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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 23rd Apr 2012 16:16

Sorry Matt. We'll have to agree to disagree. The woman embarrasses me any time she represents my country. In the past, I had few problems with a politician whose policies I disagreed with representing my country, but to borrow your own phrase, she's gone "a bridge waaaaay too far" too many times now saying in her speech of the day on the topic of the day whatever the focus groups say she should say for whatever occasion presents itself and then doing the opposite. As an ex-serviceman, the fact that she's going to do this at Gallipoli on Anzac Day (as surely she will) angers me.

I wish I could share your approval of our current Prime Minister, but I believe she has sullied that high office to a degree that none of her predecessors has done to date - and I'll admit, on both sides of politics, we've had a few in the past who were anything but admirable. In my opinion, the lady has plumbed new depths.

sisemen 23rd Apr 2012 16:23

Also, as an ex serviceman, I would agree with Andu.

I would suspect that it's only a serviceman or ex service or the immediate relative of a deceased service person that could really comment with any degree of right.

MattGray 23rd Apr 2012 17:10

I wish I could share your approval of our current Prime Minister,

Nothing I have posted here signifys approval of the Prime Minister Andu, but as such she does represent our country and nothing she has done AFAIK denigrates the troops.

On the contrary,she and the current Government have pulled out all stops to commemorate the centenary of Gallipoli.

So I simply refuse to engage you, or the twerps yapping at your heels, in further debate in your attempts to dishonour our war dead, many of my family among them, by using them as fodder to score cheap political points on a 'Net forum such as this.

Light Horsemen who fell at the Nek, Diggers at Polygon Wood, Broodseinde, Bapaume etc etc etc

Completely beyond contempt on the eve of ANZAC Day in which I will be marching!

AN $83 million package of measures designed to mark the centenary of World War I - including possibly recreating the voyage which took the first Anzacs to war - will be unveiled by Julia Gillard today as she makes her way to Gallipoli for Anzac Day.

Early this morning, Ms Gillard is scheduled to fly to Turkey for Anzac Day.

Before leaving, she will unveil further details of a series of commemorative events and initiatives to mark the centenary of Anzac which will run from 2014 to 2018.

The event will mark the 100th anniversary of the 1915 Gallipoli landings, and the major battles along the Western Front, and there will be events in Australia and at the battle sites.

Under the $83.5 million to be set aside today, there will be several initiatives including a scoping study for a restaging of the first convoys that left from Albany, Western Australia, in November 1914 and carried Australian and New Zealand soldiers to Egypt and Gallipoli. Ms Gillard has already announced a refurbishment of the First World War galleries at the Australian War Memorial and money will be set aside to restore war graves and ensure ongoing maintenance of memorials.

There will be a local grants program to help communities carry out their own commemorative projects, including funding for a commemorative arts and culture fund.

''Just as the first Anzacs helped define our national character, the Anzac centenary will be an important time to honour and reflect upon the service and sacrifice made by members of our Defence Force, past and present,'' Ms Gillard said.

The initiatives were based on recommendations by the National Commission on the Commemoration of the Anzac Centenary and developed in consultation with the Anzac Centenary Advisory Board, which is chaired by the former defence force chief, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston.

Sydney Morning Herald

parabellum 23rd Apr 2012 22:51

Thread Locking Alert

So I simply refuse to engage you, or the twerps yapping at your heels, in further debate in your attempts to dishonour our war dead,
Careful Guys and Gals, this form of provocative abuse is the tip of the iceberg and where we have gone wrong in the past, suggest we ignore this poster now in his present persona and any others he may pop up with.

Lex Talionis 23rd Apr 2012 23:16

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement but I'm not surprised unfortunately.

This thread has now sunk to a new depth I did not think possible.

There is a political debate from some and I sincerely hope it continues but the comment made by Sisemen is completely out of line.

Letting that slag out of her home State
To use language like that is inexcusable no matter what your political feelings are.
I am not a supporter of Gillard or Abbott but I cannot see any justification for this type of disparaging personal attacks on any political figure.

I noticed a smilar comment the other day which I ignored where the same person suggested or hoped that a politician had HIV.

To me this person and his personal abusive attacks on any politician do not in any way belong in any political thread.

Personally I do not want this thread closed but with this sort of behaviour i can understand the moderators frustration.

BandAide 23rd Apr 2012 23:52

Sometimes, though, the anger needs an outlet, which I've found Pprune to be over many years. The mods gracefully delete my posts which they deem offensive; a right I accord them.

The fact is, though, that PM Gillard, and the constituencies she has always represented, are on thin ice when they attempt to associate themselves with Gallipoli. They are philosophically against those Diggers in just about every respect.

Cacophonix 24th Apr 2012 00:02

In truth the Aussies don't do war well (ask Breaker M). Rommel,of course, said with a couple of divisions of Kiwis the war would have been won. ;)

As an old Saffer I say bring it on....


Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 00:30

There's an Anzac Day thread running in D&G. How about taking the Anzac debate there if it's still open (sorry Tailwheel ;)) and leaving this one for politics.

The government of the day organizes the proceedings and no doubt they all take it very seriously, as most Australians do.
Anzac Day is far more important than party politics and should be above any partisan discussion.

In truth the Aussies don't do war well (ask Breaker M).
If you're being funny or amusingly provocative, this is not the time, Cacophonix. If you're aiming to start a serious debate about the Australian military's capabilities (which could be an interesting discussion) it's not the time either.

Buster Hyman 24th Apr 2012 00:33

Bob Brown was on Q&A last night. I managed to catch a snippet before I vomited copiusly in my tea...now, the transcript is available from 14:00 today so, I'm going from memory, but Tony Jones was probing ulterior motives for his departure.

Brown was asked if he was leaving to avoid the fallout from the Carbon Tax, to which he replied with a huge grin; "The Tax on Polluters? No." :mad:

Lex. Whilst I agree in principle with your point re "The slag" comment, I reckon you'd be lapping it up if it was a Keating quote. Perhaps not you personally, I don't know, but certainly some of your ilk.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 00:41


Ovation 24th Apr 2012 01:48


Completely beyond contempt on the eve of ANZAC Day in which I will be marching!
Quite agree MattGray. It's an extremely noble gesture for a patriotic fellow like yourself to come all the way from Burnaby BC in Canada to participate.


I am not a supporter of Gillard or Abbott but I cannot see any justification for this type of disparaging personal attacks on any political figure.
Someone should then explain to us our PM is of fine upstanding unblemished character and worthy of leading Australia, because what we know now is Gillard lied to Australia on the Carbon Tax, we know she lived with some shady Unionist in Melbourne, and some might even know of her affair with the married Craig Emerson.

At the moment Gillard and her grubby mates are waging war on Australia in most deceitful manner, and they can never command or deserve respect.

RJM 24th Apr 2012 02:59

Tony Jones was probing ulterior motives for his departure.
It was pretty gentle probing, Buster. Jones barely interrupted Brown, and it was more like a loving farewell from the ABC to dear Bob.

Jones didn't query Brown's assertion that the Greens were doing spectacularly well (when the Greens have slipped back in recent elections) and was only moved to question Brown over his claim that he had never advocated a world government based on one vote one value (which Brown definitely did, in his 'Fellow Earthians' speech). Nor did Jones query Brown's childlike faith in alternative energy for baseload power.

Brown seemed to struggle for words at times - eg the word 'dominant', trying predominant and domineering in describing ihs influence in the Greens' secret party room.

It could be that Bob's getting a bit addled. It will be interesting to see if Old Mother Milne can pull the Greens out of their shallow dive.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 03:11

It's a pity we have so few good TV interviewers in this country. Most of the interviews (on all the stations) are nothing more than fluff pieces. Andrew Denton is great, but I can't think of anyone else who stands out from the mob, who seem to be largely either hopeless sychophants or aggressive and full of leading or closed questions. :ugh:

The coverage they get in the US and UK is far superior and interesting to watch, even if you don't fully understand the issues.

Andu 24th Apr 2012 05:00

Remove Labor from soiled hands

In finding links between the scandals engulfing Peter Slipper and Craig Thomson, commentators have picked off the relatively soft targets of entitlement abuse and sexual hi-jinks. As serious as these matters might be, there is something even more disturbing in their back story. Just as senior Labor figures have known about the rorting of the Health Services Union for at least a decade, the federal caucus has had a longstanding insight into Slipper’s character. He is one of the most egregious Good-Time Charlies to ever prance around the edges of Australian politics.

It is one thing, in desperation for numbers in a hung Parliament, to stumble upon tactical ploys which offer a temporary advantage. It is a different matter entirely to offer the speakership of the House of Representatives to one of the Parliament’s least-respected figures, especially when his clownish foibles were so well-known. Labor is paying a heavy price for putting backroom deals ahead of the public’s regard for moral integrity.

Just yesterday, as I was visiting the NSW industrial heartland region of the Illawarra, a Labor diehard approached me in despair at the state of the party. He had been a long-serving local branch president who confessed, in light of the Thomson and Slipper affairs, that he was “ashamed to tell people I belong to the Labor Party”. This is a common lament among the true believers.

When I resigned the party’s leadership in 2005, I was convinced its core values were being corroded by the growth of factionalism and union control. For the next five years, whenever people challenged me about my time in Parliament, it was usually in the context of my political record. But two years ago, something changed. Like the old-timer in the Illawarra, the issue has become one of embarrassment. People regularly ask me about the humiliation I must feel for having once led a corrupted rabble like the ALP.

Unhappily, my 2005 prophecy has been fulfilled. The erosion of Labor’s moral core now has a public face: its association with Thomson and Slipper. I cannot imagine anything more gut-wrenching for the party faithful, the salt-of-the earth types who grew up with the legends of working class decency under Ben Chifley and John Curtin.

