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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Zorro Polilla 11th Mar 2012 16:39


Bligh is now attempting to demolish Campbell Newman.
It seems to me RJM that Newman has long since set himself up to fail with fresh daily revelations emerging of his record as Brisbane Mayor,
hefty donations from developers, magical last minute rezoning approvals, an increasingly tangled web of family finances linked to flood recovery funding, undeclared pecuniary interests etc etc etc.

Spooked by his crumbling Ashgrove polling numbers Newman is now belatedly vowing to repent and be a really, really good boy in the future.


Thinking voters won't buy it - they've all had a gutful of Liberals duplicity at both State and Federal levels.


No presentation of her own plans, or statement of Labor's achievements - just a tear-down of the opposition intended to leave Bligh bloodied, reviled, but still in office.
Hmmmm - sounds like Anna's campaign launch must have been received way better than expected.
:D

Andu 11th Mar 2012 22:05


Thinking voters won't buy it - they've all had a gutful of Liberals duplicity at both State and Federal levels.
Ahhhh, the old "thinking voter" ploy.... so beloved of the Left... a modern day variation of the Emperor's New Clothes.

I'd love to meet just one person who's "had a gutful of Liberals duplicity at both State and Federal levels" that hasn't had that "gutful" totally overshadowed by the ten guts full they've had of Labor duplicity in the years since the Libs have been in a position to dish out anything. Let's face it, if the Libs get in, either in Queensland or Federally, and start dishing out the duplicity you accuse them of, Zorro, they've had a few years lately to learn how to do it while in Government from utter masters at the game.

I live in one of the safest Labor seats in the country, and Julia Gillard could drape herself in the hammer and sickle flag and sing (?) 'The Internationale' in that "unique" voice of hers after solemnly promising to put us all into communal farms and there'd still be enough rusted on Laborites here to put Julia's local man back in his seat in Canberra.

But some would "protest" their disappointment of Labor - by voting for the **** Greens(!)

RJM 12th Mar 2012 01:58


It seems to me RJM that Newman has long since set himself up to fail with fresh daily revelations emerging of his record as Brisbane Mayor,
hefty donations from developers, magical last minute rezoning approvals, an increasingly tangled web of family finances linked to flood recovery funding, undeclared pecuniary interests etc etc etc.

Spooked by his crumbling Ashgrove polling numbers Newman is now belatedly vowing to repent and be a really, really good boy in the future.

Thinking voters won't buy it - they've all had a gutful of Liberals duplicity at both State and Federal levels.
That's Labor's line, Zorro. I'm not a Queenslander, but there seems a lot of generalisation and not much fact in Bligh's blustering. It certainly obscures Labor's own dismal record - $85 bilion debt, downgraded credit rating (in a mining boom!), health sector in a shambles, mismanagement everywhere, Bligh's husband given a sinecure without competitive selection, public service posts stacked with mates...

Now the new new New Gillard arrives to announce that Labor in Qld is in 'the fight of its life'. More like 'lying for its life', and leave your ethics at the door. A lot of very comfortable Labor livelihoods are at stake here.

In throwing everything at trying to stop Newman winning Ashgrove, Labor is attacking a serious chink in the LNP armour.

Let's hope that the LNP wakes up very soon. If they don't, Queensland is in for another term of Labor maladministration, led there by a ruthless, value-free campaign run by self-seekers whose primary skill is winning elections.

heated ice detector 12th Mar 2012 02:42

Binding women and childrens hands and pointing them in the direction of Java,
let me guess , Lib suporter

Buster Hyman 12th Mar 2012 02:45


That's Labor's line, Zorro.
Indeed RJM. Smoke & mirrors.

You just have to look at this thread. It was started to discuss the ALP leadership challenge, yet most of the true believers could only muster arguments about Abbott & Workchoices. The belief is that if you just ignore everything around you (Nothing to see, move along) and maintain a particular focus of attack, rational people give up trying to discuss the point at hand & the true believers walk away thinking they've scored a major victory...meanwhile, Rome burns whilst Nero fiddles.

