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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

sisemen 4th Feb 2013 15:42

You're not wrong - and in spades

The ALPBC headlines the transcript as "Al Gore questions Tony Abbott's climate policy". Lateline - 04/02/2013: Al Gore questions Tony Abbotts climate policy

And of course, Australia has always been a continent of extreme weather, but the extremes have appeared to get worse there as well. Last week's downpours and deluges in Queensland continue a pattern. The fires just not too many weeks before are of the kind that have led Australian firefighters to say, as they've said to me, that they have never experienced the kinds of fires that they have been called upon to fight in recent years.

Mother Nature now speaking very loudly and persuasively in keeping with what the scientists predicted would unfold.

RJM 4th Feb 2013 17:07


'...Of droughts and flooding rains'

WITW - perhaps our current media-dominated political arena makes too much of likeability as a necessary attribute of a good leader.

I suspect that in former times of less media intensity we've had some very effective but not particularly likeable PMs.

I've read that Billy Hughes wasn't exactly outgoing, and you don't think of Menzies or Chifley slapping you on the back and buying the next round.

We can't go back, of course, and I'm happy with the present level of media coverage. If it exposes Gillard asd a dodgy customers, I won't vote for her. If the media reveal Abbott to be unlikeable but still well-motivated and reasonably honest, he'll get my vote ahead of Gillard.

500N 4th Feb 2013 17:14

"Last week's downpours and deluges in Queensland continue a pattern."

yes, it does continue a pattern, it's called the WET season :ugh::ugh:

Cyclone forms, turns into a low, dumps a heap of rain.
Happened in Katherine, NT 2 years ago after the cyclone.

Happens every year. Partly depends on when the monsoon trough
comes down over Australia. The date it arrives changes every year.

"The fires just not too many weeks before are of the kind that have led Australian firefighters to say, as they've said to me, that they have never experienced the kinds of fires that they have been called upon to fight
in recent years."

Really, I've on been in Aus 30+ years, we've had Ash Wednesday
and a few others in Victoria alone and before I arrived, the same thing
every so often.

How about the fact that a heap less burning off gets done and less
smaller fires so that we now progress to huge fires every few years

RJM 4th Feb 2013 17:20

Couldn't agree more, 500N, especially about burning off, which used to be routine for farmers around here but which now requires extensive paperwork, lots of precautionary measures and personnel etc. No wonder burning off happens less often than it should.

500N 4th Feb 2013 17:26


Greenies and greenies on councils have a fair bit to answer for
as was shown after the fires a few years ago in Victoria.

It's not just the fires, it's the lack of clearing in and around towns
that gets the fires hotter and closer than before.

If I loved in the bush and didn't have the restrictions, I'd burn
a ring around my house. I know one farmer who always kept
a ploughed paddock between his house and the north in summer.

Andu 4th Feb 2013 21:00

So Al Gore is impressed by Julia Gillard. Could that be a case of one shameless charlatan recognising a kindred spirit?

Worrals in the wilds 4th Feb 2013 21:32

Al Gore on Lateline saying that we have a Prime Minister that we "can be proud of" and telling us that we ought to vote Labor at the next election.
That's just lost Labor a bunch more votes then :}. The Party vote must be approaching close family and friends territory. Of course Gore's just a manic gob who'll spruik anywhere (remember when that Tennessee newspaper published his power bill :E? , but why Lateline thought that wheeling out a foreign leftie would help the cause in Australia is beyond me. I assume they want to help the cause, because they are Lateline...:suspect:

It's not just the fires, it's the lack of clearing in and around towns that gets the fires hotter and closer than before.
This is not soley the fault of councils, either. Bush retreats are very trendy with retired city dwellers, complete with trees overhanging the roof and scrub right up to the front door. This is so even in SEQ, where councils have generally allowed clearing for fire breaks.

It's all very pretty until the fires come through...:ooh: People who move to the bush need to make themselves aware of bush hazards, but many city refugees aren't doing that. As an example, the recent storms in SEQ wiped out power on Tamborine Mountain for several days. That wiped out the tank pumps most residents use to get water into their houses, because Tamborine is semi rural and has no town water. This seemed to take many residents by surprise, though I don't know how, because it's not exactly a state secret.

