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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

chuboy 21st Jul 2013 03:58

How ironic then, that capitalism is what has caused privatisation of monopoly essential infrastructure in this country to fail so miserably.

Unless you are aware of people who are happy paying more for electricity to line the pockets of a wealthy few? Perhaps that is fine by you?

P.S. Thank you for that amusing picture but I am not a socialist just because I think our pipes, ports and wires should be owned by the Commonwealth...

500N 21st Jul 2013 04:13

chuboy

They had a person on 774 saying the same thing.

If they can't get to Australia they won't travel.

Why oh why has it taken so long and so many deaths for someone in Gov't to actually put something hard nose in and not worry abut what it looks like.

Fliegenmong 21st Jul 2013 04:19

Here's to TA supporting eh 500??

Right I'm back outside, gorgeous day here today, just back from the mountains and a picnic lunch with Mrs Fliegs, back to bask in the wonderful winter sun :ok:

Buster Hyman 21st Jul 2013 07:00

Capitalism caused it? Wow, they have so much influence! And here I was thinking democratically elected Governments, standing with a privatisation platform actually made those decisions.

Lets not forget that State run infrastructure was abysmal prior to privatisation. A state of affairs that brought about privatisation in the first place. Of course, if you're happy to pay ever increasing taxes to service the State debt and line the pockets of lending institutions.... Perhaps that's fine by you?


Anyway, it's useless debating this point for two reasons... (a) I use a different type of tin foil to you and (b) I actually agree with you.


I think certain infrastructure should remain state controlled, and I can only consider Victoria in my reasoning. I think Kennetts hand was forced by the crippling, inherited debt of the previous Labor administration, the unwillingness of Unions to drag themselves out of the 70's, and yes, vested interests encouraging the reforms. Where I would concede it mostly went wrong was in the parameters that were set for the privatisation. Oh, and where this problem stems from is the Public Service... I know, I still see the ineptitude every day.

CoodaShooda 21st Jul 2013 08:14

Capitalism has certainly been the enemy of the union movement.
All of those tradies who took the chance to become self employed rather than continue as card carrying pawns in the battle between management and the unions. Certainly cut into membership numbers.

I also agree that certain essential services need to remain in state control but run as a business, not a bureaucracy.

It also seems that it's been the state governments, of both persuasions, that have dropped the ball on infrastructure development and privatisations.

Creates a few problems for potential voters when you can't agree with either of the major parties.

For the third election running, it's a case of considering who is likely to do the least amount of damage over the next three years.

Worrals in the wilds 21st Jul 2013 08:24

Buster, agree on both counts.
We're getting the Privatisation spin up here with full force. IMO the reason governments like it is that it absolves responsibility; when the prices go up and the quality of service goes down they can skive off into the shadows and say 'blame XYZ utilities, it's all their fault.' :*

Of course XYZ Utilities buys said infrastructure with the purpose of making lots of money. That becomes a problem when it's a type of infrastructure that doesn't actually make money, because they have to gouge maintenance and services to keep it profitable. Prisons are a prime example, as is power. The private toll road concept has turned into a debacle; they've fallen like dominoes and plenty of people have lost a lot of money.

I'm a bit of a leftie :}, but IMO I pay taxes to the government so they provide power, roads, prisons and the like. If they're not going to provide those things and I'm going to get ripped off by a bunch of multi-nationals and 'shareholders', WTF am I paying taxes again? What exactly does the government do? It's not like taxes go down every time they sell off an asset.

There is a lot of dead wood in the public service. I know, I've been there. However, I don't see why governments can't run stuff efficiently. Having seen the Qld LNP government sell off enterprises that actually made money (such as Q Fleet) I get very sceptical about the privatisation mantra. How about governments take some responsibility and get more efficient?

Actually credit where credit is (begrudgingly :}) due, the Qld government has been doing a bit of that. I haven't always agreed with their methods, but the truth of the matter is that they've gotten rid of some very useless people and processes. Some good people too, but I guess that's the way of it. If they stuck with that and moved away from the lazy privatisation threats I'd be a lot more supportive.

sisemen 21st Jul 2013 08:28


Unless you are aware of people who are happy paying more for electricity to line the pockets of a wealthy few?
Yep. There's a whole bunch of them in WA and they're probably in the other States as well.

Who?

The people who willingly fork out more to get "green" electricity! Mostly greenies but there are some other gullible folk out there as well. They also swell the profits of airlines such as Qantas by ticking the box which says that they are more than willing to fork out more money to "offset" the "carbon" that their particular flight is going to put into the atmosphere.

And we get worked up about Nigerian scams. :*

Worrals in the wilds 21st Jul 2013 08:47


All of those tradies who took the chance to become self employed rather than continue as card carrying pawns in the battle between management and the unions. Certainly cut into membership numbers.
IMO this is something many unions failed to get their heads around. If they'd appealed to those members as members of an association (similar to the various law societies and medical associations) they would have retained members and influence. Some unions have done this and have benefited from it. Others missed the boat.

Sisemen, as a Nat (tell me if I'm wrong :}), what are your views on privatisation? From talking to people here, a dislike of privatisation is something both many Nat and Labor supporters have in common.

P.S. agree re 'green' power. I laughed my arse off when I saw Virgin were offering this; they sure are good at separating the buck from the consumer :E Put it this way; any major airport has underground supplied fuel. There aren't two separate pipelines for green and brown fuel. :suspect:

500N 21st Jul 2013 08:50

Sisemen

Don't get me started on the Green energy.