Buster Hyman 24th Apr 2012 05:40

It was pretty gentle probing, Buster.
As I said, I didn't watch it all. Tony Jones is just another biased broadcaster in a country lamenting true journalism.

sisemen 24th Apr 2012 06:38

In order not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the lefties I've taken out the reference to 'slag' and inserted 'woman'. The words have changed; the sentiment hasn't. I used the original word because I was taking a leaf out of the book of lefty taunts for when Margaret Thatcher was PM of the UK.

And Lex, I appreciate your concern for the future of the thread but you really should not try to twist words:

I noticed a similar comment the other day which I ignored where the same person suggested or hoped that a politician had HIV.
This is what I actually said - 'twas a comment on the man's appearance.

Maybe he's got HIV - he is looking a bit thin and gaunt
and given Brown's proclivities it seems a reasonable observation to make and a possible explanation for his rapid exit from public life.

And Matt,

or the twerps yapping at your heels
I presume that, as I posted after Andu, I am the twerp to whom you were referring? It's a good job that, this time, knowing your style and that of your previous incarnations, I choose not to regard that as a personal attack - even though the mods may very well do.

Now that we've got all that cleared up .......:\

What I think that a lot of people are now feeling is that Labor, having screwed up royally in the Slipper affair, don't appear to have the moral rectitude to take ownership of their own dung heap and are trying (desperately) to blame the Liberals. It can only rebound on them, particularly with that other pile of stench, Thomson, reflecting poorly on the mismatch between Labor words and action.

It will be interesting to see the next lot of polls.

Captain Sand Dune 24th Apr 2012 10:05

Looks like the well worn tactics of the "true believers" are being employed again in an attempt to have yet another thread on Australia politics shut down. Don't feed the trolls.

mister hilter 24th Apr 2012 10:29

On the contrary,she and the current Government have pulled out all stops to commemorate the centenary of Gallipoli.
Matt, yer a couple of years (well, three) early with that statement. I hope the PM of the day does pull out all the stops and that that PM is a different one to the encumbent.

sisemen 24th Apr 2012 12:45

Cock-up of the day (as reported on the ABC News) - and I paraphrase.

Abbott (commenting on the inflation rate) "And it's good news that the Reserve Bank will be able to reduce the interest rate when they meet today"

Shorten (commenting on Abbott's statement) "We all make mistakes but the Leader of the Opposition ought to have known that the Reserve Bank meets on the second Tuesday of each month. Not today. And that's been the case since....."

ABC News: "Unfortunately the Minister for Financial Services of course ought to have known that the Reserve Bank Board meets on the first Tuesday of each month."

Mouth. Foot. Place into. Who says that the government haven't got a handle on things?:E

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun

Mr Shorten said knowing when the Reserve Bank board met was important for someone wanting to be Prime Minister, before getting it wrong himself – five times.

Mr Shorten repeatedly said the board meets on the second Tuesday of each month. It actually meets on the first Tuesday of each month, except January.

"We all make mistakes but when you want to be the alternative Prime Minister of Australia interest rates is just such an important issue and the Reserve Bank board has been meeting on the second Tuesday of the month since 1960 according to the RBA archive," Mr Shorten said.

"It's been meeting on the second Tuesday of the month since 1960. Mr Abbott doesn't do his homework."

"Everyone makes mistakes, let's be clear, but the Reserve Bank board's been meeting on the second Tuesday of every month since 1960, Mr Abbott's mistake in itself is neither here nor there ... what it to me shows is that you can't afford to trust him with the detail of the economy.''

"Everyone can get an individual number wrong, to err is perfectly human ... but when Mr Abbott thinks he can coast into office and not do the homework, that is a worry. It’s a real worry.''

Andu 24th Apr 2012 14:50

Bill Shorten isn't as stupid as you might imagine, sisemen. He knows that his initial comments making Tony Abbott seem to be a fool will be widely broadcast in the Labor-compliant MSM, while the retraction might rate a one column correction on the TV and radio equivalent of page 97 'below the fold'.

It's the modern day equivalent of St Augustine's(?) parable of the penitent who admitted in confession to spreading a false scandal. The good St A. told him to scatter a pillow full of feathers in the streets of Rome and come back to him after he'd done so. When the penitent returned having done as instructed, St A. told him to go out and retrieve every feather. When the man said that that would be impossible, St A. told him that the same applied to his original lie - that no retraction, however thorough, could ever undo the damage done by the original lie.

Bill Shorten and his media advisors know how true to life this old parable is. All too many voters, particularly but not only the younger voters, not particularly politically involved beyond what they see or hear in passing will have seen or heard of yet another (supposed) Abbott gaffe to add to the "women don't like him", "he's economically illiterate", "he's not prime ministerial", "he wears inappropriate clothing/costumes" (the budgie smugglers episode) and how many other "truths" created by Labor spinmeisters and eagerly repeated by the MSM will remember only the original comment made by Shorten and never catch any retraction (if it's ever made) by the MSM. Job well done as far as they're concerned.

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