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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Worrals in the wilds 5th Feb 2014 10:32


Perhaps the Australian government should busy itself in relaxing visa restrictions which they place on friendly countries and then there would be reciprocal arrangements put into place by those countries.
The people who make those decisions travel on Dip Passports and jump the queues already, so it's not a huge priority. :rolleyes:

bosnich71 5th Feb 2014 10:48

Worrals ..... Quite !

Richard W 6th Feb 2014 01:21


To add a further dimension to this imbecility, at the 1999 referendum on whether Australia should or should not become a republic, some tens of thousands of British citizens who were long term residents of Australia - AND WHO HAD NEVER BOTHERED TO TAKE OUT AUSTRALIAN CITIZENSHIP - so were not even dual citizens, were allowed to vote on whether we should retain the Queen as Head of State.

Only in Australia could something like that occur.
I'm pretty sure Australians living in Scotland will be able to vote in the referendum on Scottish independence - regardless of their immigration status.

bosnich71 6th Feb 2014 03:02

Richard ..... not just Australians either !
Meanwhile those citizens living overseas will dip out.

gupta 6th Feb 2014 05:09

Funny things these dual nationalities.

IIRC, Italian citizens resident in Oz, with Oz citizenship, were still able to vote in the last Italian General Election - by post, I think

Captain Sand Dune 6th Feb 2014 05:32


I'm pretty sure Australians living in Scotland will be able to vote in the referendum on Scottish independence - regardless of their immigration status.

IIRC, Italian citizens resident in Oz, with Oz citizenship, were still able to vote in the last Italian General Election - by post, I think
Donít take this the wrong way, but I donít give a fcuk what other countriesí policies on dual citizenship are. Australia needs to do what is best for Australians, and Iím pretty sure dual citizenship is not what the majority of Australians want.

Ken Borough 6th Feb 2014 05:41


Australia needs to do what is best for Australians
So true, Captain. I'm sure there would be unintended consequences were Australia not permit dual citizenship but surely these can be worked through. If not, stiff sh*t. If it's good enough to live permanently and indefinitely in a country, pay taxes and accept whatever benefits and advantages that country can offer, then surely it's good enough to become a citizen of that country to the exclusion of others. It's really quite simple.

500N 6th Feb 2014 05:46

"Australia needs to do what is best for Australians"

Until like anything that Australia tries to do along those lines
the huggy fluffies then say it is against this, that or the other
treaty that we are a signatory of, generally UN based.

Although I notice that TA et al seem to be ignoring quite a few
provisons in various treaties at the moment - Shark Cull, Tassie
forests, AS, UN reports :ok:

About time someone puts Australia first.

Andu 6th Feb 2014 07:09

That's one lesson we could - should - learn from the French. For the French, it's always been France first and **** rest of the world. I have to admit to having more than a little respect for them for that. French politicians seem to understand that French voters vote them into government and expect them to look after THEIR interests, not the interests of the rest of the world at the expense of French voters.

This (what would seem to me to be) rather self-evident fact of life seems to be lost on Australian politicians - on both sides of politics.

bosnich71 6th Feb 2014 08:02

I think Jocks living in England don't get a vote in the referendum either.


P.s what problems have been caused by dual citizenship ?
Genuine question as there seem to be a few on here wound up about it.
And, anyway the "rulers" are all for a global society and so there will soon be no borders and ergo, no dual or other citizens will there....national ones anyhow. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon7.gif

SOPS 6th Feb 2014 08:21

Does the Navy expect their life boat back?
 
Lifeboat carrying asylum seekers lands on Indonesia coast - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Fliegenmong 6th Feb 2014 12:21

Donít take this the wrong way, but I donít give a fcuk what other countriesí policies on dual citizenship are. Australia needs to do what is best for Australians, and Iím pretty sure dual citizenship is not what the majority of Australians want.

No argument here!....but I do understand there is the issue of a great many Brits holding dual citizenship......and from there...they're claiming welfare / benefits/ pensions from both nations??

The States would never allow it...:ok:

That said, and if I recall correctly, Uncle Rupert was happy enough to renounce his Australian citizenship in '85/'86 (?) to become a naturalised US citizen......but his massive Pro Liberal Party media empire here in Oz is accepted as gospel by an uncritical thinking mass majority....but that's Australia.....most unlike the French as defined in Andu's post below....:{

Oz politicians look after their own interests first...Abbott, Rudd, Howard & Gillard most immediately spring to mind....and they are inseparable in this sense at least.