Everywhere I go in the country is screwed by big eyesore Wind Turbines.

Once beautiful hills now ruined.

Andu 21st Jul 2013 09:12

I find myself agreeing with you 100% on the privatization question, Worrals. A one off profit, which all too quickly is swallowed up into consolidated revenue, never to be seen again, does not replace an annual income or (more importantly) the public's continued ownership of the asset that's been sold off.

However, our quaintly named public 'servants' have done us and themselves no favours in overburdening those public utilities with unsustainable costs through work practices that are simply... the only word that comes to mind is unsustainable.

My daughter's a bit of a high flyer and has been in the workforce almost 15 years, almost all of it in the private sector. She did one short term contract for a government department - and almost climbed the walls in frustration. The whole system was set up to prevent anyone putting in extra hours or extra work (something that she took for granted as part of her job in the private sector). For instance, it was impossible to stay on in the office after 6 pm. (Something I know she did - and does - quite regularly in the private sector.) The building's security system would not allow it.

I recall one comment she made: "The point is, most of them (the public servants) don't think they're not working hard. They really think they're putting in a full day's work, but they're not. They just have no idea of what a full day's work in the private sector really is."

I think anyone with any experience of working in Canberra would recognise this immediately - and 99% of those who are part of the Canberra system would be totally mystified to think that there is any other way than the Public Service Way. Hence the move to privatization.

Worrals in the wilds 21st Jul 2013 09:30


I recall one comment she made: "The point is, most of them (the public servants) don't think they're not working hard. They really think they're putting in a full day's work, but they're not. They just have no idea of what a full day's work in the private sector really is."
ROFLMAO. :E
Sounds similar to a mate of mine; she's a PR guru (younger than me) and being between gigs, took a job with the Council. We met up for drinks and she was aghast; 'they told me how busy they were, because sometimes they had three jobs on the go at once... if we'd only had three jobs at Urootem PR we'd have been terrified that the place was going broke :ooh:'... I told her to treat it as a holiday and look around for something else. She's now wowing them down in ol' Sydney town and back to her preferred 80 working/schmoozing hours a week, complete with champagne and canape diet. :cool:

There's a reason I left the public service, and every time I catch up with a public service mate I'm reminded of that. However, I don't see that this needs to be the norm. I think that one of the problems is a lack of mobility of staff between the private and public sectors. Both serve a purpose and both industries have pros and cons which the other could benefit from.

There's no doubt that due to secure tenure the public service has become a holdling pen for dinosaurs and lazy people. This shouldn't be the case. However, nor should the private workforce be debased to a seething pit of involuntary casuals, part timers and contract labour. Apart from the social impact, it doesn't engender loyal workers who do what's correct rather than politically expedient. It breeds a culture of yes people and short term bandaid solutions rather than dedicated employees who'll do what's best for the enterprise. When it all goes tits up, the aforementioned short term people are three contracts ahead and no-one can understand the problem, let alone fix it.

As always, the truth hides in the middle.

7x7 21st Jul 2013 10:43

PNG paper labels asylum plan "Ruddiculous".

Couldn't have put it better myself.

7x7 21st Jul 2013 11:25

From the Piers Ackerman site. Ouch!!


This Rudd Govt. has done nothing but make bad investments with borrowed money, with no beneficial return, on behalf of the Aust. taxpayers.
If the People Smugglerís Enterprise was listed on the ASX, itís value would have increased substantially, with the Rudd announcement of the new open ended PNG contract. There is no return to the shareholders (taxpayers) on the deal, but very lucrative for companies involved, ie. DECMIL AUST. PTY LTD which just received a contract for $150,000,000,00 million,to June 2014 for one year, from the Dept. of Immigration and Citizenship. And thatís just for Manus Is. The budget for this dept. is already over by $10 BILLION and rising. In 2006 the people smuggler trade had been healed to a scratch by the previous govt. The Rudd Govt removed the remaining Bandaid, and allowed it to become a festering sore. Rudd is now paying another country to try to heal it again. A third world country ,at that, whose citizens come to Qld for medical treatment, because there none available in their own country. OMG.

500N 21st Jul 2013 11:36

Seems like the AS industry is almost as lucrative as the mining
and Security contractors industry !!!

Andu 21st Jul 2013 11:43

Some rather interesting photographs here of "poor, oppressed" asylum seekers disembarking at Christmas Island.

Well worth a look.

Some great Aussies live on Christmas Island. Meet a dead-set patriot, Shaz with the telephoto lens. - Michael Smith News

500N 21st Jul 2013 11:54

They certainly look underfed and oppressed.

You don't build muscles like that just ploughing a paddock !

parabellum 21st Jul 2013 12:13

Straight from the Republican Guard, here to report on their fellow man.

500N 21st Jul 2013 12:19

I didn't pick they were Iranian.

But yes, I wonder how many have come in.

sisemen 21st Jul 2013 15:45

Now we know why SHY is so keen for them to come in.

Solid Rust Twotter 21st Jul 2013 19:22

Any Oz/PNG laws re photographing sensitive govt installations that could be invoked here? If so, I wonder how long it'll be before young Shaz receives a visit from the constabulary on the orders of some labor apparatchik?


Shades of Zuma declaring his palatial new taxpayer funded private residence a National Key Point and pushing through the Secrecy bill to avoid having any awkward questions asked.


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