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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

CoodaShooda 7th May 2012 05:29

Hey Worrals.

You do realise that you're displaying the miners' flag. :E

Dark Knight 7th May 2012 07:17

However. the one thing Labor forgot which is another of their stuff ups brewing, is the Defence Forces provide the welcoming committee for the illegal arrivals.

Not only this they provide survellience and, more importantly, rescue facillities and teams when these people get into trouble or sabotage their boats.

There will be one hell of a row when/should the next boatload of illegals/aliens arrive and founder.

As a second thought if memory serves me correctly each and every time we have had a labor Government regardless of their promises not to cut the Defence budget and forces they have done so leaving the new government to commence the rebuilding process. Consequently building and maintaining a good defence force is almost impossible.

A Third thought and perhaps all PPruners with Defence backgrounds can educate us: Why in this day of modern warfare do we (particularly in Austrlia) need submarines?

Surely our needs would be better suited with good fighter, survellience and transport aircraft, UAVs, Cruise missilles (long & short range); a good fleet of destroyers and the like, transport ships and coastal patrol vessels, a well equipped army capable of fighting at home and abroad as needed in the well and truly capable manner they do.?

Should we need submarines, would not renting/leasing nuclear powered subs be the most cost effective manner?

Andu 7th May 2012 08:13

Dark Knight, however shabbily they are treated by their government, you can be sure that on the job, the serving members of the ADF will be professional to the core in carrying out their jobs. It's a bit like people who fly aeroplanes for a living - many of them would do it for no pay (a trait that governments, like airline managers, milk to the fullest in exploiting the professionalism of the servicemen and women).

As for your question re submarines: I'm sure there will be others who could (and hopefully will) answer your question with far more authority than I can, but (while certainly not the only) one of the submarine's most important roles is in preventing a potential enemy from actually becoming an enemy. (And this is a role that, in today's world, with the very long ranges involved in any situation Australia is likely to become involved in, cannot be even half way seriously provided by a conventional sub - it simply has to be a nuke.)

They provide a function that no other arm of the defence force can - the threat, importantly, without the threat of an in your face confrontation, of a force projection right into a potential adversary's back yard that, most importantly, remains unseen, that may or may not even be in situ (but most importantly, could be), thus keeping an adventurous potential adversary from acting precipitately, (and hopefully, at all).

I cite the presence of the lone Royal Navy (nuke) submarine in the waters around the Falklands in 1982. The very threat of that lone submarine kept the Argentinean aircraft carrier in port, quite probably reducing the effectiveness of the Argentinean A4s by a major degree, if only in time on station over the islands.

If we try to home-build a conventional Collins Class Mark 2 in Adelaide to replace the disastrous, hugely expensive and massively ineffective Collins Class Mark 1, I agree with you -it will be an enormous waste of money that will achieve nothing but further lining the pockets of (not even Australian) defence contractors and keep some South Australian politicians happy. Six Virginia Class nukes leased from the US would provide an infinitely more effective force - and far, far earlier - than any number of conventional submarines, which would be horribly, even fatally limited by their lack of range and inability to remain on station (and having to snort regularly, remain undetected) for any meaningful length of time.

david1300 7th May 2012 08:48

Imagine if you are a potential or actual people smuggler in Indonesia. What would be your latest marketing and recruitment drive? Maybe...

Roll up here for your boat trip to Australia. After a short stay on Christmas Island the Australian government will pay for you to stay with your new Australian family. They will ensure that you are well fed and clothed and have all the legal help you need. Remember, all this is provided FREE. And don't worry about this leaky boat - if we get into any difficulties they have a highly trained defence force and search and rescue teams that will immediately come to our aid. Those of you that aren't well will be specially cared for, with a flight to world leading hospitals in Perth.

As with all marketing, the basics are facts, even if the details might be overstated a little. But imagine the queue of people prepared to believe the best. Look forward to a tidal wave flowing this way.

sisemen 7th May 2012 09:45


latest marketing and recruitment drive
That's exactly the marketing ploy that they've been using ever since the ascendency of Kevin07.

They're just rushing them in now to beat the election date.

Andu 7th May 2012 11:29

..and then there were three.

Three new boats mark anniversary of 'Malaysia solution'


Three boats carrying a total of 305 suspected asylum seekers were intercepted in Australian waters yesterday.
The arrivals come on the first anniversary of the announcement of the government’s so-called Malaysia solution, which proposed sending 800 asylum seekers to Malaysia in exchange for Australia accepting 4000 processed and verified refugees.
A statement from Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said the first two vessels were intercepted by HMAS Wollongong yesterday after a maritime patrol plane spotted them.


