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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 9th Feb 2014 23:27

I think TA is right on the money by the level of squealing.

Also, in the Age today, an interesting article from the CEO of Boral
and the tactics used by the CFMEU against his company when they
are not even in dispute with them :rolleyes:

Ken Borough 9th Feb 2014 23:34

Abbot's Royal Commissions are politically driven, designed to produce political outcomes. If the Guvmint was truly interested in putting corruption and other criminal activity to an end, it should have the Crime Commission and police investigate any and all alleged wrong-doings. Police etc can lay charges and prosecute: a Royal Commission can only make recommendations to prosecute. In turn, the police etc have to collect the evidence, review it and then decide if the evidence is strong enough for charges to be laid with a reasonable probability of conviction. Royal Commissions of the nature Abbott puts in train are really a waste of money and vindictive. And while Abbott is looking at the unions, it would be a good idea for him to include the corporate crooks in his sights as there are plenty of them leading the life of Riley. :E

500N 9th Feb 2014 23:38

But Ken, Corporate Tax evasion is legal :O

Ken Borough 9th Feb 2014 23:57

I think, 500N, that while tax avoidance may be legal, tax evasion is not. (forgive me if I'm wrong but in my old age I do tend to confuse the two issues! :{). There is also the small matter of insider trading - difficult to prove but alive and well. Just recently there was apparently and 'open and shut' example of insider-trading that ASIC declined not to pursue. Dr Google may be your friend if you want to read about it.

If bribery in the union movement is what it's reported to be, don't forget that there are two parties to any bribe. Surely if anyone or any corporation or other incorporated body is forced to pay a bribe, then it ought be immediately reported to the police. Don't think for a minute that corporate Australia is as pure as the driven snow!

Airey Belvoir 10th Feb 2014 00:10

Perhaps if the "left" weren't so blinkered they might realise that a Royal Commission such as this will expose the shonky dealings of big business as well as the unions. And with the unremitting glare of public scrutiny it would be a brave police force which refuses to follow through on any recommendations. In any event if the incontrovertible legal evidence falls slightly short it will stop shonky dealings on both sides of the fence.

500N 10th Feb 2014 00:24

"Just recently there was apparently and 'open and shut' example of insider-trading that ASIC declined not to pursue. Dr Google may be your friend if you want to read about it.

You mean the David Jones, 2 Directors purchased shres the day after the Myer offer and 3 days before the release of sales data showing an increase in sales !
All with the permission of the Chairman :rolleyes:

Yes, that did raise more than a few eyebrows but for some reason no prosecution.

" Don't think for a minute that corporate Australia is as pure as the driven snow! "

I never said it was. Business is business.

gupta 10th Feb 2014 01:09

Most of the criticism of the inquiry seems to centre around the concept of business bribing the unions, and yes in that case both parties could be considered at fault.

However, what seems to be under the spotlight is the union demanding money/favours/whatever backed up by threats - this is not bribery but extortion, and given some of the threats that have been publicised I would not blame any of the recipients under duress for not informing the authorities.

Ken Borough 10th Feb 2014 02:55

So a convicted drug smuggler has been released from prison in Bali. The SMH is reporting 'Media vehicles were tailing the van in which Corby is riding, which also seemed to have a TV crew from Channel Sevenís Sunday Night program on board'.

Whatever happened to the 'proceeds of crime' legislation? Just as a criminal is not supposed to profit from a criminal offence, surely media should also be so prevented. They also should be banned from paying any convicted criminal wheresoever for an interview covering the conviction. I agree that we must have a free media but there are some limits such as libel and profiting from crime.

500N 10th Feb 2014 03:00

I am sick of the Corby saga, no reading much of it and certainly not watching any of the BS on TV.

Worrals in the wilds 10th Feb 2014 03:10

IIRC, unfortunately proceeds of crime doesn't apply to foreign earnings.

At least there was a small victory for common sense and taste last night when the INXS biopic (which was very good) trumped the Shapelle biopic in the ratings with 2.8 to 1.3 million viewers. Even Rake didn't do much worse with nearly 945,000. :ok:
Schapelle v INXS: who won the ratings war

I think all the fuss that the media have made over Corby is very out of step with public opinion. With all the covered face crap and pap feeding frenzy, it's tacky television at its worst :yuk:, and I don't think people like it at all. I haven't heard or read one positive thing about the media's behaviour over this, even from people who believe Corby was innocent. She's not a frigging Kardashian FFS :ugh:. Seven and Nine should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

500N 10th Feb 2014 03:14


Agree. It was satisfaction that INXS trumped Ch 9.

The only negative of the INXS one was god it made me feel old :rolleyes:
(and remember how much freer and more care free society was then ! :O)

Clare Prop 10th Feb 2014 03:27

I understand the difference between a Royal Commission and a police investigation is that under a RC there is no right to remain silent. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, cops are pretty unionised themselves aren't they? Lots of bent coppers around. I bet the ALP are very busy calling in some favours and reminding people where the bodies are buried right now.

I have personally been the recipient of threats by a shop steward on day one in a new job, held up against a hot packing machine by the throat and threatening to burn my house down if I didn't join the LHMU (now United Voice)...the stupid c*** didn't realise I was management, he was nothing but a lazy thug. And I as someone who grew up in the UK in the 70s have absolutely zero time for union thuggery.

