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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

boofta 23rd Sep 2012 21:22

So the red headed git is now in NYC pleading for our admission as a non
permanent member of the security council.
Why are we spending $40m on another ego trip for our pollies and so
called public servants, get the books balanced first you morons.
If she ever uses the term OUR CHILDREN again I swear I will vote
green forever. God save us from the lefty,trendy,pinko,socialist,lesbian
bed wetting lawyers destroying our beautiful country.

500N 23rd Sep 2012 21:42

Cooda

You are spot on with this
"Except, you missed the bit about the feds being keen to sign up to any international convention they can find; because they convert state responsibilities to international responsibilities and thus shift power from the states to the feds under the Constitution."


For some reason, Australia seems to want to sign every damn UN charter
without thinking it through. In addition, we seem to want to push things
way above our weight as though we need to prove ourselves on the world stage.

It's almost like we (as in Australia) have a guilty conscience for past bad deeds and we need to be seen to be doing something to pay for it.
.

owen meaney 23rd Sep 2012 22:13

I am appalled at the people posting on this thread and their lack of empathy for their fellow humans.
Australia is large enough to welcome all immigrants, no matter what their mode of transport is.

Buster Hyman 23rd Sep 2012 22:24

A huge land mass does not equate to instant housing & affordable welfare owen. You have over simplified the issue in order to accuse posters of a lack of empathy.

If you care to read the thread, you might notice that the issues that are being discussed refer to a lack of border protection, refugee policy, people smuggling, and queue jumping. Australia is NOT a closed shop to refugees & I for one am not advocating such.

Alternatively, you could be all for leaving people in refugee camps located across the globe and only want those refugees that can afford inordinate amounts of money to buy a seat on a 'doomed' Indonesian fishing boat. If that's your view, then God help us all.

Worrals in the wilds 23rd Sep 2012 22:38


Changing tack a bit, I choked on my weeties yesterday when reading that Gillards chief of staff had described the pubic service as being out of touch with no real world experience. This in response to a call to wind back the number of minders and beef up public service influence.
This will be phase 1 of Operation Demonise the Public Service, which the new State conservative governments have also been running with some great own goal successes. (At least Newman has learned that kicking ambos and firies is about as popular with the public as kicking puppies, and has started to fake some empathy).

The federal government has already cut over four thousand jobs from the APS and wants to get rid of more. This has brought on a punch up between them and the CPSU (federal public service union) which is only going to intensify. The CPSU has never been particularly ALP orientated and they are a large union with a big advertising budget. If they decide to get mouthy they can add to Julia and Co's worries, of which there are already many :E. Being attacked by unions is massively embarassing for Labor governments and tends to alienate voters.

The solution from an ever average government? Get the ministerial flunkies to start spitting venom about how public servants are lazy, public servants are out of touch, blah blah blah. :ugh::ugh: As you say, pot; kettle but these people don't see it that way; they actually think they're important. :eek:

The UK government has been singing from the same hymn sheet, and the aim is to make the public forget that 1. public servants are real people, 2. public servants keep a lot of services going including border protection, and 3. if the government didn't waste so much money on peripheral, trendy crap there would be plenty of money in the tin to pay them all and have a fully staffed, efficient public service.

Expect to hear more of it in the near future.

P.S. agree with Buster. :ok:

Captain Sand Dune 23rd Sep 2012 22:41

Id like to propose a Private Sponsorship for Immigrants bill. This bill would provide for those persons who chose to attempt to enter Australia via other than the methods approved by the Australian government.
In essence this bill will approve the entry of an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT into Australia provided they are sponsored by an Australian citizen. That sponsor would be responsible for housing, feeding and clothing said ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Additionally they would undertake to provide assistance until said ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT gained citizenship and permanent employment.

I can see the hoards of trendy Lefties queuing up now in order to put their money where their mouths are.





I also believe the Earth is flat....................:hmm:

owen meaney 23rd Sep 2012 23:04

Hello Buster
That is what is called a specious argument. True but not relevant to what I wrote.
Your lack of empathy for a man that has committed himself to a perilous journey across open ocean in a crappy boat is appalling.
BTW, there are more "queue jumpers" entering by aircraft than by boat.

allan907 23rd Sep 2012 23:15

We know who the "queue jumpers" are when they arrive by air - they have a passport with them.

Many of the Iranians that are coming by boat I don't have too much of problem with but, as Buster says, it's more to do with the ineffectual border controls and the political will to deal adequately with the problem.

As a 'new' reader you aren't one of the resurrected dearly departed are you? Just askin'. :hmm:

prospector 23rd Sep 2012 23:20

500N,

You mean something like this white apologist article??


It's almost like we (as in Australia) have a guilty conscience for past bad deeds and we need to be seen to be doing something to pay for it
.


Each white New Zealander is born with this little package of special privileges. Our entire society is geared towards us. We are the colonial imperialists.

