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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 8th Feb 2014 22:32

Bosnich

I think the extreme heat over the last two weeks might have affected you :rolleyes:

Suggested you stay out of the sun ;) :O

rh200 8th Feb 2014 22:36


how are the upper echelon going to find people able to afford the rents of their investment properties??
I have a investment property, looks like I have made it and am part of the "upper echelon". Here I was just thinking I was a struggling bogan:{.

bosnich71 9th Feb 2014 00:58

500N ..... even the Dog followed me inside, after his walk, this morning, and that's the first time in his 12 years. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/sowee.gif

7x7 9th Feb 2014 02:29


If pilots need food stamps they have themselves to blame for accepting those working conditions.
Maybe not exactly pertaining to pay levels, but certainly to conditions and promotion within the industry: we received the annual Christmas letter from one of my wife's school friends, someone we haven't seen in quite a few years - (which will be explained as you read on).

In it, the friend said that hubby, with his 70th birthday fast approaching, is still flying for Qantas domestic. Hubby wasn't always a Qantas pilot - he joined them in that-year-we-dare-not-mention-here - and is still there at age 69.9.

Is it any wonder the young pilots can't get promotion when the senior pilots hang on to their hard-won (hmmmm!) jobs as long as thissss... particular pilot has?

500N 9th Feb 2014 04:46

70 ?

I hope I have tHat level of health at that age.

But your sentiments are correct.

dubbleyew eight 9th Feb 2014 05:36

hogwash to those sentiments.

as a passenger I would rather a 70 year old pilot in perfect physical health with 30 years of experience behind him flying me than some young guy who's only experience is instructing in an aero club for 250 hours.

chuboy 9th Feb 2014 05:57


Originally Posted by rh200 (Post 8308117)
I have a investment property, looks like I have made it and am part of the "upper echelon". Here I was just thinking I was a struggling bogan:{.

Sorry to say it's true. The way things are most of the upcoming generation won't ever be able to buy a house to live in, let alone an investment property.

Sure, interest rates are low as anything, but with our overvalued real estate these days the deposit is out of reach for a larger chunk than days gone past. Add to that the lack of full-time, steady work (not casual/part-time) available to one (let alone two) cohabiting adults excludes even more from ever getting a mortgage large enough for a suitable home approved. And no it's not as simple as moving to the country to get your cheap house because you won't find a job that will allow you to pay off the mortgage. And as for buying a cheaply-constructed McMansion in some estate in the outer suburbs, spending 4 hours of your life a day getting fat sitting in traffic (on roads built and maintained just for you by the taxpayer) just so you can say you own a house well need I say more :yuk:

Still, if you have an investment property to rent out (or you're set to inherit one) you're set. A good deal of Gen Z and Y and even some of Gen X are set to be renting until the day they die or get put into a nursing home. So congrats on being part of the 1% :ok:

Worrals in the wilds 9th Feb 2014 08:32


Is it any wonder the young pilots can't get promotion when the senior pilots hang on to their hard-won (hmmmm!) jobs as long as thissss... particular pilot has?
Hasn't the industry expanded enough to compensate though? I don't have any ready stats to hand, but there seem to be far more flights, airlines and aircraft zinging around Australia than there were even fifteen years ago. Aren't there more Australian pilots now than there were in That Year? :confused:

I wouldn't want to see a return to mandatory retirement ages in any profession/line of work if it meant pushing out people who are capable of doing the job; IMO selection should be purely performance based, otherwise it's inherently unfair. A person who can pass the medical shouldn't be excluded due to their age.

Add to that the lack of full-time, steady work (not casual/part-time) available to one (let alone two) cohabiting adults excludes even more from ever getting a mortgage large enough for a suitable home approved.
Agreed. Without pitching into the affordability debate (which tends to get bogged down in more comparative statistics and modelling than the TV cricket coverage :ooh:) it's much harder to get loans if you're a contract worker or self employed, and there's a lot more of that around than there used to be. From what I hear 'round the campfire banks still like to see the word 'permanent' on a payslip before they hand over big wads of cash, and current workforce trends are moving against that :(.

