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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Worrals in the wilds 24th Sep 2012 09:03

Fair enough, I didn't realize that those were the conditions re the Snowy River Scheme. There is still the question of skills though, particularly when so many people with existing qualifications want to migrate here.

Not to mention the lack of big infrastructure projects these days. :sad:
Also, the nature of the construction industry has changed; you don't need the sheer manpower numbers they used in the mid twentieth century. By way of example... Many of the Lamington NP tracks were constructed by gangs of returned war veterans using shovels and wheel barrows. These days tracks are constructed by three or four guys with specialist machinery. There is no need for teams of enthusiastic guys with shovels.

Captain Sand Dune 24th Sep 2012 09:46

Meanwhile the cost of Naru, "resuce services" for the constant stream of country shoppers, welfare for them etc,etc has now blown out to over $4.5 billion over forward estimates.

You could house a hell of a lot of Australians for $4.5 billion.
True, but wasting heaps of money on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS makes Juliar look good in front of the UN.

parabellum 24th Sep 2012 11:27

As specious arguments go, this one takes the biscuit;

"Australia is large enough to welcome all immigrants, no matter what their
mode of transport is."
At the moment, having recently emerged from a thirteen year drought, Australia can just about sustain a population of 22 to 25 million. The average depth of top soil in the inhabitable parts is no more than one foot but often less than six inches. When in a state of drought essential basic food has to be imported. Kevin Rudd's idea of fifty million population is laughable and demonstrates just how little the town dwelling latte classes know about sustainable population versus agriculture and water supply.

Owen, it may surprise you to know just how many of us have carried arms on behalf of our country and some times had to use them too.

500N 24th Sep 2012 12:01

"Where would you bring the water from?"

Well, I have actually looked at this before !

I would like to bring water from the Northern Territory but that may be a bit hard.

The Bradfield scheme is a good place to start. The only problem I see with it is any excess water ends up in Lake Eyre. Not necessarily the best place to put excess water as it really ends up as dead water. (See River No 53 on the map below).

I would maybe try to divert the water to the Warrego river (No 21 on map).

With modern machinery it would be easier to divert more rivers to flow the other way.

I would also look between Newcastle in NSW (Hunter valley) north
to the NSW / Qld border which receives very high rainfall, the rivers
are not that long (See rivers 13, 14 and 15 on Map), the Great dividing range there is not that high (and so that that hard to push water over the top) and on the other side of the range the start of the rivers flowing inland are already there to get it right across the continent, through the Murray Darling basin food bowl to Adelaide.

Major Australian Rivers

500N 24th Sep 2012 12:04


The great Ocean Road was also built by returned war vets as were other places.

But the Snowy scheme was a coming together of a whole load of factors that are unlikely to be repeated.


CoodaShooda 24th Sep 2012 12:55

The Bradfield scheme doesn't help WA, particularly Perth through to Esperance. :E

As for population levels, I thought the Greens had decided that only 7 million people was the sustainable level for all of Oz. Or does that apply only after they have implemented their reform agenda?

Buster, you reckon that desal plant will rust out before its brought on-line?

Buster Hyman 24th Sep 2012 13:03

Oh, it won't rust out Cooda. We'll bet getting water from it because we are locked into a contract, courtesy of the ALP, to pay $132 million per annum whether we use it or not!

But enough of that....Jobe Watson just won the Brownlow!!!! Go BOMBERS!!!!


500N 24th Sep 2012 13:22


"The Bradfield scheme doesn't help WA, particularly Perth through to Esperance. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif"

Nothing is going to help Perth / WA with their water problems
except to capture all the rain that falls in the hills and down south.

I think Desal might be the best option.

A worthy winner :ok:

hellsbrink 24th Sep 2012 16:29

Think you mean 81% Hellsbrink.
Nope, I see plenty things that say that the size of the actual desert areas are only 18% of the mainland, but obviously there are massive chunks that are "semi-arid" which means that they are not truly "desert" but not far off. Still uninhabitable though.

Add in what's left of the rain forests and the mountains (hard to build on something that goes upwards almost vertically) and you're left with, I think, around 10% of the landmass is actually habitable. And, within that area, there would be issues with denser population as you would need to take over farmland, you would need to find a hell of a lot more water, you would need to build more power stations, etc, etc, etc.

So, even with a population density of 28 per km≤ in the habitable area, that still ain't a lot of room without paving over farmland and finding water that ain't there. So where does owen propose finding the resources and land for unlimited immigration without screwing the country over? Let's face it, ain't as if it's easy to get a power cable across the sea to import leccy and I don't think it's feasible to import water......

owen meaney 24th Sep 2012 20:00

I don't think it's feasible to import water.....
Maybe, maybe not, but the previous QLD government thought it was feasible.

Parabellum, Australia has never had to import food for need, we export.
I am more in agreement with D Smith than K Rudd about sustainable population.
Not with standing, we need immigration.
The point I was making wasn't that those here haven't carried a rifle, but those in the community want the military to destroy boats with humans on them, without thinking through the facts. But thats the advantage of being a Bogan, The boganís ability to rapidly determine the true nature of things spares it from the need to learn the context, alternatives, or ramifications of any area of knowledge it turns its attention to.