RJM 12th Mar 2012 03:53

Quite. And there's only more of the same smoke and mirrors in store if Labor win in Queensland.

Consider Kate Jones, at the centre of things as MP for Ashgrove, for example. Kate went from an arts degree in media studies at university to political adviser to pre-selection to MP, marrying Premier Bligh's chief media adviser on the way.

Oddly, none of her campaign material nor her website carries the term 'ALP', that brand being blamed for so much of what's wrong in Queensland. Kate styles herself 'Labor State Member for Ashgrove' and uses pink rather than the traditional Labor red in her campaign. Kate Jones MP - Labor State Member for Ashgrove

Premier Bligh has switched from Labor red to Liberal blue, and no longer uses the phrase Australian Labor Party or the term ALP. She says 'the Bligh government' and 'my government'.

Small points, but indicative.

But the larger reality is disastrous. Queensland has a bigger state debt than NSW and Victoria combined, and more public servants per capita than any other state.

No wonder Bligh isn't campaigning on her record, or Labor's.

MTOW 12th Mar 2012 03:57

Anyone with any experience as an investigator will tell you that one of the surest avenues to follow in any investigation is to follow the money trail.

Headlines in this morning's press would lead most disinterested observers to say that all is now explained in why a number of high-profile immigration lawyers speak so passionately in favour of the poor, oppressed asylum seekers. 60 million of taxpayers' dollars spent in handling asylum seekers' legal claims - all going into the pockets of Australian lawyers who represent them.

RJM 12th Mar 2012 04:05

'Not unassisted' as a lawyer might say by a revamping of the Migration Review Tribunal. Of the 43 members, 25 have been reappointed but the majority of the new appointments are from the 'immigration industry' including several prominent refugee advocates.

Andu 12th Mar 2012 04:39

MTOW's comment isn't quite as the newspaper report put it. Taxpayers will fork out at least $60 million in free legal advice for asylum seekers this year | thetelegraph.com.au

It's

TAXPAYERS will fork out at least $60 million in free legal advice for asylum seekers this year as new figures reveal 80 per cent of detainees are winning their appeal for refugee status.

$32 million has been paid to 22 refugee legal firms since July
and


the lawyer who led the fight to have the Gillard Government's Malaysia Solution overturned in the High Court, David Manne, appears to be one of the landmark decision's biggest beneficiaries. His Melbourne-based Refugee & Immigration Legal Centre has received $4.13 million since the refugee swap deal with Malaysia was sunk last August, courtesy of funding through the Immigration Advice and Application Assistance Scheme.
It's akin to the Aboriginal "industry" - the last thing these people want is for the poor bloody Aboriginals to succeed, for if they did, their (the "providers") bottomless gravy train would come crashing off the well-oiled rails and they'd have to find a real job.

Wiley 12th Mar 2012 04:47

The story below is almost certainly manufactured, but that doesn't make it any less true.


This is an excellent example of Socialism.

An economics teacher at a local school made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Gillard/Brown socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The teacher then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on the Gillard/Brown plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the teacher told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, and gives to those who do nothing, no-one will try or want to succeed.



These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You can not legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.


sisemen 12th Mar 2012 04:47


Thinking voters won't buy it - they've all had a gutful of Liberals duplicity at both State and Federal levels.
Comedy quote of the year! Good job that was written tongue in cheek Zorro.

I have a mate (yes, I do have some) and he and his wife are, as it turns out, ardent Laborites. This particular mate is as rich as and getting richer by the minute by various means. They support Labor because it seems to be the "intellectual" thing (and they do like to think of themselves as a cut above the rest of us mere mortals).

I asked him a while back who his accountant was and was treated to a glowing reference of this particular professional who knew every tax dodge in the book and who could save you thousands on the tax bill.