Uncle Rupert uncannily knows when to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.....easily evidenced by newspaper front pages around election dates...

500N 6th Feb 2014 12:27

"but his massive Pro Liberal Party media empire here in Oz is accepted as gospel by an uncritical thinking mass majority"

No different to the Pro Labor / Greens ABC and other lefty organs here in Aus,
except most of the supporters don't think, let along critically ;)

CHAIRMAN 6th Feb 2014 12:39


Does the Navy expect their life boat back?
SOPS, they'll probably get it back in a couple weeks, or as soon as the latest batch can get it refuelled:ok:

Clare Prop 6th Feb 2014 12:47

Fliegs why shouldn't someone who has paid their National Insurance contributions be allowed to claim their pension? It's a form of superannuation, not welfare.

I worked in the UK for 7 years before moving to another country then here. Seven years of contributions, frozen, won't come to much but I am entitled to it as it is a contributory scheme.

PENSION GUIDELINES for British Expatriates

I'm a dual citizen but my other (Jersey) passport expired decades ago and I haven't bothered to renew it.

dubbleyew eight 6th Feb 2014 12:52

huggy fluff logic slays me at times.
in WA they are catching, despatching, and removing large sharks off our beaches.
(something I totally agree with)

in a discussion today over lunch...
"oooh I'm totally against the government killing sharks."
oh, yeah. do you go swiming in the ocean?
"no never"
why not, its good fun.
"there are too many sharks out there"
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

that, seriously, was the discussion :}

Worrals in the wilds 6th Feb 2014 12:59


Uncle Rupert uncannily knows when to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.....easily evidenced by newspaper front pages around election dates...
Murdoch would sign up as a citizen of Hell if he thought it would sell a few papers, so I doubt that renouncing his Australian citizenship caused him any grief. Skase was another one who was happy to become ex-Australian, which caused his wife all sorts of heartache when she wanted to move back 'home'.
PM - Pixie Skase to reapply for Australian passport

Kerry Packer never took citizenship of another country, let alone renouncing his Australian citizenship. Sure he wasn't as successful as Rupe, but IMO there's one true Australian media mogul and it ain't Murdoch. Murdoch transcends all borders, and not in a good way. :uhoh:

dubbleyew eight; re sharks, tell your friend to stay away from cars, cigarettes, alcoholic drinks, fatty food and lightning strikes. All bigger killers than sharks. I've considered putting baited drum lines in my local pub and on my street to catch drunks/cars and prevent needless deaths (I was going to bait them with free Big Mac meals and bottles of JD :E), but the council seems to be against it. Dunno why...:}

Airey Belvoir 6th Feb 2014 14:53

As an ex-Brit if you've worked and paid taxes in Australia you are entitled to apply for a pension here. However, if you do then Australia automatically assumes that you will be in receipt of a British aged pension and that has to be applied for and is then deducted from the Australian pension.


The British pension is fixed at that amount on the day it commences being paid. So, even though you may well have fully paid up national insurance contributions it will stay at the same amount until the day you die unlike Brits living in non-Commonwealth countries and in Britain where the pension is indexed linked.


Also, for those who have earned an occupational pension in Britain, such as the Armed Forces it will continue to be paid. It would be a fool who would turn down those payments. But perhaps Fliegenmong would be such a principled fool?


Additionally, if you happen to have been born in Britain then you may renounce your British citizenship but Britain does not renounce you. You will always be British (in their eyes) and can return, prodigal son-like, at any time.


Just my two pennyworth to counteract some of the uninformed crap which is being written on here.

Andu 6th Feb 2014 21:53

I think few would disagree that the British who moved to Australia up until the mid 60s saw themselves - and were seen by the Australian government and people - as a special case, for we were (emotionally at least) still not much more than a colony of Britain in most peoples' eyes and most Australians (the rather large group of Irish ancestry perhaps excepted) were quite proud to say they were British.

The large number of Poles, Yugoslavs, Greeks and other Europeans who came here in the post WW2 years saw that attitude watered down considerably, until today, you'd be hard-pressed to find an Australian not born in the UK and under the age of 70 who felt any special relationship with Britain. (Some here will doubtless disagree with me, but I believe the vast majority of Australians who want to retain the monarchy do so only because they are suspicious or even afraid of what the politicians - who they hold in very low regard - will come up in the hidden clauses they string into whatever replaces it.)

