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Buster Hyman 11th May 2012 03:15

Actually Buster the ALP has been around longer than the ACTU by many years.However,the unions did realise that the real path to success was through political representation but that holds true for virtually any group in society including the employers and thus the conservative parties traditional power base..
I'll concede that point Lex. I'd used ACTU as a generalisation of the Trade Union movement at the time, but I have looked up their respective histories and, whilst they were closely aligned in ideology, the ALP did form independantly it seems.

That is what really sticks in the craw of conservative supporters.They can't stand the idea of the working class having political power but they don't mind having it themselves and therein lies the problem or at least one problem of many.
Nonsense. I just don't like an organisation, especially when it's compulsory to join them, having an affiliation with a political party when their job is to represent my interests against Employers AND Government policy. They cannot do the latter if they are tied to a particular party...or do it in my best interests.

Clare Prop 11th May 2012 05:05

My personal experience of unions has been:
-The Winter of Discontent in the UK
-Being bailed up and held by the throat against a hot packing machine by a shop steward threatening to kill me if I didn't join his union
-Seeing a close friend who was a staunch union supporter and negotiator being completely shafted and bullied by the union she had worked for for decades when she had to take extended sick and carers leave - that she was entitled to.

So far I haven't seen anything yet that has been able to untarnish my view of union thuggery and the terrible disruption they can cause to innocent people's lives by strike action. In fact the shenanigans of Thomson and co just reinforce my jaundiced view.

I realise my view is a narrow one and I'm sure there are many positives for people who feel unable to stand up for themselves. But it's MY view not something I read in the paper.

CoodaShooda 11th May 2012 05:44

One doing the rounds.. Not sure the first example stands much scrutiny......

> >
> >
> > You can't get any more accurate than this!
> >
> >
> >
> > Which side of the fence?
> >
> > If you ever wondered which side of the fence you sit on, this
> > is a great test!
> >
> >
> > If a Liberal doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
> > If a Labor doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.
> >
> > If a Liberal is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
> > If a Labor is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned
> > for everyone.
> >
> > If a Liberal is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
> > If a Labor is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.
> >
> > If a Liberal is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his
> > situation.
> > A Labor wonders who is going to take care of him.
> >
> > If a Liberal doesn't like a talk show host, he switches
> > channels.
> > Labor's demand that those they don't like be shut down.
> >
> > If a Liberal is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
> > A Labor non-believer wants any mention of God and religion
> > silenced.
> >
> > If a Liberal decides he needs health care, he goes about
> > shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
> > A Labor demands that the rest of us pay for his.
> >
> > If a Liberal reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can
> > have a good laugh.
> > A Labor will delete it because he's "offended".

Worrals in the wilds 11th May 2012 06:21

John Howard, the great gun lover...:}
The third point is also looking a little shaky, if you believe the allegations. :E

As for the stories from Clare and Ovation, :sad: That's the way it's not supposed to work. Thanks for sharing them.

My only question is, how recent were these events? I'd hope that there have been significant improvements in the last fifteen years, but I do own a well used pair of rose coloured glasses. :\

Anyway, this sort of thing belongs back in the 1970s along with gender discrimination, operating heavy equipment while swigging down rum and twenty people all chain smoking in the office.

There's a hell of a lot of rebuilding to do, and the HSU and NSW Labor Right are just pouring petrol on the fire.

CoodaShooda 11th May 2012 06:30


I work in the construction industry. In my experience, those stories are contemporary and relevant.


Point three seems to be valid. Things changed when there was a swing to labor. :E

Buster Hyman 11th May 2012 06:39

In the interests of balance, I'll supply a positive Union story.

The FCU, or ASU as it became, was a sham & a joke. At Ansett, they couldn't bend over far enough for the company, so long as the trips to Hamilton Island for their "conference" were supplied by the company. Lyndsay Tanner, that guardian of Aviation professionals, came in to "sweep out the old guard", managed to get enough publicity for pre-selection & was then off! The TWU were the same until there was a change from their "old guard".

