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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

david1300 2nd Apr 2012 01:59

Or the extreme male right-wingers here could befriend the female lefties to help these misguided lasses up their ratings, so to speak. :)

sisemen 2nd Apr 2012 02:11

Ah but Lex, Howard said that he had changed his mind and then he campaigned and went to an election with that as the major platform. He was honest.

Gillard, on a similar major platform, went to the media and stated categorically that it would not happen. And because she sought to do a deal with the Greens to keep the ALP in power and save the acute embarrassment of a one-term government she reneged. She was dishonest. A liar.

An honest person would have gone to the country with the new paradigm.

And that's why the baseball bats will come out swinging when she plucks up sufficient courage to expose her "mandate" to the electorate.

Lex Talionis 2nd Apr 2012 03:10


Sisemen,would you like me to point out the broken promises of John Howard and that Tony Abbott has said that unless his statements are in writing you can't hold him to his word either.

Did Gillard put it in writing that there would be no tax?
I have already said that I think Gillard showed poor political sense in doing what she has done.

Do you really want me to list the broken promises other than the 'NO GST' promise that John Howard made?

I doubt that there would be many politicians who could lie straight in bed.

david1300 2nd Apr 2012 04:01

Former Labor leader Mark Latham believes that Julia is too tainted as a liar to lead Labor to the next election:

LABOR can't go to an election with Julia Gillard as leader and needs to install a "non-liar" into the post, former leader Mark Latham said yesterday.
Raising talk of leadership change only weeks after Ms Gillard beat a challenge from Kevin Rudd, Mr Latham believes there is no way the party would stick with Ms Gillard.
"Well, the only option for the Labor Party is to bring in a non-liar as prime minister," he told Sky TV's Australian Agenda. "And inevitably, as certain as night follows day, they will change leaders before the next election.
"They can't possibly go to the next poll with Gillard. I mean, there's no way of unscrambling the egg, having broken an important election promise like this."
Mr Latham said that aside from structural problems within the ALP, which led to the Queensland election loss, the party needed to heed lessons about the broken carbon tax promise: "There is absolutely no margin for lying."
Mark Latham's lament on 'liar' PM Julia Gillard | thetelegraph.com.au

But I guess not everyone shares his view, as evidenced by posts here.

What I find more interesting than the article itself, are the comments, which are about 20:1 supporting what he says. This is similar to the comments leading up to the Qld elections on reports of Blighs comments in the week before the election. They were also running about 20:1 bagging her.

Buster Hyman 2nd Apr 2012 04:52


Buster,it appears as though you missed the point of my post which was about religious tolerance and understanding that the problem is religious radicalism not simply different religious beliefs or name calling.
Didn't miss your point. It was irrelevant to my point.

I assume you'd gone off on a tangent wrt the video Andu put up. But my post was in regard to the name calling...

I agree completely.Physical appearance and speech patterns serve no purpose and have nothing to do with a debate on political ability,accomplishments or failure to achieve.
Which you seemed to answer before going off on the standard smoke & mirrors response...

However,if it is name calling that worries you, as far as I'm concerned I would like to see the end of all name calling such as Juliar and so on.
Now, unlike some, I don't go trolling to age old posts to pull out a quote to prove a point, so I'm happy to concede that you might not post such inflammatory stuff, but it's reminiscent of others dishing it out, but not being able to take it!

Andu 2nd Apr 2012 05:40

Back to the video about Belgium that I posted (post # 511): this bloke is quite literally declaring war (not, by any means, an overstatement) on the Western lifestyle. Not unlike the single-minded Christian missionaries who went into darkest Africa 200 years ago to convert the heathens, his ambition, openly declared, is to impose what he considers his superior lifestyle on Belgians (and all non-Muslims).

Which begs the question: what are Belgians* to do? (*And anyone else in a Western country with a growing Muslim population, the operative word being "growing".) Sit back and hope people like this man will go away, that he will moderate his beliefs and live peaceably alongside us kuffurs? Is that likely?

Hope that "moderate" Muslims will eventually gain the ascendency over zealots like this man? (Anyone who has lived in a Muslim country, even so-called moderate Muslim countries like Malaysia or Indonesia, to say nothing of those who've lived in Saudi Arabia, will know the total fallacy of this pipe dream.)

So do we sit back and wait until our own "one man, one vote" rule votes in a government hellbent on destroying (quite literally) the very freedoms that "one man, one vote" was set up to enshrine? (And it will then become literally "one MAN, one vote".)

I fear that the crisis, when this prickly (to put it mildly) issue cannot be ignored, as it is being ignored by virtually every political representative in this country (and all by the Le Pens of Europe) is far closer than many of us hope it will be. Indeed, it could be argued that the two ruling Parties in Australia, Labor and the Greens, have policies that seem to positively encourage Muslim immigration, hastening the time when this crisis will be upon us.

Interesting times ahead.

Clare Prop 2nd Apr 2012 07:29

Firstly let me state that I find any adult who can look you in the eye and tell you that some imaginary friend tells them to do things must be completely nuts. And yes a tiny minority of nutty people can be very very dangerous.