Sensible old cynics who are used to rural living have a diesel pump or some other form of backup, but in recent years Tamborine has become very urbanised. Many people move there thinking it's the same as the city (and it's been advertised as such by unscrupulous real estate agents) but it simply isn't. If you live in a semi rural town you have to be a grown up, because water, power and food supplies are not nearly as guaranteed, but many people are moving to these places without learning this.

500N 4th Feb 2013 21:38

"Tamborine Mountain"

I heard about that from someone down here who lives up there.

Husband was down here, wife up there, disaster, all electricity
and phones out for a few days. My response was so what, it's
not the end of the world to have a phone out.

She couldn't cope !

I hate to think what would happen if a real cyclone came through.

david1300 4th Feb 2013 22:13

WITW - oooh, very clever leftist ploy in your last post:D. Subtle change of topic from the ALP/Gillard and their mess, via Gore to blame the trendy city dwellers (possibly by implication, Lib demographic) for much fire loss. Deflect from the real issue and start a fire, or at least a lot of smoke, in another direction:= You have learned well, and the pattern is so subtle and clever that maybe you do/don't even see how often it is used:p;)

Is the next thing we can expect: volunteer firies have been found to sometimes light fires; Abbot is a sometime volunteer firie = Abbot must light the fires (or at least condone them, because by association he is a pyromaniac as well as a misogynist):yuk::yuk:

Edited to correct typo. Maybe I should preview my posts.

Worrals in the wilds 4th Feb 2013 22:18

I just responded to two previous posts in one. :8:}

As I'm one of the posters who's been saying that federal Labor are summarily screwed since the thread started (not to mention the Qld ALP, who were more screwed than even I predicted) I can only say that if I were a professional leftie propagandist, I'd be expecting a tea and bikkies chat with the boss by now. :eek:

North Tamborine is full of Labor and Liberal yuppies. Eagle Heights (also on the mountain) is full of urbanites, who I'd guess would be generally Labor. The farming land around the mountain is deadset 100% National Party, and they're the ones with the backup pumps. Whatever their politics, I don't blame people for getting flooded/ burned out any more than I blame people for getting mugged. However, if you live in an area that's prone to either natural disasters or muggers, then it's sensible to take precautions.

Anyway, trendy city voters in Brisbane tend to be evenly split between Labor and the Libs. Until recently all three inner city Brisbane electorates were held by the ALP; Griffith and Lilley still are (Rudd and Swan), though Gambaro won Brisbane from Labor's Arch Bevis a few years ago and Lilley is tipped to go Liberal at the next election. No doubt you're aware of this, it's more for the benefit of interstate readers.

I believe you're from SEQ (you've mentioned this before) and I'm sorry if you're one of the people from that area who lost power. However, Tamborine has long been known to lack basic resources and IMO never should have been developed to the extent it has been. Marketing Eagle Heights as a suburb (rather than a rural mountain community) has given many residents a false sense of security.

MTOW 4th Feb 2013 22:31

I heard KRudd on AM this morning and had forgotten how incredibly annoying his voice is and how false he sounds when he attempts to come across as blokey, (in this case, with his "Give us a break" comment).

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Re Tambourine mountain: if memory serves me correctly, it suffers from a problem that many such 'desirable' places suffer - a single road in and out - and that road having thick vegetation very close to it for much of its length. It's not a place I'd like my family to be if a bushfire was approaching. I seem to remember that the Greens/Labor ferals dominate on local councils.

Buster Hyman 4th Feb 2013 22:34

Hmmm...not sure where you're coming from David. WITW is probably more right than left & a review of her posts would tell you so.

However, having said that, Worrals is probably more balanced than a lot of us 'hotheads' on here...I think even Fleigs would back me up on this. :p

Wiley 4th Feb 2013 22:57

Just reported to Ray Hadley by a listener that contractors are putting in swimming pools [PLURAL] at Sydney's Villawood Detention Centre. I suppose they need two so the wimmin can have wun and not be bovvered by the men. (Sorry, I just slipped into Bill Shorten mode.)

This is unconfirmed, but if this proves to be true, we really have lost the plot, haven't we?

500N 4th Feb 2013 22:58

Yes, if true we have really lost the plot.

david1300 4th Feb 2013 23:32

MTOW - Mt Tamborine (no U) has 5 access roads, if you include Mystery Road, but depending on where you are it is easy to be cut off from one or more of them.