As a load controller, I had close dealings with the Ramp staff (TWU) at Ansett, and I knew the chap that became the shop steward. He was an English chap that had an intensity about him that could put you off were you to cross him. Eyes that would look you squarely in the eye without waivering or blinking. I had some decent & frank discussions with him about various issues but, at the end of the day, I wish he was my shop steward.

He was offered the usual trip to Hamilton Island & declined, unless they offered the trip to all the TWU members. He shunned any overtures from the company for incentives & bargained for his collegues in a way I'd never seen, but wished still existed.

When Ansett sought the use of part timers on the ramp, they negotiated with one of the weakest managers at the airport, and he was slaughtered. He achieved the company aim of getting part timers on the ramp, but he didn't realise the cost of the deal until it was too late. You see, my friend had argued that the Ramp staff relied on a certain amount of overtime & by bringing part timers in, they would lose that overtime. Long story short, the Ansett manager agreed to a guaranteed 10 hours of overtime per TWU staff member per week!

Three times Ansett took it to arbitration & on the third rejection, the Judge warned Ansett not to bring the matter before arbitration again.

The cynic in me, of course, will say that that's the sort of deal that killed Ansett off, and it was one of many (Job for life FE's anyone?) but it was negotiated in good faith by the Union, with Union members at the forefront of the negotiation, not some whitewash deal that saw individual shop stewards rewarded.

MattGray 11th May 2012 07:31

One doing the rounds.. Not sure the first example stands much scrutiny......
None of them do.

Especially Point Three with regard to certain Liberal homosexuals!

A collection of shallow sweeping generalizations which has been "doing the rounds" for yonks.

Readily found on the worst kind of Canadian and US right wing extremist and Christian fundamentalist sites.
Plus all too regularly in my personal Inbox from misguided acquaintances.

sisemen 11th May 2012 08:41

In the meantime.......

Alabanese :yuk: dragged up stuff from 35 years ago, yes, 35 years ago, about an undergraduate 'prank' by Tony Abbott to try and counter the effective onslaught that the Coalition are mounting against this bunch of shysters over the Slipper/Thomson debacle.

All it goes to show is that the government are hurting mightily from their misguided attempts to shield those two in exchange for their votes. And if that's the best that Albanese :yuk: can come up with then perhaps he'd be better off digging ditches rather than trying to pretend to be a government minister.

As someone has said just previously - it seems that the government are now falling back entirely on muckraking and personal attacks rather than good governance. It just shows up the paucity of ability in a government that the people of Australia just want gone.

And if what Andu has said comes out then they are on a hiding to nothing as it all comes back to bite 'em on the bum!

TWT 11th May 2012 09:02

As someone on here already mentioned,the Libs are certainly capable of 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory':

Kroger attack rips open old Liberal wounds - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Worrals in the wilds 11th May 2012 10:20

I work in the construction industry. In my experience, those stories are contemporary and relevant.

Bugger. Some of these blokes need a kick in the arse and a lesson in Big Picture thinking. :(

Point three seems to be valid. Things changed when there was a swing to labor. :E
Rightly or wrongly, a rampant screaming queen once told me 'Sweetie, never trust a bisexual. They just don't know WTF they are, and they end up F-ing everybody in more ways than one'. :E
Maybe the same can be said of bi-politicals.

Andu 12th May 2012 02:33

Navy intercepts sixth boat in a week | thetelegraph.com.au

THE navy has intercepted another asylum-seeker boat off Christmas Island.

Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said patrol boat HMAS Wollongong, operating under the control of Border Protection Command, intercepted the suspected irregular entry vessel west of Christmas Island on Friday.

He said initial indications suggested there were 84 passengers on board.

"Border Protection Command will now make arrangements for the passengers to be transferred to Christmas Island, where they will undergo initial security, health and identity checks and their reasons for travel will be established," he said in a statement.

The latest arrival follows the interception of another boat on Friday carrying 99 passengers and two crew.


Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

'I was set up' claims Thompson

POLITICAL enemies on numerous occasions set up Craig Thomson with fabricated records suggesting he engaged prostitutes, including making telephone calls from his mobile phone to escort agencies pretending to be him, using his drivers licence for authentication, and obtaining his two union credit cards to pay for the services, the Labor turned independent MP claims.

Mr Thomson this morning appeared on Channel Nine’s Weekend Today show to be interviewed by an incredulous Laurie Oakes, who asked him whether he really expected his fellow MPs to believe his story when he addresses Parliament later this month.
Given the record of this government in being utterly hopeless in virtually every attempt they have made to implement every policy initiative they have taken over the last four years, they obviously need to get that unknown HSU union official into their senior ranks PDQ, as he has displayed administrative skills well beyond just about every one of us in so successfully setting Craig Thompson up.

It's not every man who can organise, (whilst remaining totally below the radar, even,it would seem, Craig Thompson), driving up to the north coast, stealing BOTH of poor Craig's credit cards (his CBA card and his Diner's) and his mobile phone, impersonating Craig's voice well enough to fool the people he rang during the drive to make them believe it was Craig calling, make multiple purchases at Sydney escort agencies on multople nights, sign a more than passable Craig Thompson signature, note down his driver's licence number, then get said cards and phone back to Craig's place on the north coast on each of the next mornings before Craig missed them - and then waving a magic wand to make Craig overlook the errant entries on his credit card statements.


Labor needs this bloke to run one - any one - of their policy programmes. Bugger Labor - GREECE needs this man to run their bail out programme! Bugger Greece - the EU needs him as president.

The former Mrs Thompson racked up a serious number of frequent flyer points on Craig's union credit card. Did Laurie Oakes ask him to explain that?

Worrals in the wilds 12th May 2012 02:38

It's not every man who can organise, (whilst remaining totally below the radar, even,it would seem, Craig Thompson),
And apart from all that, also looks enough like Craig Thomson to fool all the brothel receptionists when they did the face to license check. :suspect:

Labor needs this bloke to run one - any one - of their policy programmes. Bugger Labor - GREECE needs this man to run their bail out programme! Bugger Greece - the EU needs him as president.

Andu 12th May 2012 08:42

There has to be at least one lady out there, (and quite possibly more), who knows... dare I use the term 'intimately'... whether or not Our Craig is telling porkies over the point that he's been 'totally set up' over the adult services charges on his credit card.

She or they might well have moved on to bigger and better things since 2005/6 - (finished her law degree, got a job with Slater & Gordon :) , maybe now happily married with a coupla rugrats, who knows?) - but all it would take is for one lady to come out and say (metaphorically, you understand), "the man I... umm 'escorted' - who had an incredible resemblance to CT - had a heart-shaped mole/tat on his left buttock" and our Craig (and therefore, Our Julia) is toast.

I wonder who the lucky Liberal staffer is whose job it is to troll the knock shops of Sydney looking for her? (And who's paying his credit card bills? :) )

parabellum 12th May 2012 08:43

My guess is that she has someone like Max Clifford advising her and will go public when the price is right.

Captain Sand Dune 12th May 2012 22:56

Gee, who'da thunk it.................

