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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 27th Aug 2013 07:25

Yair, I concede that the ABC is also imperfect
Ken, I acknowledge that you and I will never agree on politics - and the fact that this is one of the very few countries in the world where we can do so and still possibly enjoy a beer together without either of us feeling the need to take to the other with a gun is something we should value beyond any price.


"....the ABC is also imperfect"?


I hasten to disagree with your use of that word, for from my perspective, it's as near to perfectly biased towards the Greens/Labor view on how we should lead our lives as it's possible to get. OK... I'll accept that it's not 'perfectly' aligned with Labor - Macca on Sunday Mornings does step outside the ABC Gruppethink on occasion. But apart from him, would you care to name one single solitary ABC presenter who doesn't PERFECTLY align him/herself at all times with the Labor/Greens line? Always?

Ken Borough 27th Aug 2013 07:39

Well, Andu, where do I start? The Coodabeen Champions, John Cleary, James Valentine, Richard Glover etc. The Drum at 1800 on ABCNews 24 always has a variety of Talking Heads from every side of politics and is stimulating as well as topical.

And yes, I'm sure we could happily chew the fat over a pint or two of beer and be friends. This aspect of our life is one of the greatest of Australian attributes, something I think we must have inherited from our English/Irish/Welsh/Scottish ancestors. We should all thank our God that we can have an election and change of government without shedding a drop of blood. :D :D :D

Ovation 27th Aug 2013 07:55


It's almost surreal that in this election campaign the ALP, Rudd MK2 and others have airbrushed away their past mistakes. An inescapable fact is Rudd MK1 was a disaster and his successor Gillard, who famously claimed "a good government had lost it's way" (code for Rudd was a disaster), was measurably worse.

You remember Gillard KB do you not? Let me fill in the blanks for you. She was the disloyal Deputy PM who knifed Rudd and was rewarded with the top job, then lied to get across the line in 2010 (if you've also airbrushed it from your memory she said "No Carbon Tax"), and was so good as PM she got dumped in favour of Rudd MK2! This is all true - I kid you not!

The ALP since 2007 has been a complete disaster, a nightmare, a bad dream, a social experiment that has failed miserably. You name it - most everything they've tried to do has cost too much, completely or partially failed, or had unintended negative consequences.

To reward the most incompetent government in Australia's history with another 3 year term would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. Yes KB, I trust Tony Abbott and the LNP will prevail and end this six year nightmare.

Andu 27th Aug 2013 08:27

...and Ken, if you watched and listened only to the ABC, you wouldn't hear one mention of any of the points raised by Ovation in his last post.

It's like a parallel universe.

I think I've mentioned it before, but I have a mate with very similar politics to you. He's self-employed and works 99% of the time completely on his own in a relatively isolated location. He listens only to the ABC - (will NOT listen to commercial radio and his TV leaves ABC 1 only to go to ABC24) - and therefore gets his view of politics and the state of the nation from just that one source.

He believes that Labor is doing a good job and suffers only because of the undeserved negativity of the Murdoch press. (Gillard was still PM when I last spoke to him.)

How do you think a disinterested observer would say he has arrived at those firmly-held opinions? Do you think that same disinterested observer would also conclude that his opinion that Labor is doing a good job is reinforced daily as he listens to a succession of like-minded souls tell him all is well?

parabellum 27th Aug 2013 08:29

Yes, I agree, the rather American habit of involving the families of candidates can be a pain at times, I happen to think Abbott's daughters were used to good effect to counter the negative misogynist labels that the ALP have tried to give him.

Slightly off topic but what I really do find myself squirming at is football players of all codes carrying their infant children round the ground, the kids haven't a clue what it is all about, usually look quite uncomfortable and will never remember any of it any way, puke making stuff :yuk:

Worrals in the wilds 27th Aug 2013 08:40

True. That's to counteract all the sex, drugs 'n' dance party stuff. Different people, same MO. :zzz:

When almost every media outlet is owned by about six guys (and the government) the concept of an independent press goes out the window. We basically have a choice of two newspapers; the Murdoch one or the Fairfax one. Having travelled a fair bit in the last twelve months I've come to realise that every Murdoch daily is a carbon copy with city specific sport and advertising. :bored:

None of the media kings are unbiased or truly balanced, and that isn't going to change.

Ken Borough 27th Aug 2013 08:56

Ovation and others,

Just to clarify where I stand to help save some bandwidth. It may not be obvious but I have never voted for anyone but the Liberals as they were the least of all evils. I was educated in Catholic schools which has resulted in a strong sense of justice, equity and fairness, of which we see little in 2013. As such, I would be classed as a small 'l' liberal, a class of political thought that's now on the outer. Call me a fellow traveller of Malcolm T and some of his like minded colleagues such as Judy Moylan who's retiring at this election.

