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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Fliegenmong 4th Feb 2014 09:17

That is a disgrace Ovation I agree......I've heard a saying about all men have a price, the honest are just more expensive....so thanks for posting the cost of the Liberal party :p You must be sure to post what they 'gifted' everyone in the next election year!

bosnich71 4th Feb 2014 09:31

Worrals .... re British with dual citizenship.
I'm sure that you are aware that in the Vietnam war years British citizens with residential rights in Australia, of call up age, i.e. the children of British migrants, were considered to be Australian citizens without taking any form of citizenship ceremony etc. As such they were liable for National Service, and many did fight, and die, in Vietnam. No one was worried about "dual citizenship' in those days and in my opinion they should not be too worried about it now ..... in the case of the Pommy Bastards anyway.


P.s Ken I think that you'll find that a large percentage of Australians volunteering to fight during the First war were British born.

Andu 4th Feb 2014 09:38

..and in 1914, (and for quite some years after that), those who weren't British born still considered themselves very much British.

Re you post on the previous page Ken, I have to agree with you. The whole concept of dual citizenship is wrong. I have a neighbour who holds four(!) passports, (Oz, Brit, Canuk and Irish) and is quite pleased with himself about it.

To add a further dimension to this imbecility, at the 1999 referendum on whether Australia should or should not become a republic, some tens of thousands of British citizens who were long term residents of Australia - AND WHO HAD NEVER BOTHERED TO TAKE OUT AUSTRALIAN CITIZENSHIP - so were not even dual citizens, were allowed to vote on whether we should retain the Queen as Head of State.

Only in Australia could something like that occur.

Fliegenmong 4th Feb 2014 09:43

Sharman Stone
 
Well she endears herself to the local voting populace, by calling TA & the Big Fella on their lies...does she see this gummint as a one termer?

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

The productivity commissions findings were going to be the basis for TA's future IR policy's..or so he said prior to the election....(not that anyone of sound & rational mind would believe anything 'Gospel Truth' ever says)

"It's quite right for SPC to put out a statement dispelling some of the untruths that a number of senior Coalition ministers have been putting out about workers," he said.

"It's outrageous that Federal Government ministers have been out and about lying about workers' conditions and trying to blame workers for the consequences of the Government's own decisions."

He says it is unusual for a union to get such a strong backing from an employer.


I'd say he's right!

Abbott, Hockey & Abetz must be ever so welcome guests at the Clifford / Joyce garden parties!

Fliegenmong 4th Feb 2014 09:45

Ha ha Andu!, just read your post, agree 100%

"Only in Australia could something like that occur."

Indeed!

500N 4th Feb 2014 09:57

Genuine question.

So do people think that an Australian company like Coca Cola Amatil
that makes millions of $$$ each year should be assisted by the Gov't ?


I know that area has been doing it very hard for a number of years
but I am sure they purchased Ardmona / SPC with eyes wide open.

Your thoughts ?

Fliegenmong 4th Feb 2014 10:22

Genuine Question 500? Aren't all of your questions genuine?? :p

I personally don't think that companies that make millions of $$ a year should be government assisted, no. Do you?

No doubt that Coca Cola Amatil did due diligence....a fiduciary requirement even?

My issue here though is that the Prime Minister, the Treasurer and the Minister for Employment have lied to the Australian people and rather than misrepresent the findings of the productivity commission, lie about them outright!

Thankfully as a counter to the MSM, we have the 'ALPBC', who reports this kind of stuff the MSM would never ever dare do first off....so they play "catch up".

Remember 'Utegate', the Ozcar affair, Godwin Grench, Abetz's apology to Turnbull and Rudd etc.? :rolleyes::ugh:

Yeah, the 3 of them ooze credibility, the way Rudd, red witch & the Bald headed band member used to!

