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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

7x7 26th Feb 2014 05:44

Malcolm Turnbull in fine form lambasting Steven Conroy. Worth a watch.

Question Time Video: The Conrovian Senate Estimates Hearings - YouTube

parabellum 26th Feb 2014 06:27

Agree, stats can be manipulated and I don't have the source for these, they just arrived in an email.


Too true Singapore is not Australia, Singapore cost of living would easily be double Australia at any level, probably four times when public housing is considered and by the time a Certificate of Entitlement has been obtained a one litre Toyota Starlet, on the road, would be about $75,000.!

david1300 26th Feb 2014 08:10

We'll that article was a laugh, until I got to this, which is when I really choked hysterically: "Last week Bill Shorten promised to lead a constructive opposition and not oppose everything for the sake of it."

So he is approving the repeal of the carbon tax after all :eek:

7x7 26th Feb 2014 10:30

The AEC has found that 19,000 (!) people voted more than once in the last election, one as many as 15 times.

Tony Abbott cannot ignore this. Something has to be done to address this before the next election.

I can't rent a bloody video without showing ID, but I can vote simply by telling some my name - (it would appear, as many times as I like).

Ken Borough 26th Feb 2014 10:59

...perhaps the guy was making a statement that he opposed compulsory voting! :}

Seriously, with the availability of wireless technology, there ought not be any good reason to adopt electronics to the electoral process, at least so far as marking the roll is concerned. Every polling officer should have a laptop loaded with a e-roll. He would hit an x next to the voter's name as a result of which the master roll could be interrogated with an instant red or green flag being given in response. If the flag was green, ballot papers would be issued. That would be a quick and easy way to prevent multiple casting of votes. Sure, it would cost a lot of $$$$$s but it could be step one of several to implement full e-voting. We need the NBN yesterday.

And if we had a National Identity Card, the question if identity would no longer be an issue. However, for some unfathomable reason, many oppose the idea of an Identity Card. FFS, we all, or mostly all, carry a driver's licence, Medicare Card, passport etc. What do people have to hide or fear, especially as the driver's licence is a de facto NIC? In fact, many prefer the ID of a licence rather than a passport: work that out!

MTOW 26th Feb 2014 11:13

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Here's a radical idea. If you feel so strongly about protecting your identity, you don't have to get a national identity card. But if you don't have a national ID, you don't get to vote. Even once.

Fliegenmong 26th Feb 2014 11:15

The AEC has found that 19,000 (!) people voted more than once in the last election, one as many as 15 times

And so they have taken action against these people then 7x7? If they have identified them by numbers, why not charge them with electoral fraud?

Maybe TA ignores it because he is advised to ignore it? In another time and place it works in the Libs interest maybe?

Fliegenmong 26th Feb 2014 11:19

Good point Ken, easily done whilst you are in 'gummint' gotta ask why not though!? :bored:

rh200 26th Feb 2014 11:52


The AEC has found that 19,000 (!) people voted more than once in the last election, one as many as 15 times.
That figure is a bit misleading, the majority of those was to do with stuff ups etc. The only way it can go seriously wrong is if you go from booth to booth. with bad intentions, and yes they are looking a few that appear to tried to rort the system.

Our system works well, better than most some of which do use electronics. Why, because we are generally not extremist about elections and the kiss principle applies. Electronic means can have other issues that gets raised, that can just be to much to go into. The system has a good range of statistical checks and balances and it would be very unlikely that the system could get rorted enough to matter and not get picked up.

That said we will have to move on some day, and essentially when we do it should be only after a long look at all the systems out there.

Saltie 26th Feb 2014 22:40


Our system works well,
How in the world can you say that with the current multi-million dollar clusterf**k in Western Australia?

At the last election, one seat in Queensland (Petrie?) was decided by 12 - that's TWELVE - votes, and as many as six seats by around 200 votes. Anecdotal evidence of (usually Labor) Party hacks going to old people's homes and 'assisting' the residents to vote have been thick on the ground for decades, along with the dead rising on election day. We've also had cases where people have boasted on talkback radio of voting multiple times. One caller said he voted 200 times for the Greens.

This, along with the growing number of voters now living in Australia who've come from societies where vote rigging is a way of life, (these are the ones who vote multiple times because they have "bad English skills" or "don't understand the system" - yeah, right) makes it imperative we change the current system that wouldn't be acceptable in the local library or video store.