So I accept that many Brits who've taken out Australian citizenship but who retain their British passports as well feel they are a special case. But they're by no means the only ones who would be very unhappy to see dual citizenship stopped. The Lebanese (by no means an insignificant group, both in numbers and in influence in Australia any more) are a case in point. If they surrender their Lebanese citizenship, they cannot own or inherit property in Lebanon. I think similar restrictions apply in some other countries.

I feel that when the Whitlam government, (isn't it amazing how often we say those two words when discussing the origins of some current disaster?), in an effort to get more people who would vote Labor onto the polls, reduced the residency requirement for citizenship to two years, they cheapened Australian citizenship to a huge degree in the eyes of the people who had, until then, been eagerly seeking it. It became a convenience, something a migrant could have before he or she had been here long enough to become even partially assimilated, to the point we have today with too many people who live here, where they are openly dismissive, even disparaging, of Australia, where many of them were born. They see themselves as "Hyphen Australians", the Hyphen, whatever it may be, very much in the ascendancy over the Australian for all too many of them.

It's for that reason I feel we should dispense with dual citizenship. (And sorry, Brits, but we'd have to include you, despite the special status you once enjoyed here.) People should be made to sit down and decide which of the citizenships they hold is more important to them. Those already living here who choose "the Hyphen" over their Australian citizenship should enjoy grandfather rights to remain here AS RESIDENTS, but they should lose the right to vote and perhaps other (monetary?) benefits of being a fully-fledged citizen.

500N 6th Feb 2014 22:32

Interesting article. I remember the headlines of most of them.

On the 40th anniversary of his career as one of Australia's most trusted economic commentators, Ross Gittins nominates the 10 reforms that helped transform Australia from closeted financial backwater to one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

1. Floating the dollar
Letting the market set the value of the Aussie dollar after December 1983 allowed it to fluctuate between US48c and $US1.10 so far, making it an absorber of shocks from the rest of the world. This has made the economy more stable and stopped the resources boom causing an inflation blowout.
Advertisement
2. Deregulating the banks
Introducing foreign banks and allowing banks to set their own interest rates made it much easier to get a loan and increased competition between banks and other lenders, but led to excessive lending to businesses and caused the deep recession of the early 1990s.
3. New taxes on capital gains and fringe benefits
In October 1985 Paul Keating announced new taxes but cut the top income-tax rate from 60 per cent to 49 per cent. He also abolished negative gearing, but reversed this under pressure from estate agents.
4. Removing import protection
In May 1988 Keating announced the virtual phasing out of the import duties and quotas imposed on most manufactured goods. Predicted demise of manufacturing industry did not materialise.
5. Privatising government businesses
Sale of the Commonwealth Bank began in 1991 and Qantas in 1992. The Howard government sold Telstra in three tranches from 1997. State governments sold their banks, insurance companies and some power producers and distributors.
6. Enterprise bargaining
In 1993 the Keating government ended centralised wage-fixing through a "national wage case" and introduced collective bargaining at the enterprise level. In 2005, Work Choices sought to promote individual contracts by reducing worker protections, further encumber unions and end reliance on industrial rewards. The Rudd government reversed the most extreme parts of Work Choices, but left much of it in force.
7. National competition policy
In 1995 Keating sought to encourage deregulation and privatisation by state governments and tighten the Trade Practices Act's restrictions on anti-competitive behaviour. Premiers tended to drag their feet.
8. Central Bank independence
In 1996 Peter Costello allowed the Reserve Bank to make its decisions independent of the elected government, endorsing its target of holding inflation between 2 per cent and 3 per cent, on average. The Reserve has raised interest rates more than a politician would - including during the 2007 election campaign - but this has kept inflation under tighter control than when politicians were in charge.
9. Goods and services tax
The start of the GST in 2000 came 25 years after it had been proposed by a major inquiry. It replaced wholesale sales tax and various unconstitutional or inefficient state taxes. Much death and destruction were predicted; little eventuated. But now GST is showing signs of wear and needs renovation.
10. Taxes on mining and carbon
Wayne Swan planned to raise huge sums from taxing miners' high profits and use the proceeds to give tax cuts and concessions to business and individual savers. He also used a tax to impose a price on carbon dioxide emissions. Both reforms were badly mishandled and Tony Abbott has pledged to reverse these reforms.


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