We think that since, under the law, everyone is equal, then everyone is equal. In a capitalist society that values hard work and effort, the fact that people are poor or uneducated must be simply down to a lack of determination. It couldn't possibly be something as backwards as racism holding them back. Or could it?

Stuff Nation: Racism and New Zealand | Stuff.co.nz

Buster Hyman 23rd Sep 2012 23:36


That is what is called a specious argument.
Thanks for providing an example immediately afterwards. Where exactly did I show a lack of empathy? I mentioned;

Border protection: where we maintain our sovereignty. Many boats wandering ashore is poor border protection.
Refugee Policy: Clear policy would send the word out about the right way to arrive here seeking refugee status.
People smuggling: An abhorrent trade, tantamount to the slave trade but comes into its own when the above two points are lacking.
Queue jumping: How many people linger in shocking refugee camps around the world? How many of those could we take directly from the camps if it weren't for the fact that the above three points have overstressed our facilities?

So where, exactly, have I shown a lack of empathy. Your friend in the boat may have had enough of the camps & somehow managed to scrape the necessary funds together but whilst he may have landed here successfully, he has arrived at the expense of others. Again, your oversimplification of the issues shrouds the real costs to other refugees & upon the entire system.

500N 23rd Sep 2012 23:55

Owen

Then you would not like my "gunboat" diplomacy
which involves using more of the assets on the boats
than are currently being used.

Because I can assure you that after the first few, they will not try
jumping in some tin can leaky boat as they would have slightly
more than water leakage to worry about.

owen meaney 24th Sep 2012 00:01


Then you would not like my "gunboat" diplomacy

This is not an option, anyhoo was talked about on John Law's program way back when the terrible vietnamese were arriving uninvited.

500N 24th Sep 2012 00:05

Not an option ?

We were only one or two steps away with John Howard's solution
when he sent in armed SF troops.

Their are plenty of people out there in civvy street who think a few sinkings
and whole boats disappearing would send the right message.

Captain Sand Dune 24th Sep 2012 00:18


Their are plenty of people out there in civvy street who think a few sinkings
and whole boats disappearing would send the right message.
And not just in "civvy street' either..............

owen meaney 24th Sep 2012 00:34


Their are plenty of people out there in civvy street who think a few sinkings
and whole boats disappearing would send the right message.
Typical, those that have never carried a rifle want those that do to kill random strangers on a boat

500N 24th Sep 2012 00:42

No, those that want to send a message as John Howard did,
regardless of how it gets done.

Yes, I doubt some have thought it through as to the consequences
of what they agree with but so be it.

It doesn't matter how the message is sent, it needs to be sent and
not how Joolia and the current Gov't are sending it which is with
a taxi service, a bunch of flowers, a bag full of cash on arrival and
free luxury bed and board.

Their are Aussies who don't have a 10th of what the
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS have.

Ovation 24th Sep 2012 02:08


BTW, there are more "queue jumpers" entering by aircraft than by boat.
Nice try Owen, but to arrive by aircraft require production of a VISA at the point on embarkation, otherwise ground staff are required REFUSE boarding. Airlines can be fined for allowing passengers to arrive without valid documents.

There is a huge difference between VISITORS who OVERSTAY, and ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who jump the queue and claim asylum.

SO, to get said VISA, you need to have a valid PASSPORT and apply for said VISA through an Australian Embassy or Consulate.

Here is the form: VISA

This is to ensure that as far as is humanly possible:

The Passport is a genuine document.
The Applicant is actually who they say they are.
The Applicant's personal details are on file including biometrics.
The Applicant is easily identified.
The Applicant has a job and funds to support the visit.
The Applicant if NOT GENUINE, would be discouraged from applying.

AND, when they do arrive, there is NO WAY they'll get past Immigration without a valid travel document. If they cannot produce it, the passenger is held over and the Airline is required to return them to the port of origin.

The Illegal Immigrants however, will have the financial resources and a passport to get to Indonesia and Malaysia (or have bribed Immigration Officials), but will know full well that Australia will deny them entry on arrival, which is why they try to come through the back door, and DELIBERATELY destroy their Passport and identity papers to frustrate the process.

owen meaney 24th Sep 2012 02:13


The Illegal Immigrants however, will have the financial resources and a passport to get to Indonesia and Malaysia (or have bribed Immigration Officials), but will know full well that Australia will deny them entry on arrival, which is why they try to come through the back door, and DELIBERATELY destroy their Passport and identity papers to frustrate the process.
Mmmmmm, you need to stop following Andrew Bolt's blog and check the reality.

500N 24th Sep 2012 02:19

Owen

Even if they didn't have a Passport, they had the money to travel to Malaysia / Indonesia and they had the money to pay for a People smuggler.

Captain Sand Dune 24th Sep 2012 02:22

Good to see the ALP spin merchants back to liven things up.:}


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