worrals in the wilds 22nd May 2012 15:51


The questions for the future are, who will lead labor to the next election, when will it be held,
I don't think it matters all that much. Barring something really untoward happening I don't think they can come back from this. Nor do I think they deserve to.

It's fashionable to think that people vote purely with their wallets and no-one in the brave post modern world cares about integrity; that people expect politicians to be purely opportunistic. While that may have been the case for the last two decades or so, I think the mood is changing.

In relation to the allegations of rorting, the only argument they seem to be able to muster is 'well the Libs are as bad.' The problem with this argument is that firstly if it's true then the Libs are a lot better at hiding it (Coulston notwithstanding, but that was a while ago, and Thomson / Slipper are in the here and now). We're not seeing Tone's credit card statements all over the nightly news. Presumably if the Labor machine had been able to dig up any useful dirt they would have done so by now, but the best they could do was the uni story, which wasn't very exciting.

The second problem with that argument is that if you're a traditional ALP supporter, the obvious retort is that of course the Libs are dodgy. They're Libs. :E:} They're the white shoe brigade (or insert insult of choice) which is why Labor supporters don't support them. When Labor start getting caught with their pants down and their hands in the members' piggy bank (not to mention state issues like property deals and asset sell offs), the excuse 'they do it too' just doesn't cut it and achieves little except an erosion of trust and anger from traditional supports. It makes the Labor Party look as unattractive to their supporters as the Liberal Party, which doesn't win votes. :ouch:

I don't think Gillard and co were nearly quick enough to condemn the allegations, which they could have wrapped into the 'innocent until proven guilty' message quite easily. By failing to do so, they gave the impression that they condone the alleged misbehaviour. Whether they actually do or not is irrelevant; people believe what they believe. Gillard's belated attempts at the ACTU conference to play catch up were too little too late.

As for the policies from either side, the budget and the rest of it? To ordinary people I think it's become white noise. The two things that seem to rise above the malestrom are Carbon Tax and industrial relations. The tax is a negative for Labor and IR is variously a negative for both the Libs and Labor, depending on the view point (and work status) of the individual. Apart from the party faithful on both sides, when people talk about the government at the moment it's about scandals and rorts. Everything else comes second, or not at all. As several media commentators have said, people have simply stopped listening. It's no use touting how good the policies are, how big the handouts will be, how little the Carbon Tax will affect people (etc) because people aren't listening.

RJM 22nd May 2012 21:29

To suggest that people will vote with their wallets is well off the mark. Labor appears to think that a few 'free' dollars wil bring the masses back on side, but that is not only demonstrably wrong (a minor upward blip only after Labor's round of carbon tax compensation), but it is an insulting underestimation of the political awareness of the average Australian.

Labor seems blind to the sensibilities of the voters it's trying to woo, just as it is blind to the major problem facing Labor: Julia.

Here's the start of an article from the Aust Fin Review, a 'friendly' Fairfax paper to boot:

The Gillard factor makes Labor a pariah

PUBLISHED: 04 MAY 2012 00:50:13 | UPDATED: 04 MAY 2012 09:15:36

JOHN BLACK

In November 2007 Kevin Rudd won 5.4 million primary votes for Labor candidates, and in August 2010 Julia Gillardís team won 4.7 million primary votes, a drop of 700,000 votes for Gillard after only a couple of months in the top job.

In the recent Newspoll and Nielsen polls, Gillard is now winning 27 per cent, or 3.3 million, primary votes for her Labor candidates.

So, the Gillard leadership is costing the ALP caucus members who voted for her about 2.1 million of the 5.4 million primary votes won under Ruddís leadership not quite five years ago.

Thatís almost four in 10 former Labor voters lost, or a bit under 100,000 Labor voters in 2007 lost every month since Gillard was elected leader in June 2010. This in itself is bad enough, but the devastating truth here for Laborís caucus members is that these 2.1 million angry former Labor voters arenít spread evenly across all electorates, but overwhelmingly live in the 61 seats held by Labor MPs with two-party preferred margins of up to 15 per cent.

This means the swings against Gillard Labor are not likely to be uniform, but instead range up to 30 per cent in the 61 ALP seats held by margins of up to 15 per cent, wiping out all but 17 of these 61 seats and ripping the heart out of Laborís suburban base across all capital cities.

Labor strategists canít sandbag these seats against a rising electoral tide because the tide just keeps rising over the sandbags whereas, in the safe Coalition seats, the swings against Labor are a derisory 2 to 3 per cent two-party preferred. For Labor candidates, this isnít a swing, this is a malevolent force.

The most obvious reasons for this extraordinary result can be seen in the dissatisfaction/satisfaction ratings for Gillard, which are now approaching a ratio of two to one.

Under my rough rule of thumb this means Gillardís unpopularity, in and of itself, is costing Labor about 8 to 9 per cent of the primary vote.


The rest of the article is at

The Gillard factor makes Labor a pariah

Labor is cavalier with numbers.

