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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 24th Oct 2013 20:58

ALPBC radio this morning reporting that George Brandis has asked Barry (Barrie?) Cassidy to resign from the Heritage Council job the ALP slipped him into, unannounced, just hours before the caretaker period was declared prior to the election.

500N 24th Oct 2013 21:07


Those last big Victorian Fires - Which thank god for once the Greenies got blamed for.

They killed more Fauna and Flora, not just normal stuff but RARE Fauna it wasn't funny.

Also, animals in this country know to get away from fires and 99% of time do so, except when you get the raging fires that move so fast.

I've seen it in the NT where a lot of people light fires to burn off
before it gets too dry, the fire creeps along. Then you see it after
it has dried out and wooosh, runs away at one hell of a speed.

parabellum 24th Oct 2013 21:41

Christmas 2011 I was having a drink with our local CFA captain. I mentioned that the horrific fires that ripped through the Bunyip State Park and the hills due north of Drouin, Gippsland, in 2009 would have, at least, left us reasonably safe for a few years? He told me to go up into the hills and have a look for myself, most of the fuel is back and ready to go again, that was two years ago!

7x7 24th Oct 2013 21:53

ALPBC radio this morning interviewed a number of asylum seekers in Darwin who'd just been told they could either take a flight home of stay in detention in Australia indefinitely.

They said most were electing to stay in detention in Australia indefinitely. Even allowing for ABC bias in finding only interviewees who fit their (the ABC's) agenda, common sense would say that's the answer most would give - after six years of seeing the Australian government fold on every hard issue, most would think that if they hang in there, the press of numbers alone would eventually force the government to quietly let them out into the community.

As others are saying on other sites, it's going to get really interesting if the government starts telling AS who are already living in the Australian community on bridging (and other, less restrictive) visas that the rules have changed and they're now on TPVs and will eventually have to leave Australia.

Can't see it happening, myself.

Flying Binghi 24th Oct 2013 23:44

via parabellum:
...go up into the hills and have a look for myself, most of the fuel is back and ready to go again, that was two years ago!
I'm not familiar with what the 'fuel' is there. Is it grass? mid story shrubs? The larger trees? All of the above?

Animal grazing excluded, fuel load is related to the seasons. Couple of good rainfall years been good for making fuel.

This idea getting around that fuel reduction fires should be done at set time intervals is a bit miss-leading. What if there has been a drought for many years and not much fuel to burn. Do the managers stick to the burn-off time table?


500N 24th Oct 2013 23:54

Flying Binghi

Fuel here in Aus is everything on the ground, Grass, leaves, sticks, tree branches shrubs etc.

Unlike in the UK, most trees here are Gum Trees, VERY VERY inflammable,
especially when the temp is high, they can explode (as in the tops of the trees) because of the Sap.

So, you have a whole load of stuff that burns easily, burns even when wet
but burns very easily when dry. Wet winter, warm temps, high growth rate
followed by endless days over 90 degrees if not 100 degrees that dries everything out.

On top of that, you have Greenie who now don't want or won't allow burning off of the undergrowth and litter on the ground.

It is a recipe for disaster.

You have two main types of fires here (excluding grass fires).


Fire burning along the ground, all the leaf litter, shrubs etc, can burn slow or fast. Trees often catch alight and burn up the trunks to the tops / canopy.

Then you get the above types of fires fanned by high winds, lots of fuel etc
where the tree tops and canopys catch alight and rush ahead at high speed while the fire below burns at a fast rate but not as fast as the canopy.

Andu 25th Oct 2013 00:27

Warning! Aviation content.

A crop duster aircraft involved in water bombing crashed near Ulla Dulla yesterday, killing the 43 year old pilot. I have to say, it's an extraordinary testament to the professionalism of all the aircrew involved in fighting the fires that there haven't been more accidents.

I've flown both fixed wing and rotary wing in bushfire work, and I have to say, it would rate right up there with the highlands of PNG as the most demanding and unforgiving flying conditions a pilot could ever hope to encounter, so kudos - big time - to the blokes (and blokettes) who are flying in support of the bush fire fighting effort in NSW today.

It's not just the smoke, which reduces visibility alarmingly, so that the next ridgeline (or even more dangerous) the next power line is almost impossible to see, but the turbulence from the fires can be horrendous. Flying a chopper in those conditions with a water bucket hanging under it is about as demanding as flying can get, while the FW water bomber aircraft have to get down really low, in among the power lines and ridges, to make their drops as effective as possible. (And it goes without saying that the aircraft are often tasked to work on fires in the most rugged terrain, where ground parties can't get in.)

On a totally unrelated matter, and with only a very vague link to Australian politics, take a look at the short clip in this NZ Herald article and if you can watch it without a dust mite or two getting into you eyes and causing them to mist up just a bit, you're a harder man than I am, Gunga Din.

Soldiers' farewell haka footage goes viral - National - NZ Herald News

500N 25th Oct 2013 00:34


It is a superb Tribute. I have watched it a few times.

Re the pilots, because of PPRuNe, I have taken a higher level of interest
and was watching the footage closely on TV this week and yes, the pilots
are impressive. They all deserve medals.