So, intellectually, it appears to be fine for the masses to give up their hard-earned to support the feckless and lazy in return for their mindless rusted on ALP votes but not for those who are earning big bucks through fair means or foul.

The word in the dictionary that covers it is - hypocrisy.

Worrals in the wilds 12th Mar 2012 05:40


...hefty donations from developers, magical last minute rezoning approvals, an increasingly tangled web of family finances linked to flood recovery funding, undeclared pecuniary interests etc etc etc.
Of course the State ALP Government never did anything dodgy at all. :rolleyes:
From today's Courier Mail editorial (and the Courier is traditionally fairly pro-Labor):
"At no time in her address did Ms Bligh admit to the mistakes of the past - and there have been plenty to choose from. She could have mentioned the fact a former senior minister, Gordon Nuttal, is still serving jail time for large-scale corruption, that another minister was also jailed for malfeasance and a one-time deputy premier resigned in disgrace after confessing to vote rorting."
The concluding paragraph declares that both sides are pretty much hopeless, which you don't need to spend $1.10 on a paper to find out.

As for magical approvals, I recall back in Beattie's time when it was decided that Brisbane needed a new or refurbished footy stadium. Several groups including the RNA, some mob at Hamilton and the Lang Park Trust tendered for what Beattie declared would be a fair and open process based on merit with the outcome to be decided (IIRC) by an independent committee. Much discussion around Brisbane about where the stadium would be was settled when reliable witnesses spotted Beattie, Mackenroth and the Lang Park Trust having a celebratory lunch at a notable Paddington restaurant a week before tenders even opened. Restauant staff known to those witnesses confirmed; it's all in the bag for Lang Park. There are a thousand stories around Brisbane like this one; the ALP have been cosy with developers and big property owners for a very long time.

Both the ALP State government and the Liberal council (not to mention the former ALP council under Soorley) were culpable when it came to flood zoning and favouring developers over common sense. Both have tried to wriggle out of it with very little success.
Paying for a Brisbane river view after flood predications proved incorrect | The Courier-Mail

Andu 12th Mar 2012 06:38

Like many others, I sent a cheque to the Brisbane flood appeal, only to be stung later by the flood levy - and to find that the majority of the money sent (like mine) to Queensland to give immediate support to flood victims is still in the Queensland Government coffers. (Or to be more accurate, I suspect, was spent elsewhere rather than distributed to flood victims.)

Zorro Polilla 12th Mar 2012 11:06



Quote:
It was mindless retaliation and vandalism in response to the mindless Bagram Burning of the Books by the American Truppen.

Absolutely not true, that theory totally refuted by the interim Libyan government.

A bold claim parabellum. Perhaps you could back it up with a credible cite?

If you were referring to the apology issued by Libya, the one I saw in no way "refuted" the US book burning as motivation.

Nor AFAIK has your claim yet been substantiated by any of the MSM all of which from Aljazeera to Murdoch to Reuters have reported the desecration as reaction to the ill considered American actions.

Considering most of those graves have lain undisturbed in Libya for nearly 70 years it beggars belief that this was an unmotivated random attack by (as you also claim) "hooligans".

parabellum 12th Mar 2012 11:39

In a statement issued by the Libyan Transitional Government and published in news papers in Australia, as well as being quoted on Sky, Channel 9 and BBC World they said, (words to the effect), That the desecration of graves was carried out by a group of local young hooligans, acting without leadership and not in retaliation for the American troops who burnt copies of the Koran. Was this not reported in Canada?

Given that interfering with graves of any religious denomination is contrary to the teachings of Islam and the fact that the current Libyan administration are quite grateful for the part played by the British in the overthrow of Qaddafi, any other response would be surprising.

I visited the graveyards around El Adem in 1965/6, they were very well looked after, far better than the two in Aden, which are a disgrace, by comparison.