Read more: Three new boats mark anniversary of 'Malaysia solution'

RJM 7th May 2012 14:19

Doh. The penny's just dropped. Craig Thomson has to maintain his complete innnocence of all allegations no matter how damning and categorical the evidence against him, because while Gillard has kicked Thomson out of the party she has left him in Parliament, and voting, saying that he is entitled to the presumption of innocence, and is therefore innocent enough to stay in Parliament. The minute Thomson admits guilt, Gillard's argument collapses and so may her government. How does she sleep at night??

boofta 7th May 2012 17:10

The best case is for Labor to run the full term.The longer these lying idiots remain in power the longer they will be in the winderness.
Or hopefully this union fed fiasco will actually dissolve into permanent
oblivion, the people have woken up, the longer they stay in power
the bigger the spanking they will get.

Captain Sand Dune 7th May 2012 20:43


the people have woken up, the longer they stay in power
the bigger the spanking they will get.
You'd hope so. However the Australian voting public have a remarkably short memory and are easily distracted. How else did Labour get in with Joolya at the helm? Once again, bring on non-compulsory voting.

parabellum 7th May 2012 22:41

The Long Goodbye
 
Craig Thomson - have we finally reached the beginning of the end?

Worrals in the wilds 7th May 2012 23:12


You do realise that you're displaying the miners' flag. :E
Don't pick on me. I feel terrible. :{
Must have been a dodgy snag; nothing at all to do with drinking my own body weight in XXXX gold followed by an unreasonable number of rum and cokes. :yuk: From memory there was a BBQ duck at some stage as well. :ouch:

Thousands turn out for Labour Day march in Brisbane | The Courier-Mail

Anyway, the Labour Day wash up;
I didn't speak with all the 20,000 people who turned up, but I got across a fair cross section from both blue and white collar unions over the day/night. No-one I spoke to thought the federal ALP would make it past the next election, if they make it that far. I didn't meet anyone who declared that was a bad thing either. A quiet, well known bloke doing the rounds was asking people whether a leadership change would make a difference; I suspect he might have some influence on that decision. :suspect: A couple of people thought Rudd would do better, but still didn't think he'd win. Most people in our group (a disparate collection from various unions) thought it would make no difference. He certainly appears to be more popular with blue collar types than Gillard.

No federal pollies; the only celebupollie who turned up was Beattie. Swan and Rudd must have had Previous Engagements, because they usually wouldn't miss it for quids.

A lot of people were quietly grumpy about the ALP contingent turning up in ALP shirts. 'Why don't they wear their own union shirts'? one BLF guy asked. 'Cos they're not in one. Why would pollies need a bloody union'? was his mate's answer. On the Nose is an understatement. :ooh:

Lots of talk about integrity. The numbers were pretty much the same as last year, but there was a big drop for a couple of mobs, one who unwisely supported the former state government's asset sales. Their numbers had dropped so dramatically that 'Where are the 'Thingos'?' was a recurring question. In the ladies loo queue (one of the best places to guage the pulse of the nation:suspect:) I heard a few 'Thingos' members talking about changing to the rival union. The closing line 'Ya just can't trust 'em, darl' summarised the conversation.

Any federal ALP pollie who thinks integrity, truth, principles and trust are outdated concepts should have wandered around the RNA yesterday listening to people. If even the people who can be bothered to turn out of bed on a public holiday and march for Labour Day think the ALP sucks and has no integrity then...it's got problems. The fact that none of the federal MPs did that (even the Queensland MPs) says to me that either they haven't got it yet, or they've 100% got it and were worried about eskies full of tomatoes waiting for them.


Australian Manufacturing Workers Union (AMWU) national president and Labor state president Andrew Dettmer said it was important to distinguish between the labour movement and the party.
However, I think the unions have. :E

Buster Hyman 7th May 2012 23:53

I walked past Bill Shortens electoral office yesterday. Very swank.

He has automatic, double opening doors! Not sliding doors for our Bill, oh no. So, since the doors opened for me, I took the opportunity to shout "[email protected]!" as I walked past. Childish, immature...but gee, it felt good. :p

sisemen 8th May 2012 02:37


XXXX gold
There's your problem Worrals - right there. You should have chosen a decent beer.