Fliegenmong 4th Feb 2014 11:35

The silence is (Unusually) deafening in here tonight!?!?!:confused:

david1300 4th Feb 2014 11:52

Fliegs, your postings are becoming more desperate and frequent with each passing day. Not worth engaging in any discussion or debate, but seeing as you are so worked up over the issue and I haven't followed it word-for-word, can you please quote a single lie by Hockey or Abbot on the SPC issue.

Ken Borough 4th Feb 2014 12:09

From The Australian


Last week, Mr Abbott said it was crucial that SPC Ardmona completed a renegotiation of its enterprise agreement.

"There are wet allowances, there are loadings, there are extensive provisions to cash out sick leave, there are extremely generous redundancy provisions well in excess of the award.
From SPCA statement on 4th Feb



Claim: SPC Ardmona employees get “over generous” allowances.
Fact: The total allowances paid to SPC production staff in 2013 was $116,467, which represents less than 0.1%
of the business’s cost of goods for the year.

Claim: There is a generous “wet” allowance of 58 cents per hour for cleaners
Fact: Zero ($0.00) paid in 2013.

Claim: SPC Ardmona employees get nine weeks paid leave a year.
Fact: SPCA employees get 20 days annual leave.

Claim: a five-day Melbourne Cup long weekend.
Fact: Production staff accrue rostered days off (RDOs) during the year which SPCA requires them not to take during the peak season. Instead these RDOs are taken at the start of November, the optimum time for a plant shutdown to allow maintenance in preparation for the canning season from December to April. RDOs are not additional leave.

Claim: Sick leave is cashed out each year.
Fact: This was removed from the EBA in 2012.

Claim: Loading, or shift penalties are above the award.
Fact: SPCA’s are the same as industry standards and common to many Australian EBAs. Afternoon shift is at 20% and night shift at 30%.

Claim: Loadings on top of overtime.
Fact: Production workers do almost zero overtime.

Claim: Redundancy is in excess of the award.
Fact: This old condition was reduced in 2012 to a 52 week cap

....you be the judge as to certain persons' mendacity.

500N 4th Feb 2014 15:28

Fliegs

No, in most cases I don't think the Gov't should provide assistance.
"Due diligence" were the words I was trying to think of.
I think you know my views on the ALPBC :O


david1300
You think Fliegs is desperate and not worthy of debate ?
His rants are no worse than mine on the ABC and other issues,
albeit on the other side.

Worrals in the wilds 4th Feb 2014 19:55


Worrals .... re British with dual citizenship.
I'm sure that you are aware that in the Vietnam war years British citizens with residential rights in Australia, of call up age, i.e. the children of British migrants, were considered to be Australian citizens without taking any form of citizenship ceremony etc. As such they were liable for National Service, and many did fight, and die, in Vietnam. No one was worried about "dual citizenship' in those days and in my opinion they should not be too worried about it now ..... in the case of the Pommy Bastards anyway.
No I wasn't, thanks. Weren't Australians born before about 1950 deemed British subjects, and when that was changed a whole bunch of formerly British citizens born here became Australians? Would that be the group who were then natioed, or were they still non-citizens :confused: If so, it sounds very dodgy.

Ovation, I agree that sounds suss. The older I get the more cynical I become about most 'Aid' agencies :hmm:.

probes 4th Feb 2014 19:58


His rants are no worse than mine
well, that's something, 500N! :D

500N 4th Feb 2014 20:02

probes

:O :ok:


Re the Vietnam War, call up of Brits in Aus etc, some of them who didn't take out Aussie citizenship have been asked to leave Aus :rolleyes: I think it all got sorted in the end but it did make me wonder.

Re an Aussie joining a foreign Army, I thought you could join a foreign army
of a sovereign country ? (If of course they allow it).

Andu 4th Feb 2014 20:14

Worrals, as I understand it, anyone born in Australia before 26 Jan 1949 (26th Jan, Australia Day was used as the changeover date) was a British Subject and an Australian Citizen. As of 26th Jan 49, anyone born in Oz was "only" an Australian Citizen.