500N 24th Sep 2012 20:02

Which part of Australia do you live in ? Are you a Pilot ? (I notice you made ref to Cairns for GA flying).

Have you flown over FNQ, Westrn Qld channel country ? Tell me where you could put a million people out there to live ?

Have you ever lived or visited farms or country towns and seen how much
is spent in getting normal day to day living things to these places. All that needs huge infrastructure (roads) and all associated on costs.

"Australia has never had to import food for need, we export."

Absolute BS. Go to Safeway, Coles and Aldi and see what's imported
and what's not. I'm not saying we NEED to import but we do import food.

Part of that is like the strawberries and Oranges, too many produced here and too expensive to pick so they let them rot "strawberries are being left to rot to the ground in southern Queensland in the face of plummeting retail prices."
Oranges too expensive to pick and juice so they import Orange Juice from Brazil for 2 - 3 cents a litre and train it up to Mildura to bottle !!! (That's no joke).

We need immigration, yes, but the right sort of immigration.
Suggest you go visit where some of these Immigrants have set up
- Shepparton would be a good start. We don't have the manual obs here like
we used to, we need more higher level qualified people to create more jobs.

Re Bogans, maybe because the Gov't has done such a bad job of managing the Illegal Immigrant situation.

Andu 25th Sep 2012 01:13

There is a God after all... Julia Jillard - (not a typo, but the pronunciation given by the American who announced her absence and ROBERT Carr as her replacement as speaker) - was taken ill in New York,this saving the denizens of the UN from her planned "charm offensive".

Am I the only one who choked on the very idea of the words "charm" and "Julia Gillard/Jillard" appearing in the same sentence? I suppose the day was saved by including "offensive" in the statement.

500N 25th Sep 2012 01:15

Labor strategy seems to be working - let Abbott hang himself
and make Labor look good !

Abbott put his foot in his mouth once too often.

I think he needs to know that sometimes saying less is saying more.


Andu 25th Sep 2012 01:42

Going back a few posts:

The Bradfield scheme is a good place to start. The only problem I see with it is any excess water ends up in Lake Eyre. Not necessarily the best place to put excess water as it really ends up as dead water.
Can't agree. Water in Lake Erye, even water made "dead" by the salt beds, generates rain, (and quite a lot of rain), changing the whole climate of the area. (Look at the place now for an example.)

500N 25th Sep 2012 02:08


Yes and No. It needs to be kept at a high level to have the effect you are talking about and that is hard to do as you need one hell of a lot of water to achieve it
and I don't think you could push that much down the creeks except with exceptional weather events.

Buster Hyman 25th Sep 2012 02:59

500N. Armed with my Degree in Climatology, obtained online at degrees-r-us, I have always thought that maintaining the water levels in Lake Eyre was key to turning Western NSW into a proper food bowl. Run a pipeline from Pt. Augusta up to the Lake & she's apples. It's a salt plain so seawater should do the trick! :ok:

Abbott put his foot in his mouth once too often.
He needs to realise that he doesn't need to make things easy for the ALP. They dish out plenty of stuff about him, but gaffe's only add credence to the stories.

Worrals in the wilds 25th Sep 2012 03:06

On a lighter note...I just wish I'd thought of it.

500N 25th Sep 2012 03:30


Interesting thought "Run a pipeline from Pt. Augusta up to the Lake & she's apples. It's a salt plain so seawater should do the trick! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif"

Had never looked at that as an option. Will investigate further but any water inland will help but it needs to be maintained. Remember, the whole area was an inland sea originally !!!

One thing to realise re inland NSW rain, the HEAVY rain comes from the north, the cold fronts that pass from WA, through SA to Vic generally only provide rain or showers for a day or so and then pass.

I hhave and still hunt up that way and often had to put up with fronts and as the farmer always said, if it comes from the north, suggest you bug out and go home early but if it's from the west, just wait it out as the next day will be damp but OK to hunt. Advice that never failed me !

Clare Prop 25th Sep 2012 04:28

I think humans have done more than enough damage to the environment and water courses already. If you need desal, you have gone beyond sustainable or have unacceptable levels of waste of potable water ... and we have desal in WA.

When people start talking about turning rivers around and pumping sewage into the ground I worry. THere are no people of C.Y. O'Connor's genius any more, still just greedy corporations, bought and paid for press and stupid governments, the same things that drove him to suicide.

AS for the rural areas if Labor hadn't got greedy and introduced FBT then the FIFO culture probably wouldn't have developed as much as it has and mining towns might actually have a permanent population and affordable housing.

BTW a friend of mine's dad was a doctor in Eastern Europe and HE had to do two years on the snowy scheme before he could requalify as a doctor here. In those days refugees were grateful to have food and shelter and a future in a safe place.

Meanwhile today my blood ran cold when I saw a headline "Bob Carr stands in for PM", thinking that that particular unelected fossil was now in charge of our country rather than just playing token Aussie in an overseas gabfest. :eek: be cause she has a tummy ache. Maybe someone has poisoned her.

Andu 25th Sep 2012 06:27

If you can believe the polls, Clare P, the list of suspects would be in the multi-millions.

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