Airey Belvoir 9th Feb 2014 09:10


The way things are most of the upcoming generation won't ever be able to buy a house to live in, let alone an investment property

Who cares! Just sold our "investment property" close to the beach at Cottesloe - now I can look forward to international air travel sitting in the comfortable pointy end!!

rh200 9th Feb 2014 10:42


Still, if you have an investment property to rent out (or you're set to inherit one) you're set. A good deal of Gen Z and Y and even some of Gen X are set to be renting until the day they die or get put into a nursing home
Not sure if its that bad, maybe its just going back to days gone by. Remember the great grandparents who saved your years scimping on every thing, then spent the rest of their lives paying it off.

A significant amount of them could afford one if they didn't blow money on p!ss, latest smart phone, designer this etc etc.

Theres still places out there advertising land and packages for less than rents. Location location.

500N 9th Feb 2014 10:46

rh200

Was going to say the same thing re not blowing it.

Set yourself up and then have fun, most people have fun and then
struggle to set themselves up.

chuboy 9th Feb 2014 11:36


Originally Posted by 500N (Post 8308760)
Set yourself up and then have fun, most people have fun and then
struggle to set themselves up.

Of course some people do that, it's been that way since the invention of money. The problem is the growing number of people who could not afford to buy if they saved every penny they earn. House prices have inflated faster than wages so you aren't comparing apples to apples RE: what you had to sacrifice vs what must be sacrificed these days.


A significant amount of them could afford one if they didn't blow money on p!ss, latest smart phone, designer this etc etc.
I'm not so sure. Let's be realistic, a smart phone bundled into your phone plan that you keep for years is not the difference between getting a house deposit and being stuck in a grimy rental. Equally, people are spending less on things you spent a lot of money on as a young 'un. Technology changes, things you used to need aren't a necessity anymore and things which you think are luxuries are really not if you don't want to get left behind.

People typically imagine some spoiled kid driving around in a new car, new laptop, new phone, nice new clothes from Myer/DJs/Abercrombie et al, going out every Friday and Saturday and then whinging that they can't afford a house with a pool and media room ten minutes from work/uni/whatever. Of course there are some people like that, just as there would have been 30-40 years ago. Ironically most of these types have wealthy parents and will, in time, acquire houses of their own without great personal sacrifice. They'll do ok.

It's the others who are still living at home in their 20s, working whatever casual jobs they can get, driving an old bomb or borrowing the family car or taking the bus or riding a bike, not drinking or going out anywhere or going on holidays. If they mooch entirely off their parents and save every penny it'll be 2-3 years at least before they have a deposit on a house, which as mentioned before is not a guarantee of a mortgage anyway unless you have "stable" employment. Eventually some people start families and have to rent houses of their own, the chances of ever getting a house diminish all the time and their rent money goes to a landlord somewhere in the country/world. (I suppose that must be the good kind of wealth redistribution? :ouch:)

And then I'm sure there would be a few people who are flagrantly spending what they earn because they figure there's no way they're getting a house before they turn 30 in the current market so they might as well live it up before they aren't recovering from hangovers like they used to ;)

Back when you purchased your first house "the market" was nothing like it was today. You didn't have competition from rich locals taking advantage of tax deductions on negatively-geared property losses, or wealthy Chinese investors looking to buy something material before their currency tanks, and getting your first job was as easy as asking the foreman for a go of it. One income was enough to get a decent mortgage approved and while the interest rates were higher the deposit was not. So it's horses for courses.