British Citizens who had taken up residence in Australia before a certain date (I can't quote it, but think it was some time in the early 50s) but who had not taken out Australian citizenship were allowed to vote. (See my comment above about the 99 referendum.) This might give some of the younger readers here an indication of how close many Australians felt to the Old Dart at the time - as late as the late 1950s, I'd say. As an example, my Grandmother, (and much if not most of here generation, I suspect), although she was born here in Oz, still referred to the UK as 'home'.

Re Brit passport holders and the conscription ballot of the 1960s, I can't quote an documentation, but I too understood that if a Brit was here as a permanent resident, his name went in the ballot. The same may have applied to Italians and Greeks etc who'd come out here as children but who had not taken up Australian citizenship.

I know from first hand experience that that was one of the (perhaps unintended) positives of conscription. Quite a few Anglo Australians met their first 'Wog' when they marched into Kapooka or Pukka, and in those days, 'the Wogs' (mostly, but not only Greeks and Italians) were looked upon by mainstream Australia very much the same as the Muslims from Lebanon and Iran are today. Within a few short months, fellow sufferers in basic training formed very firm friendships which went a long way in breaking down the barriers that once existed between the 'Skippies' and 'the Wogs'.

CoodaShooda 4th Feb 2014 20:16

As it is fashionable, in this post-"no carbon tax" era, to describe all political utterances as 'lies', you have to question why senior Cabinet members would make such easily rebutted claims.

I have no problem with the decision not to gift taxpayers' money to a cashed up and profitable multi national.

However, given Abbott & Co's subsequent erroneous comments on the decision, you have to question the quality of the advice being given to Cabinet.

Ian McFarlane (?) went into Cabinet supporting the assistance package, so his submission would have been supportive. The outdated information about the SPC EBA must have come from elsewhere.

Abbott should be looking at his information sources. When it comes to Cabinet deliberations, GIGO applies.

500N 4th Feb 2014 20:23

"I know from first hand experience that that was one of the (perhaps unintended) positives of conscription. Quite a few Anglo Australians met their first 'Wog' when they marched into Kapooka or Pukka, and in those days, 'the Wogs' (mostly, but not only Greeks and Italians) were looked upon by mainstream Australia very much the same as the Muslims from Lebanon and Iran are today. Within a few short months, fellow sufferers in basic training formed very firm friendships which went a long way in breaking down the barriers that once existed between the 'Skippies' and 'the Wogs'."


Andu

From older people I have spoken to, not sure I agree on your view that they were looked on the same as Muslims from Lebanon and Iran are today.
For a start you had a lot of Maltese, a great ally of Britain and was talking with an old one the other day, they don't forget.

Secondly, my understanding is they got a reputation for working hard which also went a long way to breaking down barriers - Snowy Scheme etc.

Just my HO.

parabellum 4th Feb 2014 22:09

Up until about 1972 Brits could reside in Australia without visa, when the UK joined the Common Market and demanded visas from Australians and Kiwis Australia changed it's laws to match. An aunt who had lived in Melbourne for twenty six years decided on a trip to UK, at the airport, on departure, she was told to get a visa in UK for her return and that would only be a visitors visa! Trip delayed 24 hours whilst she went to the immigration department and got residency stamped in her passport!

7x7 4th Feb 2014 22:43

Somebody tell me this is a neo-Nazi pisstake.


In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken.

Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with traditional Islamic jurisprudence.

Police Chief Al Hussein noted “Maria Heidelsohn had been politely requested at least two times that I know of personally to wear hijab that is to cover herself more modestly yet she refused, she even had the audacity and brazen effrontery to tell one Muslim man who made the request she was “not a Muslim.” This has been a majority Muslim area now for some time yet she showed absolutely no desire to accommodate the wishes of the majority in her community. She also earned the reputation of a whore having once been seen sipping coffee with a man who was not her husband and not believed to be a male relative shamelessly in broad day light, several people saw it and it continued for almost thirty minutes. She was seen smiling and laughing like the filthy kafir slut that she is.”