SENIOR Labor figures believe the Gillard government should cut ties with the Greens and call an early election if parliament becomes unworkable.
The internal debate comes as one of the union leaders who backed Julia Gillard for The Lodge, Australian Workers' Union boss Paul Howes, prepares to publicly urge the party to distance itself from the Greens.
The election option is being discussed by Labor strategists, unionists and MPs despite them conceding the party is not campaign-ready for a snap poll.
Speculation has mounted after the cash splash in the Budget that the Prime Minister has prepared an insurance plan if Labor is forced to the polls by a no-confidence motion or a by-election loss.
Billions of dollars will start flowing this week, with eligible families securing their first carbon tax compensation of a $110 lump sum from May 16.
Lump sum payments for pensioners will be deposited in bank accounts at the end of the month.
NSW Right figures have told The Sunday Telegraph there was a "real question" about whether the parliament would become so unworkable an election was the only option."Why do you put a dog down that could live in pain for another two years," one Labor figure commented.
The risk of an early election is one of the biggest arguments against a return to the leadership of Kevin Rudd, with senior cabinet ministers warning any move to dump Ms Gillard would likely result in a snap poll.
But some in Labor believe calling an election might not be such a bad plan rather than continuing to govern in defiance of angry voters with parliamentary support that hangs by a thread and the grace of mercurial independents.
Leadership speculation is set to flare again with Mr Rudd breaking his vow of public silence next Sunday with an appearance at the Sydney Writers' Festival where he will help launch the new book by independent Bob Katter.
Although the Prime Minister has repeatedly vowed her intention is to run a full term, the decision might not lie in Ms Gillard's hands if the independents force the government to the brink.
Mr Howes is preparing to launch a public call for Labor to resist the environmental movement and take a tougher line with the Greens at a speech at the National Press Club later this month.
This without a doubt the worst government in my living memory. Makes Goof & Co look good!

Andu 12th May 2012 23:32

You couldn't make this **** up.
'Robbed' Lib MP threatens to sue

LIBERAL MP Ken Ticehurst, who lost the seat of Dobell in 2007 to Labor's Craig Thomson, plans to sue Mr Thomson for lost earnings, claiming he was robbed of his seat, costing him a lifetime parliamentary pension of $85,000 a year.
Mr Ticehurst, who was outspent by Mr Thomson three dollars to one in the election, said Labor had ''defrauded'' the people of Dobell by allowing Mr Thomson to run.

Read more: 'Robbed' Lib MP threatens to sue
Please, somebody tell me this a Labor Party stitch up.

Meanwhile, Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun

EXCLUSIVE: BILL and Chloe Shorten have emerged from a rough-and-tumble fortnight in politics to speak out for the first time about their marriage and life in the sometimes ugly world of politics.

"I have a job I love, a family I love, it is a good place," the Gillard Government's Workplace Relations Minister - a politician considered a future Labor prime minister - told the Sunday Herald Sun.

david1300 13th May 2012 03:42

Well, the email rumor regarding Shorten is out there and circulating. Wonder if Chloe Bryce has also read it?

RJM 13th May 2012 09:17

How long will it be before Thomson has his 'day in court'? What's stopping at least one charge being got up on the present evidence and putting an end to Labor's self-preservational posturing?

Meanwhile, Gillard is objecting to journalists spending time on such issues.

But why have the issues arisen? You can trace a direct line from each sleazy 'issue' confronting parliament to Gillard's so called political tactics. The day Gillard acquired power, the rot set in.

The woman is bad news. Which is no news to anyone with eyes, ears and even half a brain.

Harrumph. :*

sisemen 13th May 2012 10:46

Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese has accused the coalition of peddling vicious rumours about Workplace Relations Minister Bill Shorten and his wife.
The issue is about what Shorten is alleged to have been up to - not his wife. And, whether the allegations are correct or not, unfortunately his wife is "collateral damage". And, as RJM has pointed out, that's what you get when you start the ball rolling in that direction.

Labor simply has what's coming to it. Even members of their own back-bench (and probably more than a few on the front bench) are now calling for a disconnect with the Greens and an early election.

And that's probably why the latest Neilsen poll has Tony Abbott at 50% as preferred Prime Minister and Incompetent Gillard on 42%.

Now what were the faithful few and dear departed saying about nobody liking or wanting Abbott? Apart from them it seems that virtually everyone in Australia, including the Parliamentary ALP, wants an end to this farce.

No doubt there will some that will post castigating me for continuing a rumour. Please, save your crocodile tears. They're wasted on me.

bob johns 13th May 2012 12:00

bob johns
Pauline Hanson and David Etteridge were GAOLED ( and subsequently aquitted ----charges quashed as WRONG ) and this unmitigated filth continues to infest our leadership (?) A pox on the lot of them.!ALP is dead for a generation and good riddance.

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