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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

allan907 4th Sep 2012 12:22

When you rob Peter to pay Paul you can always be assured of the unstinting support of Paul.

Old saying.

500N 4th Sep 2012 14:24

Yes, OK, blame it on me.

20 years ago, I didn't think she would end up being PM !!!


Andu
I wouldn't know but it seems strange if it was true as Hoppers Crossing is not that way inclined and I can think of a lot of other places in Melbourne (Doveton in Dandenong being one) that I am sure would be higher.

.

allan907 4th Sep 2012 15:32

And in news tonight.......

1. The problem of Australians having to go within wading distance of the Indon beach to do the "rescues" that the Indons seem incapable of has now been solved. Yes. We're going to give the Indons millions and millions of dollars to upgrade their SAR services.

2. Fearful that the likes of you and I are saying nasty things about Juliar Gizzard and her motley crew (and not forgetting Larry Pickering) Rocks On Roxon and Artful Albanese have announced a system of capturing and storing all, yes all, email, phone calls etc etc for 2 years in secret government vaults in case they want to prosecute you for speaking your mind.

Government? What government? :ugh: :yuk:

500N 4th Sep 2012 19:53

Cooda
Excellent article in the Age today re Aboriginies by Marcia Langton
called A case for change. "Marcia Langton is a fighter for indigenous Australians, but she thinks they have to step up too."

Serves it up to both sides - Aboriginies and Whites.

"Our children are being funnelled over into idiot land by teachers afraid to make a mistake."

Seems to be the mantra now for all schools.

The problem with schools as I learn't yesterday !
I heard from my GF's kid yesterday when I asked him how school was.
Crap - we had 2 classes of PE but because our PE teacher was away we had to sit in a class room for 2 x 40 minute period's".

Me "Aren't you allowed to go outside and kick a ball or play basketball ?"

Him "No, we get detention if we do that outside of PE classes. We, as the leaders of the school are supposed to use our initiative but when we do we get punished".

Me "So you are not allowed to play with balls at school at all ?"

Him "No"


And this is a kit, one of three who spends 16/7 on a computer if not at school !!!

The Youth of today !!!

parabellum 4th Sep 2012 21:32

An article in yesterdays Australian said that the average Australian might get as much as $20,000 spent on them in the form of welfare etc. but the average for indigenous people was $46,000.

500N 4th Sep 2012 21:42

That bastion of good reporting, the NT news today.

"Indigenous spending tops $4b"
THE figures on government spending on indigenous people in the NT have been released.
Total government expenditure in 2010-2011 was $4.7 billion or 54 per cent of total government expenditure.
The 2012 indigenous expenditure report's stated aim is to provide cost of services Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people by the federal, state and territory governments. This is the second year it has been released.
Federal Government spending accounted for $2.2 billion of the spending or 47 per cent of the $4.7 billion.
The estimated spending per head of population was $67,761 for indigenous people compared to $24,822 for non indigenous people.

Andu 4th Sep 2012 22:18

On this morning's news: Australian and Indonesian authorities conferring on Indonesia allowing Australian military aircraft to enter Indonesian airspace to search for ships in distress. Australia to give Indonesia ANOTHER $4.6 million to upgrade their SAR system.

Oh, and on AM, some prat of an ABC reporter taking Stephen Smith to task about the RAN's handing the last lot back to the Indonesians - and Smith ducking responsibility and saying the decision was made by the captain of HMAS Maitland.

I suspect that said captain is quite probably now in some bottom-dwelling compensation lawyer's crosshairs, about to be sued for trampling the human rights of the poor refugees who'll have to fork out another 5 to 10 grand to the people smugglers before they reach their 'rightful' destination.

500N 4th Sep 2012 22:22

"and Smith ducking responsibility and saying the decision was made by the captain of HMAS Maitland."

You reckon ?

I stand to be corrected but I would say when it comes to A/S
then the Capt couldn't even fart without permission from HQ
and certainly not handing them back. Just my HO.