Worrals in the wilds 12th Mar 2012 14:23

There are people in Australia who desecrate graves, so many that most city cemeteries won't let you add anything new except granite headstones.

While burying a family member in an historic cemetery in Brisbane recently we were all disgusted to see the damage done to statues since the last time we were there. Only the Italian mausoleums were untouched, and I suspect that's because even vandals know that Bad Things Happen to people who mess with such things. :cool: Fair enough, too.

Even in bushy cousin country, last time I visited the local church cemetery a dear little cherub placed at the corner of his mother's grave for Stephen, aged 2 weeks (who died a week after his mother) had been annihilated. It had stood there since the 1850s and I remembered it being there when I visited as a child, and being sad for both of them.

There was an ANZAC statue that was carted away and dumped; can't remember where but it was in SEQ. I tried to find it via Google and came up with 760 000+ results for ANZAC + memorial + vandalised. :sad:

There are people who do this sort of thing everywhere, including Australia. There's a short, sharp name for them that starts with a C in English; no doubt there's a similar name in Arabic. Whether they're in Libya or in Australia the meaning is the same. FWIW the only foreign war graves I have visited were in Turkey, and both Turkish and Allies graves were beautifully maintained and well respected.

Let's not forget the words of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (a devout Muslim) and remember that every country has erks whose best description starts with a C.
Gallipoli - Memorial at Anzac Cove by Ataturk.<br /> "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives

MTOW 12th Mar 2012 23:48

Worrals, I don't often disagree with your comments, but in this case, I must. The official comments of the interim Libyan government that 'hooligans' 'randomly' attacked the war graves reminds me of Mandy Rice-Davies' classic retort to the defence barrister during the trial of Stephen Ward.

Mandy Rice-Davies - Wikiquote

"Well, he would, wouldn't he."

(28 June 1963, appearing as a witness in the trial of Stephen Ward, in reply to the defence barrister putting it to her that one of the men on a certain list, Lord Astor, had denied any involvement with her. The court burst into laughter and the phrase came to be used in various circumstances, helped by the touch of innuendo from the court case.)

Reference: Nigel Rees, Sayings of the Century, page 253.

Diplomacy dictated that they had to deny what Blind Freddie knows to be true.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRDA_(slang)

sisemen 13th Mar 2012 02:22


voters won't buy it
Ah...that obviously explains why the government has slipped in the polls again. :eek:

About the only saving grace for Gillard is that she is now 2 points clear of Abbott as PM. Two points!!! Any sitting PM with any kind of mandate from the public should be well clear of that.

Worrals in the wilds 13th Mar 2012 03:30

On the subject of polls, with the upcoming Qld election Sportsbet and Centrebet are at odds (pun intended :\) with the official polls on Campbell's chances in Ashgrove. The bookies tip him to win; the polls tip that he'll lose. A lot of people are quite interested to see which turns out to be more accurate. Both are tipping that the ALP will lose government with a large swing to the LNP, so the question of who will lead is the hot lunchroom topic at the moment.

I had lunch with a friend from the Ashgrove electorate and they just want it all to stop. :{:{:{ She had five people banging on her door the previous day and is seriously thinking about installing a rottweiler for the remainder of the campaign.

Worrals, I don't often disagree with your comments, but in this case, I must.
Look, you could be right. I haven't followed it all word for word. The point I was trying to make is that unless the Libyans are secretly parachuting teams of crack-trained vandals into Australian cemeteries there's a lot of graveyard vandalism being done by dinky di Aussies. A year or so digging graves by hand would do them all the world of good. :mad:

RJM 13th Mar 2012 04:43


About the only saving grace for Gillard is that she is now 2 points clear of Abbott as PM
It's amazing how quickly people adjust to new situations, often by recalibrating the 'Normal' setting.

I've just been to a meeting where someone said that Gillard was 'doing quite well in the polls at the moment'. Meaning of course that her standing in most people's opinion had moved from abysmal to regrettable.


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