Pinky the pilot 8th May 2012 05:54


XXXX gold

There's your problem Worrals - right there. You should have chosen a decent beer.
Agreed. Coopers Pale Ale would have been far better.
Or a few good Aussie reds. A nice Shiraz perhaps?:ok:

Anyone else note that the ABC TV News footage of last night showing Swan and Gillard leafing through what was puported to be the budget papers appeared to be showing them turning the pages backwards as they 'read' them?

Buster; I probably would have done the same!:}

Worrals in the wilds 8th May 2012 09:45


Or a few good Aussie reds. A nice Shiraz perhaps?:ok:
I'm not in APESMA. :} Our choices were XXXX, XXXX or XXXX. Not that I'm complaining; I don't mind the stuff.

Anyone else note that the ABC TV News footage of last night showing Swan and Gillard leafing through what was puported to be the budget papers appeared to be showing them turning the pages backwards as they 'read' them?
Nice one :rolleyes:. Good one, Buster! :ok:
I see the ABC Budget coverage is running at the same time as Yes Minister reruns on Gem. Spot the difference...

CHAIRMAN 8th May 2012 14:45

It's a tragedy - the ALP has always put itself out as the 'working mans party'. But every time it gets into power, there is a short run of euphoria, followed by years of misery for the 'working man'.
I've yet to see a socialist government anywhere in the world that has the long term interests of the 'workers' at heart - it's all hype, and those guvmint reps are nothing more than 'workers' who couldn't care less who they tread on to elevate their own positions. Real ability is severely lacking:ugh:

Lex Talionis 8th May 2012 23:00


I've yet to see a socialist government anywhere in the world that has the long term interests of the 'workers' at heart - it's all hype,
I've yet to see ANY Guvmint of any persuasion having the interest of their populace at heart over the long term because it always seems the short term goal of getting re elected that is the aim.

and those guvmint reps are nothing more than 'workers' who couldn't care less who they tread on to elevate their own positions.
That sounds more like the actions of the corporate sector and their lofty ideals of receiving a bonus at the expense of everyone else.

Real ability is severely lacking
I agree with you CHAIRMAN and that is political ability in this country and probably most is severely lacking.

To be honest I am surprised at the lack of posts regarding the latest budget.Is it because it is a budget for the lower income earner and that is going back to the true support base of the Labor party or that after all the hype shown here about a deficit is now redundant?

He has automatic, double opening doors! Not sliding doors for our Bill
Buster,are you telling us that no other offices in Australia including Liberal party branches have automatic doors :yuk:

Worrals in the wilds 8th May 2012 23:28

I didn't watch it.
I don't have kids so as far as either side of the house is concerned I don't exist :rolleyes:. I rarely have a high enough income to get penalised or a low enough income to get a handout so really; at a personal level it doesn't usually affect me that much.

As part of my civic duty I'll buy the papers later and wade through the commentary. :bored:

Buster Hyman 9th May 2012 00:00


Buster,are you telling us that no other offices in Australia including Liberal party branches have automatic doors http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/pukey.gif
That is quite possibly the lamest comeback I've ever seen on an Oz politics thread. Just ignore the obvious jokes if you can't do any better than that Lex.:rolleyes:

Not sure about this...but thought it was funny.

http://www.elijahschallenge.net/lega...%20Treason.pdf

Andu 9th May 2012 01:27

Muslim man granted judge-only trial in NSW


A Muslim man was granted a judge-only trial in NSW on the grounds a jury may be biased because of his strict religious beliefs.

Ismail Belghar, 36, is believed to be the first Muslim in Australia to be granted the special trial, the Daily Telegraph reports.

The decision by Judge Ronald Solomon was revealed in the NSW District Court yesterday after Belghar pleaded guilty to detaining and assaulting his sister-in-law because she had "dared" to take his wife to the beach without asking him first.

He had initially been charged with attempted murder.

Judge Solomon had granted Belghar the trial back in March after agreeing he may not receive fair judgment with a jury.

"The attitude of (Belghar)… is based on a religious or cultural basis," Judge Solomon said.

"In light of the fact there has been adverse publicity regarding people who hold extreme Muslim faith beliefs in the community, I am of the view that the apprehension by (Belghar) that he may not receive a fair trial is a reasonable apprehension."
Maybe we should just put our hands up and surrender. Granting someone special treatment for something like this is a bit like being "a little bit pregnant". It's a ratchet, and a ratchet that will surely tighten.

Meanwhile, back in the Old Dart....

Girl forced to have sex with 20 men in one night | thetelegraph.com.au

Coming to an Australian suburb near you soon. Or if you live in south western Sydney, it's probably already there.


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