There seems to be an awful lot of money sloshing about in these unions, enough even to satisfy the likes of Thompson with his voracious appetites, yet I understand they pay NO tax and have NO accountability to ANYHONE including the bods who are having there dues forcibly deducted from their pay each week?

500N 10th Feb 2014 03:41


That sounds reminiscent of the BLF.

I am sure he endeared himself to you for the rest of your time there.

Ken Borough 10th Feb 2014 03:42

I have personally been the recipient of threats by a shop steward on day one in a new job, held up against a hot packing machine by the throat and threatening to burn my house down if I didn't join the LHMU (now United Voice)...the stupid c*** didn't realise I was management, he was nothing but a lazy thug. And I as someone who grew up in the UK in the 70s have absolutely zero time for union thuggery
What an unfortunate experience! As you don't have any time for union thuggery, I assume that you reported the assault to the police and that your employer terminated the services of the thug. If neither occurred, any complaints now would ring hollow. BTW, is there a place anywhere for any kind of thuggery?

Clare Prop 10th Feb 2014 04:03

I told him he was a stupid ***and I didn't think he would want managers infiltrating his precious union so to let me go. He was that thick he had no idea who I was or what job I was there for, he just wanted to threaten someone to stroke his ego and make him look tough in front of his workmates. Rather like Reg in Life of Brian, he was always exempted from anything remotely like work or picketing as he "had a bad back".

A witness reported it to the HR guy and he asked me if I wanted to press charges. I said no, I wasn't going to give the stupid **** any oxygen and was going to rise above it and get on with my work. What was the point? He was entrenched for life, the company were terrified of him. A few people finally had the guts to quit the union after that, so he got some karma.

500N 10th Feb 2014 04:54

Media reports Toyota set to announce they will leave Aus in 2017 :rolleyes:

A sad day if it happens.

bosnich71 10th Feb 2014 05:31

Ken .... this is getting out of hand. I'm finding myself agreeing with you yet again ! Not on the R.C. thing I might add but definitely on the female drug smuggler.
Whilst agreeing with those on here ref. "union thugs" I have to say that from past experience there are also "business thugs" out there. In fact one of the persons named by the press in their latest 'expose' of union thuggery and the demanding of kick backs from companies , beside his business of Crane hire, is also known to be used by companies to issue warnings against those who do not toe the company line.
If T.A. is to be seen by everyone to be doing the right thing then the Royal Commission that he sets up should look at all aspects of 'thuggery, kick backs etc. as Airey has stated earlier, i.e. investigate all who partake in dodgy practices as I can assure you they are not just blue collar.

Airey Belvoir 10th Feb 2014 05:51

The way I understand it is that it is going to be a wide-ranging inquiry with the Terms of Reference written to encompass the business side of things.

As Clare points out, there is no right to silence with a Commission and that's what the unions are running scared of. I have no doubt that 'big business' is also trying to call some favours in at the moment as they are probably equally nervous but they appear to be doing it on the quiet instead of squealing like stuck pigs probably because, on balance, they have less to fear of the truth coming out.

Ken Borough 10th Feb 2014 06:11

I'd love to think that the Royal Commission will be open and even-handed but......those two senators from the uber-right (Brandi's and Abetz) will be co-ordinating any Federal Govt work. You got it - George the travel router and Eric who led Turnbull up the garden path with the 'Utegate' affair. What a tag team of fair minded and balanced politicians? :E. These blokes make Peter Reith look like a moderate! :{

Ovation 10th Feb 2014 06:19

While no doubt some companies are implicated in corrupting union officials, it helps if you understand the process that makes it happen.

Let's say a company wants to grow business and needs more room and be more efficient about the way it does things. They decide to construct a distribution warehouse with advanced automated sortation conveying equipment and it's going to cost $30M and take 18 months lead time. Not everyone has that sort of cash in the bottom drawer, so they'll establish a borrowing facility with a bank. The profitability of the development will be based on may things, but primarily increased business volume, more efficient material handling, gain and advantage over competitors and importantly, complete on time.

A project that size will attract the interest of the unions, and maybe not straight away but once they reach a point of no return, the unions start to heavy the company with the simple choice: play it our way or (1) you'll move into the new warehouse 18 months late or (2) or you'll never move in at all. I've seen a warehouse mechanical installation that would take about 3-4 months take more than 15 months, through sheer union bastardry.

SO what does the company do? Go to the police and tell them some union thug has made threats but then offered to sort it out for a brown paper bag full of cash? Either (1) or (2) will be virtually guaranteed, but the company still has to service the development loan and may/will make a loss and have to answer to the shareholders - the viability of the entire business is at stake here. The police will never act on these sort of complaints - never.

Or make a value judgement and sling 100K to the union thug and put it down to the cost of doing business? It's the easy way but the wrong way, but the reason why it happens is because the unions are a protected species, and it costs you and me every time we go shopping at Coles, Target, pass through and airport etc.

It's a protected extortion racket - no other way to describe it.

Then there's the really big construction companies that collude with each other to muscle out competitors from their turf. With the assistance of the union thugs any other companies are advised not to bid for a project unless they want to go broke doing it.

Been there and done that, and seen some fine companies run by competent people go belly up, because management though they would could resist the unions, or dared to venture onto the big boys turf.

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