The current wet lettuce approach to who is voting cheapens the whole exercise. It should be one of the most important things we ever do. It should be treated with the gravity it deserves. Currently, it's not.

rh200 26th Feb 2014 22:54


How in the world can you say that with the current multi-million dollar clusterf**k in Western Australia?
Easily, its a cost versus outcome thing. It was going to cost a lot less, now a lot more to bring in more stringent checks. Yes your are right about the demographics. But as long as there's enough statistical checks we don't need to go overboard. We where an outlier, in that election and frankly in the costs of things the figure is not that great.

What it will mean now is that our elections are going to cost sh!t loads more, its a bit bit eye watering when you see the total cost of one. Electronic means have there pro's and cons, that doesn't mean we couldn't bring in some basic steps, but there needs to be a good cost benefit analysis done before we go off half cocked.

parabellum 27th Feb 2014 01:21


The current wet lettuce approach to who is voting cheapens the whole exercise. It should be one of the most important things we ever do. It should be treated with the gravity it deserves. Currently, it's not.

Correct, might have saved us six years of Rudd/Gillard/Rudd too! :)

Fubaar 27th Feb 2014 06:10

Surely a laptop for every polling officer connected to a central database to stop double voting isn't beyond the AEC's capabilities? You can't help but feel that there are some among our politicians who are quite happy with the current situation.

chuboy 27th Feb 2014 06:52

I recall having my name looked up on a computer rather than a large paper roll at the recent by-election... I don't know if this was updated live though.

Captain Sand Dune 27th Feb 2014 07:06


Malcolm Turnbull in fine form lambasting Steven Conroy. Worth a watch
Good for a giggle, although very time I see footage of politicians lambasting each other I wonder if my hard earned taxes are in fact paying for a bunch of over-indulged kindy kids rather than our elected ‘leaders’ at work.
As for Stephen ‘red undies’ Conroy – well did you really expect anything better?
First it was SHY who seemed to be unable to distinguish fiction in the form of the TV series Sea Patrol with reality, and addressing a Lieutenant-General as ‘Lieutenant’. Now we have the shadow defence minister behind the safety of parliamentary privilege accusing a respected senior ADF officer of a political cover up, in the process quoting from a movie (A Few Good Men).
True to type lefty attitude to defence, ie contempt and ignorance. Keep it up, d*ckheads. The Australian public need to be reminded why you lot were comprehensively trounced at the last election.

Andu 27th Feb 2014 19:44

I'm no Malcolm Turnbull fan, but you would have to admit, Cap'n SD, that Turnbull's speech was grade A debate. Very funny and very well delivered.

I see that quite a few Coalition backbenchers may have been reading this thread. They're not happy with TA's overly generous paid parental leave scheme and want it wound back. However, TA is hanging tough on the issue. The question is: will he see it all the way through or be 'forced, unwilling' by Party numbers, to wind it back?

CoodaShooda 27th Feb 2014 20:15

It seems like a move to break an election commitment without wearing too much flak.

We want to bring in a generous scheme, we would bring in a generous scheme ....but.....labor has left the economy in such a parlous state that we can't afford to do it now. We'll have to defer it.

Just wait for the presentation of Abbott as a caring PM who is prepared to listen to his backbench and, ultimately, put Australia's fiscal welfare ahead of his own wishes. If only labor hadn't stuffed the economy, etc etc.

Then again, he may brazen it out, which does not bode well for the country's future governance. :E

Andu 27th Feb 2014 20:24

You're reading it very much the same way I am, Cooda. He'll be 'dragged, unwillingly' into a back down, and be able to say in the next election that he really didn't want to back down, but...

*** politics. The PPL scheme will slip into the "non core promise" category.

rh200 28th Feb 2014 02:03

One likes to think this is all one big chess game, with the players setting up policys well in advance to trade off to get particular out comes. For example you could say the payed parental leave scheme is set up so its can be traded off against something else, cut back a bit.

Or the whole Q thing and various bits and pieces can be traded against the carbon and MRT. Another words we'll keep Q as it is and do a bailout, boot out Joyce but kill off MRT and the carbon tax.

But alas, the reality is the pollies arn't that smart and just bumble though.

7x7 28th Feb 2014 22:34

Two clever parodies.

Conroy - parody - YouTube

Bill Shorten's Labor's Blown! - parody - YouTube


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