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500N 12th Feb 2014 05:04


Dead right.

A day or two ago I posted a link to an article about Toyota and the Unions
and how the unions didn't budge on allowing Toyota to take some changes
to the workforce.

If you haven't read it, I would suggest you do so.

It is pig headiness that has almost certainly gone a long way to
the decision or maybe it was the icing on the cake, the tipping
point, the one thing Toyota could control that just wasn't happening.

The end result is, no one has a job.

IMHO, the unions should have bent over backwards for Toyota
because the changes they wanted to make (and listed in the
article) we just darn right over the top.

80% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

SOPS 12th Feb 2014 05:07

Meanwhile, the marriage of the year continues to grow legs
61yo man charged over alleged marriage of 12yo daughter in Hunter region - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

500N 12th Feb 2014 05:11

Someone asked the other day or quoted Coles / Woolworths market share at 90%.

It is actually 72.5% and Aldi now has 10% and growing.

So 2 shops have nearly 3/4 of the market.

Not good for anyone.

Jeps 12th Feb 2014 05:15

Isn't it a matter of how long can you flog a dead horse? We are unable to make enough cars for the right price in the this country and so it is no longer viable. I don't want Toyota or any company (Coca-Cola Amatil) getting my money for no good reason. Thats capitalism for you, you take the good with the bad and if you cant stand on your own two feet then its lights out. I detest crony capitalism and we now know it was one of the primary factors that caused the GFC (yet it still goes on).

I would much rather the Govt. spend the money of retraining and tranisitoning the workers onto other things, easier said than done I know but most of the workers could be put to work doing other things.

500N 12th Feb 2014 05:20


What is interesting is the comments on Tariffs and after 2017, they could be taken away as we no longer have a car manufacturer to protect.

Result will be significantly cheaper cars, especially at the high end.

Ken Borough 12th Feb 2014 05:21


This is goog news. I hope the authorities can get hold of more of these bastards but I suspect the cone of silence will mitigate against them. We don't need such
Low, evil excuses for human beings in our midst preying on innocent children, no matter what their 'culture' or belief. :E:E:E


Yes,I've read the Fairfax article. It's undeniable that the high cost of labor contributed to the Toyota decision but that was one factor of many. It is most unseemly for Hockey to be having a public spat with Toyota. Even more so to reveal the contents if what was supposed to be a private conversation for a dodgy political purpose. Will anyone in the future confide in Hockey? I think he's damaged his questionable credibility.

Hockey was rabbiting on about tariffs on the radio today. He said that their abolition will form part of future budget discussions. More importantly, now that we really don't have a car industry, will Abbott still proceed to roll-back the changes to the FBT loopholes that the previous Govt sought to close?

500N 12th Feb 2014 05:24


Agree, it was one of many, definitely.
Also agree re Hockey on all points.

I think the unions were getting enough of a kicking without revealing
what was said in a Private meeting.

500N 12th Feb 2014 05:25


"now that we really don't have a car industry, will Abbott still proceed to roll-back the changes to the FBT loopholes that the previous Govt sought to close?"

What were they ?

I have gone blank re them.

Ken Borough 12th Feb 2014 05:36


I'm not totally full-bottle but it seems that there are squillions of mostly imported cars out there the subject of salary packages that do not attract FBT because if a loophole. Against opposition from the salary packaging industry supported by the then Opposition, the Gillard Govt legislated to close the loop-hole with a several billion dollar positive impact on Govt finances over the next four years. Like it or not, it's just another form of welfare that's enjoyed by Abbott's constituency. There's plenty on the www thingy if you care to search for it. :ok:

500N 12th Feb 2014 05:38


Yes, I was doing some www'ing while waiting for your reply.

I can't complain, I did Salary packaging for years. One of the few legal ways to decrease taxable income for tax purposes so not opposed to it.

Ken Borough 12th Feb 2014 06:03

Well, we'll have to disagree. The FBT activity with respect to car leasing is a rort, nothing more, nothing less. It disadvantages every Australian. It may have spawned a parasitic industry that employs a few hundred people but it also contributed to the demise of the Australian motor industry as the packaging meant that imported cars became more attractive than the home built product. I bet close to 80% or more of the grotesque SUVs that are on our streets and roads are there because of salary packaging. Only a very small proportion of them are used for primary production and towing boats and caravans.

I can't blame anyone for legitimately trying to reduce their tax liability but sthere's too much going on what with salary packaging, negative gearing, excessive superannuation contributions, trusts etc etc. They are all legal but at what cost to the Nation.