It's easy to say "who cares" and I probably would be tempted to as well if I had the luxury of owning multiple properties. After all it's not your problem and quite probably it will stay that way for the rest of your lifetime. But a great chunk of our future retirees having no house to live in spells big issues down the track. Superannuation + pension won't be enough for everyone to live on if there is the going rate for rent to pay as well. Someone has to pay eventually. But since none of this is likely to affect your interests before you die the big question really is "why should I care about anybody else". Why indeed...

500N 9th Feb 2014 11:55

"It's the others who are still living at home in their 20s, working whatever casual jobs they can get, driving an old bomb or borrowing the family car or taking the bus or riding a bike, not drinking or going out anywhere or going on holidays. If they mooch entirely off their parents and save every penny it'll be 2-3 years at least before they have a deposit on a house,"

Yes, agree, that would be the case if you sit on your arse every day.

Up until a few years ago, plenty of jobs going around the mines if not in them.

One bloke up Jabiru way (NT), $60k+ for washing down the showers, work areas (yes, including the dunnies) after the work shift had gone home. It's not brain surgery if people look. The problem is, some people are don't have the incentive to get up and get a job at the lowest level because they can get paid similar or more on welfare.

Heaps of ways if you really want it . If you can put up with a bit of BS for 4 weeks of a recruit course by joining the Army Reserve, you can then get paid to learn a trade in addition to any other jobs you have. All of it tax free part time employment. That was worth a fair bit to me as a Uni Student and that was as a Private soldier. It was only later I decided to go on and earn more at higher ranks. Hell, you can't even get sworn or shouted at now for cocking up, let along being told to do push ups in the mud as punishment.
Recruits get $82 a day, Private Soldier (Non trade qualified) $97 a day.
If you do a 100 days a year (which used to be the maximum you could do),
that is $10,000 tax free a year.

And if you are unemployed and getting unemployment benefits so have plenty of time, "extra" work always comes up in the Army Reserve that you can volunteer for = more pay on top of your unemployment benefits.

Lets just say join the Army Reserve - while on unemplyment benefits - 4 week recruit course, go to a Transport or a RAEME Squadron - get Army driving license for heavy goods vehicles or become a diesel mechanic - so lets say 2 - 3 years. Wait another year or two, get a job in the mines earning $100k a year driving a dumper. If someone had done that 10 - 15 years ago, they would be set by now.

Worrals in the wilds 9th Feb 2014 12:35


It's the others who are still living at home in their 20s, working whatever casual jobs they can get, driving an old bomb...
Been there, got the T-shirt. Mind you, it wasn't an old bomb to me... it was a car! If I'd hung onto it it'd probably be vintage now :\.

Okay, so I had to carry a spare Commodore around in the boot :} and I learned a hell of a lot about car maintenance (some of it by the side of the road :() but hey, I got there most of the time.

It's never been easy. It wasn't easy for our grandparents, our parents, us or you guys. If your hand doesn't shake when you sign the mortgage agreement then you didn't borrow enough :eek:. I jumped onto the mortgage hamsterwheel a couple of years ago and the last time I did the maths I've paid off about four square metres, so at least I own a toilet and a wash basin :}.

It's the others who are still living at home in their 20s, working whatever casual jobs they can get,
Again, been there, got the last guy's T-shirt ('don't worry, it's been washed, just tell everyone you're called Mark cos that what it says on the shirt' http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/pukey.gif). For younger people in the modern workforce, IMO the biggest goal should be to get off the casual treadmill ASAP. Find something permanent and work from there.

The casual job thing is a bigger hurdle than the fogeys like to admit, because most of them never experienced it. The average fogey went into the workforce as a permanent. Of course all too many of them discovered in mid or late life that the game had changed, but by then it was too late to change :(. In a way the young-uns are lucky that they've been brought up to expect inpermanent workforces where they're treated as a commodity. They don't have a misplaced sense of loyalty to companies that ditched the concept back when John Farnham was in the charts, and they're not left floundering when said company gets sold off to the Yanks who decide that canned beetroot isn't the next big thing.