But if you speak out publicly you could find yourself in the same situation, it seems, as Ayan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie and Geert Wilders, needing round the clock protection, losing all your own freedoms or lying dead in the street like Van Gough. So that's probably why a lot of pollies won't touch the hot potato.

And could the number muslim immigrantswanting to live here be becuse our pollies have to unquestioningly obey Uncle Sam and join in when OBomber fancies blowing the crap out of muslim countries? A bit of karma?

Just a few thoughts.

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Apr 2012 09:17

Islam advocates proseletysing. So do most forms of Christianity, notably Roman Catholicism. There's a whole world of difference between wanting people to join your team and advocating violence to attain that objective. I have nothing against the first and everything against the second. (Standing by for Union jokes along the lines of 'What's that lump of wood? That's our membership speil' :}. Never more, Miranda; Never more...;))

Islam membership was sitting at 1.71% in the 2006 Australian Census; even if it's grown a bit since then there's a long way to go before we reach Brussels levels (quoted as over 40% in the video, from memory, which I didn't know). Even if they're prolific breeders the vast majority of new Australian citizenships come from non-Muslim countries. As you're all aware, only citizens can vote, and our government is not bound by huggy fluff EU Human Rights treaty constraints (or in fact, any citizen rights at all. No Australian has 'rights').
Australian Citizenship – Facts and statistics

As for the video, it's definitely a worry and if anyone was advocating that sort of thing in Australia I would be concerned, but are they? I know there are a couple of firebrands in Sydney who probably have their own dedicated ASIO trailers permanently parked out the front, but in general I don't believe we're seeing that level of fanatacism here, at least not outside the western suburbs of Sydney. I'm also glad that we don't see much of the extreme Christian views that seem to get a lot of airtime in the USA. :(

The complaint I hear from a lot of Sydney people is about gangs of a certain ethnicity wreaking havoc. I hear it from too many people for it to be a fabrication, so there's obviously a problem. I would argue that this is primarily a law enforcement problem caused by years of inaction (and rumoured political pressure) by the NSW Police. Obviously that sort of thing is detrimental to public safety and public confidence in the justice system. No-one should be above the law, no matter what their ethnicity or how willing their lobby groups are to donate to the dominant political party :hmm:. If there is a law and order and/or organized crime problem in Sydney and surrounding areas, that should be addressed by the State government. What those criminals' ethnicity is should be irrelevant.

There are still plenty of audacious criminal rackets being run by people with names like Jones and Smith, not to mention Lee, Trang, Trimbole...the list goes on. A multicultural society is always going to have multicultural crime.

Buster Hyman 2nd Apr 2012 11:50

1.7% Worrals? Oh, I wish. My municipality it sits at 13.4%

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Apr 2012 12:22

High.
Best be talking to the Catholics...:}

Andu 2nd Apr 2012 12:36

Catch a train on the Bankstown line, WitW, or take a walk through the shops in Lakemba or just about any suburb in the south western suburbs of Sydney. Not too many pinkies to be seen, nor female heads of hair - in fact, you'll feel like the proverbial dandruff on the vicar's coat.

On tonight's news (Sydney) Channel 7 featured a protest by half a dozen non-Muslims who wore the full niquab (aka 'burka') to a number of public places (including a bank, where no one stopped them entering). The most interesting piece in the clip was the two young Muslim males screaming abuse at the protesters and demanding they remove their "burkas" (and tearing one off) because the protesters were showing "disrespect".

RJM 2nd Apr 2012 13:34

ABC TV Q&A tonight - Labor luvvies talking up the myth that anti-Gillard feelings are because she's a woman. For the purposes of this argument they conveniently lump 'anti-Labor' in with 'anti-Gillard'.

'There are none so blind as those who will not see...'

sisemen 2nd Apr 2012 15:21

Luvverly. Let 'em keep it up. It's more humane. That way they won't see the baseball bat until they're out for the count.

hellsbrink 2nd Apr 2012 16:41


Which begs the question: what are Belgians* to do? (*And anyone else in a Western country with a growing Muslim population, the operative word being "growing".) Sit back and hope people like this man will go away, that he will moderate his beliefs and live peaceably alongside us kuffurs? Is that likely?
Andu

You do have to remember that idiots like that "person" interviewed are, by far, the vast MINORITY. Like "white supremacists" worldwide, they do not represent the views of the vast majority of their ilk. Unfortunately, like with the rabid far left (also a minority) or the far right (also a minority), or even the so-called Christian extremists or "animal rights" fundamentalists, they shout loud enough so their voice is heard. And the problem with that is simple, people keep listening to them and talking about them, giving them the exposure their feeble little egos strive for.

Ignore the buggers and they'll go away, if you don't they'll just make more noise and prey on your own, unjustified, fears.

And when you are reduced to using a video from CBN, there is no hope left.