500N 12th Feb 2014 06:10


All fair points and true. I have taken advantage of most of the one's listed
in your last paragraph (except trusts).

But we don't make the rules, just abide by them. Not my fault the Gov't made the rules the way they did.

You'll be glad to know with the exception of the Magna, all my major large cars have been Holden Commodore Station wagons :ok:

Ken Borough 12th Feb 2014 06:19

Legitimate tax loopholes are rorts. They are generally only available to the better-off in our midst. And quite often the better-educated. This does not mean that the loopholes should remain available. They have a negative impact on the tax base, and do little to help society except to reduce the tax liability of these better-off individuals. Sure, we all want to pay less tax but at the same time, we are expecting more and more from our governments. Something has to give, and I believe a fair and equitable way is to get rid of the rorts.

End of rant!

500N 12th Feb 2014 06:28


Yes, agree, all valid points. I have no qualms about taking advantage of them
and I am sure other people have no qualms either but they are rorts.

I must be ill, I think I have agreed with you 3 times in a few days on this thread,
I better go and lie down :O

Andu 12th Feb 2014 07:57

From the Pickering site.

Given the billions of dollars the government (=the taxpayer) has given to Holden, Ford and Toyota over the last few years to keep them here, surely, when those companies close shop, the factories and the plant in those factories should revert to the commonwealth? The commonwealth should mothball the premises and maintain them so that, should the world situation change dramatically and Australia needs to resurrect its manufacturing industry without considering economics as the overriding factor (the year 1942 comes to mind), we would have something to build it on.

Fliegenmong 12th Feb 2014 08:10

Joe Hockey, Toyota at odds whether union to blame for car maker's closure

I saw that article also Ken, made me think of what a slow learner Joe must be after being caught out on the same lie with SPC just last week?

Still he's a lovely 'lil larikan Joe! His dishonesty sorta rings a bell with a certain Aussie psych, that infatuation with criminal behaviour being somehow 'underdog glamorous', like Ned Kelly, and that Chopper Reid fellow, and indeed by the way 'marketing gurus' are trying to capitalise on Corby....or the success of that show (underbelly?...don't watch TV myself, Mrs Fliegs does)

Joey could make it a Trifecta in under a month...good going in anyones books! :D

The last thing they're going to do is tell the unpalatable truth to the media at this time.

Why not! Do they not have the courage of their convictions? Why wouldn't they? Umm Ahh & Joey are happy enough to do so.

Even the one called 'BGA' in the Dunnunda threads has cajones suitably sized to do so!!

Andu 12th Feb 2014 08:28

Why not! Do they not have the courage of their convictions?
In a word, Fleigs.. no. They're businessmen. Businessmen who are trying to run a failing operation at as small a loss as possible. They'll tell any lie, grease any palm (the union leadership comes immediately to mind) to minimise their losses up until the day they close the doors for the last time.

Fliegenmong 12th Feb 2014 08:40

Interesting post from someone far smarter than I, up in the Dunnunda threads..

The destruction of the Australian automotive industry is just a taste of what Tony Abbott has in store for you.

The poster has been 'spot on' on several occasions....and slightly off on others I'll admit....

In a word, Fleigs.. no. They're businessmen. Businessmen who are trying to run a failing operation at as small a loss as possible. They'll tell any lie, grease any palm (the union leadership comes immediately to mind) to minimise their losses up until the day they close the doors for the last time.

So these Captains of Indusrty, Doyens of the free market, are none but Union collaborators.........co-conspirators...but are they really businessmen as such? Are they not employees of Toyota Australia?

david1300 12th Feb 2014 08:56

Anyone remember this from just under 2 years ago?:

"MARK COLVIN: So, $275 million is the price State and Federal Governments are prepared to pay General Motors to keep making cars and components at Holden plants in Australia.

The Prime Minister says it's not a handout but a "strategic co-investment" made necessary by the strong Aussie dollar and the lack of a level global playing field.

JULIA GILLARD: The good news is that the future of General Motors is now secure in this country for the next decade."

PM - Holden secures $275m to stay in Australia till 2022 22/03/2012

And this:

"SABRA LANE: It follows a commitment of $35 million for Ford in January this year, guaranteeing production of Ford motorcars in Australia until 2016.

Automotive policy is a vexed area for both the Government and the Opposition. Under Kevin Rudd the Federal Government commissioned a review which led to the $6.2 billion New Car Plan in 2008.

But elements of that package were axed last year by Julia Gillard, leading to anger in the industry about uncertainty and inconsistency."


SOPS 12th Feb 2014 09:10

So do we get the 275 mill back?

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