I hope you understand. :ok:

Buster Hyman 27th Aug 2013 08:59

5000N...I only noticed that Mast head today. In other words, NFI,

Ken. Please don't misunderstand me. I agree that for this election, Murdoch has clearly picked the Blue team, and you are more than welcome to go back to my earlier posts where I bemoan the bias in any rag. Lets also not forget that Murdoch is persona non grata in my house after Ansett! But the irony of "Independant" in the masthead, followed by a number of anti Abbott articles was too much for me.

I'll say it again, report what he said, then report what the other bloke said & let me make up my own mind FFS!


Ken Borough 27th Aug 2013 09:09

Buster, you are spot on WRT to the media reporting facts and allowing the reader/listener/watcher determine his or her mind. Unfortunately, there are many in our society who don't have the 'smarts' to do this. I'm sure you can through your wit and wisdom!

I do share your thoughts about what the Dirty Digger did to AN, but at the risk of a ban, I don't think your flying colleagues did much to help the cause, or did your service post-date that grubby exercise (let's not go there!)? Cheers/KB

Buster Hyman 27th Aug 2013 10:09

I was ground staff/ load control From 84 Ken, and yes, we better not go there! ;o)

Clare Prop 27th Aug 2013 10:34

Postal ballot papers arrived today.

Am going to enjoy spending the evening filling in every single one of those 62 boxes below the line. :E

bosnich71 27th Aug 2013 12:00

Latest bubble speak from Rudd H.Q.
According to Mr. Rudd, Mr. Abbott does not have the "temperament" to deal with an international crisis such as Syria and that only he, Mr. Rudd, is capable of dealing with such events. Which, I suppose, means that the country will have to retain Kevin's services for as long as he wants to give us the benefit of them. If only we had had Kevin with us in October 1962, life would have been an absolute doddle.
Then again maybe, just maybe, Mr. Rudd is deluded.Yup that'll be it. :ugh:

SOPS 27th Aug 2013 12:04

Here we go, it's started. And just who the fcuk is paying for this?

Asylum seeker's lawyers secure High Court hearing to challenge PNG asylum seeker deal - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

And I wonder what Kev will have to say about it.

Andu 27th Aug 2013 12:30

And just who the fcuk is paying for this?
You know the answer to that already, as you know the finding the Hugh Court - almost to a (wo)man, Labor appointees - will come up with.

And hands up anyone who thinks one K Rudd wasn't absolutely certain that this, along with a half dozen other time bombs he and his red headed predecessor left behind, will explode in Tony Abbott's face after the election?

The PNG Parliament will almost certainly throw out the "PNG solution" on 10th September, leaving the incoming government with a total nightmare to deal with.

And the boats will keep coming until/unless Abbott has the balls to do something so incredibly radical that it will put at risk his political future - something so radical it will make it not worthwhile for the country shoppers to get on a boat.

I for one can't see him doing what will be required, nor what it will be. But one thing I do know - it will have to be something a damn sight more creative than buying the ***ing boats from Indonesian fishermen!!!!

I hope I'm proven to be wrong.

RJM 27th Aug 2013 15:36

Off topic, but I wholeheartedly agree, Parabellum. I used to row, and I'm thankful my career finished before the children/babes in arms of coaches were routinely included in crew photographs. What had they to do with the efforts of the crew? In my opinion, they spoil the photographs. It's enough that the coaches (and coxes) were included.

RJM 27th Aug 2013 15:43

SOPS, I have had an idea.

All irregular maritime arrivals should be accommodated at the houses of lawyers David Manne and Julian Burnside, and at Sarah Hanson-Young's place.

The state could easily fund some bunk beds and a caravan or two for the back yards of their houses.

BenThere 27th Aug 2013 15:50

I think I posted in so many words the same thought as Australia was about to throw out Mr. Howard.

Vote left if you want more taxes, worse schools, weak defenses, federal control, and more government. Vote right if you want less taxes, more rigorous education, personal accountability, stronger defenses, local control, and less government intrusion.

These choices, and principles, are timeless.

RJM 27th Aug 2013 15:52

And vote right if you want to kick Rudd's sad arse into the next millennium.

sisemen 27th Aug 2013 16:05

I'll be doing an early vote on Saturday 'cos we're off to the UK for 5 weeks next Tuesday so will miss the "excitement" of the 7th (but will keep in touch via the interweb). So Kevvy and his crew will already be two votes down :}

500N 27th Aug 2013 16:08


My postal vote turned up yesterday !

What is it with going to the UK for 5 weeks ?

My parents leave Friday for a final 5 week trip to the UK
to probably see everyone for the last time.

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