PS


As for the video, it's definitely a worry and if anyone was advocating that sort of thing in Australia I would be concerned, but are they?
You can be sure they are, you can be sure there's a "Sharia4Australia" mob out there. Anyway, it's a moo point (like a cow's opinion, not relevant) as that shower of poop Andu linked to are busy being reamed by the Belgian Government, with their website being pulled, jail sentences and fines for their activities.

Ancient Observer 2nd Apr 2012 16:48

As a non-Aussie, I was wondering whether your politicians are any worse than the British ones? Maybe they are just more honest about their lies?

Alternatively, is there a special disease that they pick up in Canberra?
I spent 10 days there a couple of years ago, and I have not (yet) noticed any peculiar symptoms.

G-CPTN 2nd Apr 2012 20:08

Meanwhile, in part of Sweden . . .
 

TZ350 2nd Apr 2012 21:09

[quote] hellsbrink
And

You do have to remember that idiots like that "person" interviewed are, by far, the vast MINORITY. Like "white supremacists" worldwide, they do not represent the views of the vast majority of their ilk. Unfortunately, like with the rabid far left (also a minority) or the far right (also a minority), or even the so-called Christian extremists or "animal rights" fundamentalists, they shout loud enough so their voice is heard. And the problem with that is simple, people keep listening to them and talking about them, giving them the exposure their feeble little egos strive for.

Ignore the buggers and they'll go away, if you don't they'll just make more noise and prey on your own, unjustified, fears.


And when you are reduced to using a video from CBN, there is no hope left. [quote]



So you suggest the afflicted countries pretend there is no problem , whilst the rabid neanderthals multiply..............and you end up with the cesspool that is the UK
( from which you have escaped..... :rolleyes: ) and the natives become second class citizens, whose rights are abdicated to the Islamists........ ? :mad:

Any of these Islamic scum espousing Sharia or any of its associated 14th century barbarism should be instantly deported or ordered to leave to a "toilet" of their choice ; if citizenship problems preclude this option, or no country wants them, round them up and put them in internment camps. They are, in effect, advocating the overthrow of law and order, as such it should classed as treason.

There will, unfortunately, be another Toulouse style incident if no action is taken. That was a wake up call.

And to those on the left who will cry " racism ", consider for a moment those emigrants, originally from a country afflicted with this disease, who emigrated to the west to enjoy freedom of choice, western style and living in the 21st century.

How do they feel with these neanderthal scum advocating a return to what they escaped from in their new country?

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Apr 2012 22:10


Catch a train on the Bankstown line, WitW, or take a walk through the shops in Lakemba or just about any suburb in the south western suburbs of Sydney. Not too many pinkies to be seen, nor female heads of hair - in fact, you'll feel like the proverbial dandruff on the vicar's coat.
Sure. Same in Sunnybank, except they're all Chinese. Same in Kenmore except they're all South Africans ;). I don't like the way our bigger cities are developing ethnically specific suburbs, but it's probably natural to a certain extent, for example Sunnybank is where the Chinese grocery shops all are, and South Africans (and probably the Chinese for that matter) call their friends in Brisbane and find out where to move before they arrive.

With respect to the Australian situation I agree with hellsbrink. Your bank story (I didn't see it) is cheering and I would hope that was the norm. However, I've never lived in Sydney or Melbourne so I may be a little idealistic. By and large the Brisbane Islamic community are a nice enough bunch and apart from all the clobber, you hardly notice them.

The UK is a different matter and not one that I'm qualified to comment on, but one thing is for sure; the UK and Australia have radically different immigration policies and have done for decades. Nor do we get tied up in knots with all this 'rights' stuff. Section 80 - 80.2B of the Criminal Code are fairly clear about the penalties for creating or inciting a racially motivated ruckus, and if there were a serious problem I don't think the federal government would be afraid to use it, because apart from anything else they'd have the populace on side. IMO, it's good that it's in the federal legislation not the individual state codes, because while we all love Canberra :rolleyes: they're less susceptible to influence from particular lobby groups.
Criminal Code Act 1995

Either way, if we want the freedom to jump on here and bag out our esteemed leaders and wannabe leaders on a regular basis (which we certainly wouldn't be doing if we lived in Singapore :eek:), that freedom means we also have to put up with a certain amount of loudmouthery from people we don't agree with. Unless it advocates violence or civil unrest, I don't see a way around that.

TZ350 2nd Apr 2012 22:34

[quote] Worrals in the wilds

Either way, if we want the freedom to jump on here and bag out our esteemed leaders and wannabe leaders on a regular basis (which we certainly wouldn't be doing if we lived in Singapore http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...milies/eek.gif), that freedom means we also have to put up with a certain amount of loudmouthery from people we don't agree with. Unless it advocates violence or civil unrest, I don't see a way around that. [quote]


My understanding is that any racial extremism, religious or otherwise, is not tolerated at all in Singapore ?

If so, that is model to aspire to ( although they probably wouldn't have allowed the cancer to develop like the UK and Europe in the first place ! ) :hmm:

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Apr 2012 22:35

It's not.
Neither is talking politics. :eek:


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