Today in question time, Swan cranked up the 'jobs created by Labor since coming to power' from the 700,000 quoted this month by Gillard and Roxon among others to 800,000. Where are all these jobs?

Then Swan dissed a Liberal question about the record number of irregular arrivals by boat this month (about 1600).

Swan's response was to bark that 'nearly all of Howard's Nauru asylum seekers ended up in Australia' then hurriedly sat down and looked busy. Maybe they did, but then only a relatively small number of asylum seekers was ever sent to Nauru. After the first few boatloads disappeared into the Pacific, the boats stopped coming. Cunning old Howard outfoxed the people smugglers, sending their clients into a media blackout in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, never to be heard of again. Not much of a sales pitch for the smugglers. That was the system dismantled personally, and very publicly by Julia Gillard.

Because of her god-awful judgment and woeful numbers, Gillard personally has been like kryptonite to the once super Labor Party, or like Ratsak if you prefer.

It's ironic that two commentators who have seen this most clearly are Mark Latham and Graham Richardson, both of whom have been cast off in varying degrees by Labor.

It seems that if the people have stopped listening to Labor, Labor has stopped listening to anyone at all, except perhaps John Mcternan's rhetoric of class warfare. That strategy looks aimed at Labor emerging from the rout of the next election at least with its unthinking, rusted on voters still rusted on.

Andu 22nd May 2012 22:55

I have this horrible vision of a grey haired and wizened Julia Gillard standing at the podium of the 2155 ACTU Conference, leading the delegates (in her inimitable, never to be forgotten bray) in a rousing rendition of "Solidarity Forever".

If the results of the 2113 election go the way many here believe it will, perhaps we'll all be spared from any chance of that vision ever coming true?


Back to the present day: despite denials by Australian government spokesmen (including Foreign Minister Bob Carr), at least two Indonesian Ministers have said that there is a connection between the reduction of Chapelle Corby's (sp?) prison sentence and the release of a large number of Indonesian boys held in Australian prisons for people smuggling. Could it be that the Indonesian people smugglers are running short of crews for their daily scheduled services to Chrissie Island and have approached the Indonesian government with a plan to get some willing hands back on deck for the high season schedule rush before the next Australian election? :)

Pinky the pilot 23rd May 2012 03:26


I have this horrible vision of a grey haired and wizened Julia Gillard standing at the podium of the 2155 ACTU Conference, leading the delegates (in her inimitable, never to be forgotten bray) in a rousing rendition of "Solidarity Forever".
Seeing and hearing Hawkey do that was truly cringeworthy!:ugh::yuk: My first reaction was along the lines of 'Don't give up your day job,' but then remembered he no longer has one.


despite denials by Australian government spokesmen (including Foreign Minister Bob Carr),
Well, they wouldn't admit it anyway now would they?

I was wondering how long it would be before someone in the meeja brought that up.:hmm:

Worrals in the wilds 23rd May 2012 04:14


Seeing and hearing Hawkey do that was truly cringeworthy!:ugh:
OOh yeah. I think they must be secretly keeping him in a vat of formaldehyde at ACTU headquarters and only letting him out for special occasions. :eek: Way too much plastic surgery been happening there...

IMO Corby would have been released years ago if she and her family hadn't consistently made such spectacles of themselves all over the media. :ouch:

Andu 23rd May 2012 05:08

Have to agree with your last point, Worrals. Face is incredibly important to the Indonesians (as it it, let's face it, to damn near all of us). To be seen to acquiesce to a demand from the (again, let's accept it) despised metzalis, as the Malaysians refer to us (loosely translated from Bahasa as 'wog' or 'spic'), is not what they want to be seen to do, even if it's what they want to do.

I can't help but feel that many of the moves made by the Corby family since one of their number found herself in an Indonesian prison have been predicated around maximising the return on the women's magazines, book and television deals when that relative eventually returns rather than getting her out with minimum delay and fuss.

What really distresses me is how predictably all of the abovementioned meedja will fall over themselves, chequebooks in hand, to oblige them, and how we'll be bombarded for weeks on end with bathos-laden bullsh1t from all quarters.

parabellum 23rd May 2012 06:41

Will she be able to make any money though? Benefiting from the proceeds of crime etc. will those laws apply?

Worrals in the wilds 23rd May 2012 07:00

Dunno, parabellum. I don't know if they apply to foreign convictions. Nor have her family been convicted of anything wrt Schapelle's actions, so I assume there's nothing to stop them profiting, if not Schapelle herself.

What really distresses me is how predictably all of the abovementioned meedja will fall over themselves, chequebooks in hand, to oblige them, and how we'll be bombarded for weeks on end with bathos-laden bullsh1t from all quarters.
Yep. :yuk::yuk::yuk:
Two Qantas baggies were spat on at a local shopping centre during the height of the BS after her arrest. They are decent, honest, hardworking guys who would no more think about smuggling drugs than you or I would. Countless others were verbally abused and many guys stopped wearing their uniforms in public as a result.

This was all due to media sensationalism of a very dodgy story that had more holes than a colander and which even her own lawyer subsequently said was a fabrication.