The simple fact is that even in Australia the law of the jungle applies. Nothing comes for free, particularly financial security. Want a home and a good income? Then find your niche and work your butt off. Maybe that's just by being the best, hardest working labourer in the crew.

I've known many of them who've got their nice house, car, boat and annual trip to the Wherethefakawi River Camping Ground with the wife and kids. Almost always though, they're the guys who did all the Saturday night emergency overtime when the freeway was closed and no other bugger would show up. Other times they're the guys who cottoned onto a business opportunity that no-one else either wanted or thought of. Still other times they're the guys/girls who went off and studied a trade or profession that suited their skills (often at night around their 'real' job and family commitments) and ended up being successful, whether it was in medicine, nursing or plumbing.

Either way, you don't get something for nothing. Keep working casual jobs and/or spending up big and sure, mortgages will be out of the question. Find your niche and work hard at it, and it's a different story. The whole thing can seem overwhelming when you're just starting out, but as Woody Allen once said; 80% of success is showing up. IMO the other 20% is being nice to everyone and working your arsse off :E.

One way or the other, no-one gives you a break on a plate. Didn't happen in the 1930s and it doesn't happen now. No fate but what you make...:}, and that's from a leftie. It may not be nice, but that's the way it is.

500N 9th Feb 2014 12:46

Worrals

Well put. mine was a $400 Red Ford Escort, a bomb of a car but it got me from A to B. I am still a lousy mechanic though :O

Full time jobs do exist out there, even for unqualified people. GF's eldest son didn't get HSC last year, started one job,left after a week, got another job in a bakery / cafe full time, 6am - 2.30pm and the boss has offered him an apprenticeship.

Airey Belvoir 9th Feb 2014 13:41

I suspect that most, if not all, of us on this thread have done the hard yards.

My first car was a 1953 split screen Moggy Minor followed by an A35, a beat up Triumph Herald and a succession of Vauxhall Vivas and I didnít get my first new car until I was 33. My first mortgage was at 37 and the first time I owned a home outright was when I was 46. I will admit though, from thereon it has mostly been gravy - and as at yesterday Iíve now got the steaks as well.

500N 9th Feb 2014 13:57

"I suspect that most, if not all, of us on this thread have done the hard yards."

Certainly anyone who went through the "recession we had to have" and 17% interest rates. I consider myself lucky in that I signed up at the peak, even though I was earning peanuts I bit the bullet, had a house and not much in it for 4 years.
But I had the house and have never rented.

Pappa Smurf 9th Feb 2014 22:40

I remember buying a house and paying 17% interest.Actually it may have been 19% as it was an investment.
But I was a miner renting a fully furnished company house for $7 a week back then.

7x7 9th Feb 2014 23:22

Another example of the joys of multiculturalism...


A teenage girl has been sexually assaulted by a gang of men in Sydney's west.

In an attack police believe was unprovoked and random, the 14-year-old girl was initially assaulted by one man in Doonside before his friends joined on Saturday night.

The first man approached the teenage girl about 11pm (AEDT) in Bill Colbourne Reserve on Hill End Road, police say.

Police have been told the man touched the girl inappropriately before sexually assaulting her.

"The man's five friends then also sexually assaulted her," police said in a statement on Sunday night.

The group of men then fled the scene, leaving the girl to walk to a nearby home where police were called.

The girl was taken to hospital for treatment.

Local detectives, with assistance from the State Crime Command's sex crimes squad, are investigating.

The men are all described as being of African appearance and aged in their late teens to early 20s.

Anyone with information can call crime stoppers on 1800 333 000.

Airey Belvoir 9th Feb 2014 23:22

So, all the unions and their hierarchy, and all the Labor pollies are kicking off against the proposed judicial investigation into union power/corruption.


That's a sure sign that Tony is on the money http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/badteeth.gif


Perhaps someone ought to tell Ged Kearney that it was an election promise and that's why the Coalition were voted in.


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