Andu 25th Oct 2013 00:35

What I meant to add was to ask if I'm the only one who has noticed the difference between the media reports in these current fires and the Victorian fires of two or three years ago? Barry O'Farrell has made a few appearances, while Tony Abbott has been noticeable in his absence (except for putting in a fourteen hour shift driving a fire fighting truck), but on the whole, the people we've seen on camera are the actual people who are in operational command of the fire fighting effort.

I may be way out of line in voicing such thoughts, but I find myself asking who we'd be seeing on camera every night if Kevin Rudd was Prime Minister.

500N 25th Oct 2013 00:41

If Rudd had been PM, yes, we would be seeing him every night.

I think that people realise that Tony Abbott doesn't see the need to be seen all the time and they like it. He is there if needed and so be it.

Re those in Operational control, I reckon a few learn't from the Absolute cock up of Christine Nixon et al who made a complete pigs arse of the whole thing.

If ever someone should be not in control of an emergency situation it was her as was then demonstrated. She was always the fluffy type.

Just my view.

Worrals in the wilds 25th Oct 2013 01:14

I'm glad the coverage has been less hysterical than for previous recent disasters. With or without the pollies it certainly seems to be more factual and less emotive. :ok:

Just a question though; have the tv reporters been asked to wear orange firefighting outfits or are they playing dress-ups? I hadn't noticed it in previous years.

500N 25th Oct 2013 01:18

I thought that they had been asked to wear them for safety reasons.
It was a while ago I last discussed it.

IMHO, they need to, they are often standing on the sides of roads,
near flames / fires and well within the danger zone.

I agree, the coverage has been good. I commented to my GF that
one of the Spokesman was excellent, calm, clear, slow with his words
and not excited, unlike the reporter who was speaking at 1000 miles and hour. The next day, they were saying the same thing about the NSW Fire Chief
so 2 good people.

Flying Binghi 25th Oct 2013 01:23

Apologies 500N, i should have clarified what i meant by i'm not familiar with what the fuel is there. Whilst i've a fair idea of fire in Oz bush through many years of attending to same around my farm i were referring in my previous post to not being familiar as such with "the Bunyip State Park and the hills due north of Drouin, Gippsland..."

Whilst we is with bush fire here's an interesting paper from Roger Underwood via Jennifer Marohasy:

'Bushfire management in Australian forests – confronting a changing environment’ a paper by Roger Underwood presented to the Timber Communities of Australia conference in Perth, Western Australia, April 2007.

"Sadly, when it comes to bushfire management in Australia, I see history repeating itself continuously, and even worse, because of recent changes in our forest management environment, the outlook is for more of the same..." continues - Jennifer Marohasy » Bushfire Management in Australian Forests: A Note from Roger Underwood


500N 25th Oct 2013 01:33


My apologise. And I didn't see you were listed as in Oz in your location !!!

"the Bunyip State Park and the hills due north of Drouin, Gippsland..."

As described, typical Victorian Light and Heavy bush !

david1300 25th Oct 2013 03:25

I'm no expert on bush fires, but...

I did hear a radio discussion a few years back (I think after the Caberra fires) in which a senior firey was discussing how quickly the fuel load built up from year to year because there was no more early season burning off. He explained that by having fires go through when the bush was still green/wet/damp (late spring/early summer I think he said) the fuel on the ground didn't burn hot enough to ignite the tree canopy (the flashover canopy firestorm), and it reduced the ground-fuel load enough to take the high risk out of late season fires when the bush was dry.

Without using the exact words, he was laying blame for extreme fires at the feet of those opposing controlled burn-offs to reduce fuel load. In effect he was saying there will always be fires, but we can have a significant input to the severity or not.

500N 25th Oct 2013 03:28


And he is correct except in exceptional years.

"but we can have a significant input to the severity or not."

That being the key word IMHO.

bosnich71 25th Oct 2013 04:11

There was a paper written and issued before the Black Saturday fires in Victoria by a person with long experience in bush fires etc. in Victoria. In it he warned that there would be extreme fires in the area that eventually burnt with such a huge loss of life. He also laid the blame for what he forecast would happen directly at the door of those who oppose burn offs etc.
He didn't mention Nixon but then perhaps he didn't think, prior to the event,that someone in such a position could be so efff**** useless.
The guy from NSW who we have seen on T.V. giving his briefing is absolutely on the ball and should be congratulated, however I don't think that, unlike Fatty, he will be going out for dinner each evening and then sitting down with his agent to discuss his future book. I believe that his Father, who was also high, in the NSW, C.F.S. actually died during a burn off operation.
With regard to the pilots fighting the fires I add my plaudits to those already on this blog. I once got close to Elvis when it came in for a 'hot re-fuel' ... if that's the term ... and that was frightening enough for me.

500N 25th Oct 2013 04:20

"unlike Fatty,"

Lovely description.

Only done a couple of "Hot refueling" on Army helicopters a long time ago and you knew it was still turning. Running up tot he cockpit with a glass jar of fuel to get the pilots OK that he was happy with the fuel (I think it was to check that their was no water in it) was interesting with the rotors turning.

SOPS 25th Oct 2013 04:41

On another note....why do all these women in detention think it is a great idea to have babies? Seems to me it is the last place you would want to have a baby.

And as they seem to have free access to phones, computers and whatever, surely basic contraception methods must be available.

500N 25th Oct 2013 04:43


In Jail, have baby, big $$$$$ come in from the Gov't.

Special privileges as well. Get out of the boredom routine of normal jail life.

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