The Judge in Maria Heidelsohn’s case the Honourable Muhammed Akbar Khan himself a German of Pakistani Muslim ancestry announced in his decision “I have generously given Maria Heidelsohn four days for any eligible adult male Muslim witnesses to step forward in her case yet none have done so. It is indisputable that Maria Heidelsohn was wearing a revealing bathing suit, in fact a bikini at the time, she therefore encouraged and invited sexual advances from all men within sight of her. It is very clear that she was attempting wrongly and as the harlot to engage in the seduction game. In fact it is she who is the rapist in this case seducing men who were unable to withstand the lure of her indecency, corrupting good and devout Muslim men luring them into the sin of fornication through her gaze and uncovered state.” The eight men of Pakistani origin range in age from 18-35 and were released by authorities immediately after the ruling.

Heidelsohn has been sentenced to life in prison prompting outrage among local Muslims who insist that she should have received the death penalty for besmirching the names of several good Muslim family men, at last two of whom are studying to become clerics. Judge Akbar Khan has given the recommended stipulation that Heidelsohn can reduce her sentence to six months if she converts to Islam while in prison and agrees to marry one of the men she seduced and raped.

Radical right-wing German political parties with neo-Nazi symapthies and Islamophobic hate groups have seized upon the case of Maria Heidelsohn as evidence that multi-culturalism is failing in Germany. Germany’s largest political parties have conferred with German Muslim leaders and agreed to introduce stronger legislation to combat the rise of Islamophobia and racism across Europe and Germany in particular. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has proposed increased government surveillance and censorship of the media including television, newspapers, magazines and even online blogs in order to prevent the propagation of racist stereotypes and hate speech especially that of an Islamophobic nature.

Although several Muslim leaders did meet with Merkel, a small number of the clerics who were invited refused citing her gender and stating that it would be inappropriate for them to be talking with a woman. The clerics have made a counter offer instead agreeing to speak with Merkel’s husband. There is no word yet on whether or not Chancellor Merkel’s husband will meet with the Islamic leaders.

Racial and religious tension is at all time high in Germany as just last month a German youth offered half of a ham sandwich to a Muslim classmate who had forgotten his lunch. Muslim leaders believe that the six year old child was deliberately mocking Islam and was not ignorant of the fact that pork is forbidden for Muslims. Maria Heidelsohn’s lawyer states that she plans to appeal the case and refers to it as “A travesty of justice that would have been unthinkable anywhere in Europe just a few years ago. We really need to ask ourselves what sort of a society this is becoming. Of course I condemn racism and Islamophobia but we need to recognize that tolerance must be a two way street.”

Copyright © 2013 Diversity Chronicle All Rights Reserved.
Hmmmm... maybe it is a pisstake. The same magazine has this shocking story on its first page.


Male Chauvinists and anti-feminist activists have now taken the war on women to the next level, unleashing an indescribable reign of terror. Government offices, restaurants, libraries, public schools, parks and stores across the country report that males are entering restrooms and leaving the toilet seats up. Women’s rights activists believe that this is being done with malice and forethought as part of a deliberate plan to humiliate and frustrate women.
Male Chauvinists Unleash Toilet Seat Reign of Terror Across the U.S. | Diversity Chronicle

rh200 4th Feb 2014 23:01

It would have to be taking the piss. That said, media types, arts etc on all sides of politics have extrapolated scenarios ahead of time to try and make a point.

The sad thing is, in some parts of the world that scenario is a possibility. Though in said parts, its unlikely the females would go to the extremes of sun baking in the open like that.

What the real story is, that it highlights what a society is, and that is what actually makes up the body of its population. You can have all the constitutions, bills of rights and Magna Cartas in the world, but frankly there just a piece of paper. If you have enough of the population against it, they can just use them for toilet paper.

As for the toilet seat, women have been moaning about it for eons, about the only genuine moaning they do after marriage.:E


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