And this is what I mean about a subtle change of agenda - here we are talking about fires, access roads, etc when the issue was the disintegration of the ALP :rolleyes:

This diversionary tactic is far better employed by the left than the right, whether by conscious choice, or by subtle inculcation from an early age :zzz:

sisemen 4th Feb 2013 23:32

My mate started a similar rumour, just for fun and to see how far it got, about the new detention centre in Northam, WA. It had the whole district in uproar.

Turned out not to be true. They haven't even got one pool!

They do have a roofed basketball court area though, and tellies in every room, and massive computer facilities, and air con, and free mobile phones, and.......

....all supplied by that rotten, dysfunctional rabble called the ALP

(just to bring it back on track for David :\

Worrals in the wilds 4th Feb 2013 23:46

The current ALP suck. They are disintegrating. Let's discuss absolutely nothing else of interest to Australians on this thread ever again. :}

Do you have anything else to add on the subject or do you want to keep calling me stupid?
If so, I really don't mind. It's an habitual right wing tactic (particularly during IR discussions) so I'm used to it. :bored:

Clare Prop 5th Feb 2013 00:22

Talking of Northam, flew over it the other day and seemed that some more land around it is being cleared, perhaps they are expanding it?

For more arrivals, or perhaps one of Nicola's gulags?

(was fun watching her squirm on 7.30 report last night)

david1300 5th Feb 2013 00:44

WITW - I don't believe you are stupid, nor have I called you that. I haven't even labelled your behavior as stupid, either. This is another subtle leftist ploy to put words in the mouth of another (very ably modelled by current government ministers - just listen to how many times they start of with TA will do x, or y)?

For the record, I believe that you are highly intelligent and very articulate, and I read your posts here and on other threads with interest. We live in the same geographic area and I'd love to have a coffee with you sometime (my post code is 421x). I think I'd find it enjoyable, stimulating and challenging - all good things.

I am sometimes 'captive' to my upbringing, experience, bias and prejudices, no matter how objective I try and be; and I believe some, maybe many, of your posts reflect your bias in a very subtle, clever way.

Anyway, enough of that. I'll leave the last word on this to you.

And my not-so-subtle statement on where I stand:
1: I believe Gillard is the worst Australian PM I have experienced, on many levels, and the government she leads likewise,
2: I don't believe you can improve the human condition by constantly seeking to redistribute wealth without the recipient/s being required to participate in wealth-creation,
3: I believe that the capitalistic excesses we see in 'big business' is sickening
4: I believe that many modern issues (perceived climate change creating a 'need' carbon trading for eg) may have some basic element of reality (may have), but they are hijacked by many self-interests,
5: Similarly, I believe the trade union movement has been hijacked by self-interest, and they have ceased to represent the broad interests of their members.

Lastly, this thread is titled "War in Australia(any Oz Politics)", not 'Issues of Interest to Australians'. I can start a brushfire thread if you like.

Worrals in the wilds 5th Feb 2013 01:07

Okay, fair enough. I think we both touched some nerves. I'm also in the 421 bracket. FWIW, I'm sorry if you're in the bit that went without power for some days.

I am sometimes 'captive' to my upbringing, experience, bias and prejudices, no matter how objective I try and be; and I believe some, maybe many, of your posts reflect your bias
I think everyone's do. Where it becomes propagandist is when a person / organization pretends to be unbiassed (as the ABC do), or when they actually pretend to be supporting the other side while doing as much subtle damage as possible.

As an example, the various Qantas hamsterwheels have what appear to be a number of extremely good Qantas trolls who pretend to be hacked off workers or interested bystanders, with the purpose of flushing out Qantas workers who post negative comments or insider information on the threads (which contravenes their employment contracts). :suspect:

I could do that on here politically and pretend to be a Katter supporter or something (I think we'd all be quite good at it) but I really couldn't be arssed. I've stated my biases from the start, as have you and most regular posters, because I think without doing so it's impossible to have a proper political debate.

As for your points:
I agree with 1. (though I think Rudd came a close second), 3, 4 and 5 for some unions, but by no means all.

I detest the current federal ALP hierarchy and I hope they lose because they deserve to, just as they did in Queensland.

Lastly, this thread is titled "War in Australia(any Oz Politics)", not 'Issues of Interest to Australians'. I can start a brushfire thread if you like.
I think we tend to use it for both (particularly in slow news weeks, which this isn't), which is probably sloppy forum practice.

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