Meanwhile, at the same time another Australian citizen (Van Tuong Nguyen) was found guilty of drug smuggling in Singapore and later hanged, but his story barely made a mention next to Our Schapelle's media extravaganza. Maybe being Asian, male and lacking a big set of tits had something to do with it. :mad:

Other inconsistencies aside, how any woman could fail to notice an extra 4kg weight in a boogie board case is beyond me. It's the same weight as two full legs of lamb FFS.

RJM 23rd May 2012 12:31


Ruthless pursuit of political office without regard for the consequences is the mark of Abbottís tenure as Opposition leader.
I have to agree with Chairman that this is a more apt description of labor's performance in recent years.
And I'd have to agree as well, Cooda.

Paul Kelly from the Australian put it like this:


It is a party that puts its own self-interest before any standard, principle or institutionÖ It is about staying in office and doing whatever is required to stay in office. This narrative suffocates any other Labor message and is killing the government.
Gillard fits perfectly into this view of Labor. While her troops repeat the mantra that 'parliament should not judge Craig Thomson', the Prime Minister already has judged him, booting him out of the Labor Party because 'a line had been crossed', that line determined not by the courts, but apparently by J Gillard. A reasonable question is, 'Why has that line not been crossed with respect to parliament?'

Gillard has beeen asked that question and her typically weak response was: 'Look, I made that call, and I don't intend to revisit...blah...blah...'

On Thomson, supposedly the TV program A Current Affair has got one of the prostitutes used by Thomson to talk, identifying Thomson as her customer and dropping him right in it.

On Schappelle - what story will she give to the media and write in her book?

parabellum 23rd May 2012 12:52

I hope when Corby does arrive back they whisk her off down the service steps to a car, process her in the location normally reserved for 'people of interest' and then an unmarked car to her home, it sends completely the wrong message if she is allowed to make a grand entrance into the arrivals hall, she is not a heroin, she is a convicted drug trafficker.




(and yes, that should be, 'Heroine'!):O

Wiley 23rd May 2012 13:00


A Current Affair has got one of the prostitutes used by Thomson to talk, identifying Thomson as her customer and dropping him right in it.
There's an old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

If 'A Current Affair' has indeed found a (let's be Politically Correct comrades) sex worker who is willing to go on camera and say she was the do-ee and Mr Thomson the do-er (or words to that effect) in a commercial transaction or transactions, particularly if any one of those transactions is found to have occurred on a night that co-incides with one of the nights that Mr Thomson alleges an unnamed person used clones of Mr Thomson's credit card, telephone and driver's licence - and billed the HSU for the transaction - I think Mr Thomson might be said to be living in interesting times...

One can only hope he had a happy ending on the night, for it seems highly unlikely he's going to have one anytime soon.

eagle 86 23rd May 2012 23:43

The rumour is the date for the next hatchet job is June 28.
GAGS
E86

Isaac Hunte 24th May 2012 01:16

I know everybody (almost) thinks Craig Thomson is a sleaze and a cheat and lots of other things, but for a moment spare athought for his state of mind.

While he may be protected by Gillard, Albanese and others, the emotional stress he'd be experiencing must be unbearable and would have been that way for the last few years. One would need the hide of a rhino to ignore the constant barrage, and what must his wife and his extended family be feeling?

So I predict, that sooner rather than later it'll all be just too much and he'll either resign or harm himself in some way, the former would please most of Australia, and the latter would be very sad indeed.

While he continues to remain as an MP he is doing immense damage to the respect that Parliament should command and distracts both the ALP and the LNP from focussing on the greater good of all Australians.

If Gillard did not rely on the Greens and Independents (?) Thomson would have been cut loose so long ago nobody would remembered his name, but now we can be certain that the next election will be centred on Union greed and other sordid matters.

parabellum 24th May 2012 01:32

Craig Thompson!
 
Labour Party Genius!!


Finally Labour has somebody that
can organise a root in a brothel.!!!



Worrals in the wilds 24th May 2012 01:53

Not very well though...:\

she is not a heroin, she is a convicted drug trafficker.
Nice pun by the way. ;)

On Thomson, supposedly the TV program A Current Affair has got one of the prostitutes used by Thomson to talk, identifying Thomson as her customer and dropping him right in it.
Interesting. :8 I'd figured no-one could remember him. I wonder how much legitimacy there is to her claim? ACA is not exactly a bastion of good journalism.

I'd be really surprised if the average sex worker would remember who the clients were some time after, unless they were seven feet tall, had flaming red hair or carried on like a pork chop. Busy brothel workers see a number of clients every shift. Put another way, if Thomson came into a bar or a hairdressing salon, I think you'd be lucky if anyone remembered him even a week later. Until this saga he wasn't particularly high profile. Peter Garrett would be memorable because he's well known and has a distinctive appearance, but Thomson is fairly non descript.

Buster Hyman 24th May 2012 02:30

Opportunist I think WitW. Never watch that trash, or its sibling on Seven. Not interested.


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