Anyone want to chime in ?


"Australia to give Indonesia ANOTHER $4.6 million to upgrade their SAR system."

How about we take that 4.6 million, buy a few ships and train a few crews,
then they have NO excuse.

Andu 4th Sep 2012 22:42

I have to agree with your comment about micromanagement of all things operational from Russell Hill/Canberra, 500N. It was pretty bad in my day, (some time ago now, before the instant comms. we have today) with ****** blunties taking hum-drum no-issues that could - and should - have been handled by the orderly room corporal to the One Star on the base for his OK (so they'd be seen by said One Star to be doing something).

It's even worse when the pollies become involved. They'll all like Rudd to some degree - they can't bear to delegate. So I'd say Smith is lying in his teeth (which I thought I was saying in my earlier post - I may not have made my feelings clear). He's duckshoved a decision that a patrol boat captain would never be allowed to make without some clear direction from Canberra, thus reinforcing the lower than a lizard's arse opinion I've had of Smith ever since his gross mishandling of the ADFA bonking episode.

Speaking of that past 'issue', is the female cadet involved still on course? And more to the point, is the male still sharing the same classroom with her?

500N 4th Sep 2012 22:52

Andu

Never served OS or in an HQ but I clearly remember doing my Infantry Officers course at Singleton and was run by a Major who had deployed to Somalia with 1 RAR. So the Dec 1992.

Anyway, everything set up, HQ, Coy's etc. Patrols sent out, Cpl in command.

Anyway, message comes over the net, "Contact, wait out".

He said it was unbelievable, some of the civilians notified Canberra and then
calls were being made to HQ to find out what was going on, if anyone was injured or killed etc. This went on for a while but I gather that the CO eventually told everyone to bugger off and let the Pl's, Sect Cmd's do their job and if they wanted help, they would ask for it.

If they were micromanaging things back then, imagine what it is like now ?

I would have loved to have been there when they told the Civvies that a Sect Cmd Cpl had OK'd the use of a 66mm rocket to blow a house up where 3 people were and who had fired on the patrol (instead of assaulting it directly !

Result when they stormed in was 3 very dazed and disorientated people captured !
.

allan907 5th Sep 2012 01:39


On this morning's news
See post #2506

But, for me, the most worrying thing is the other matter mentioned in that post - monitoring and storage of personal electronic communications.

The whole of Australia should be jumping up and down about that one.

Buster Hyman 5th Sep 2012 03:00


The whole of Australia should be jumping up and down about that one.
They'd be marching in the streets if a Liberal Govt tried it! :rolleyes:

Captain Sand Dune 5th Sep 2012 08:58


I see Quinten Brice - in tears - is currently visiting refugee camps in Jordan and dishing out another BORROWED $20 million dollars (and you can guarantee, making all sorts of promises about Australia resettling 'n' thousand Syrian refugees).
I thought she was the GG, not the Foreign Minister. Don't her GG duties keep her busy enough?
Wonder if she has shed tears for the five dead Aussie soldiers?
Fcuking embarrasement!:mad:

Worrals in the wilds 5th Sep 2012 10:57


2. Fearful that the likes of you and I are saying nasty things about Juliar Gizzard and her motley crew (and not forgetting Larry Pickering) Rocks On Roxon and Artful Albanese have announced a system of capturing and storing all, yes all, email, phone calls etc etc for 2 years in secret government vaults in case they want to prosecute you for speaking your mind.
Storing everything nasty that's been said about the current government? It better be a BIG vault. Even Google would have to dig another bunker to store all that data. :E Having had some experience with government computer systems I wouldn't be too worried; after trying to log on to an APS computer in Brisbane and leaving it for five hours while it chugged along (out of interest) I was told by IT 'support' 'Of course, it's got to log in to Canberra.' I replied 'I can fly to Canberra, take a taxi to HQ, log on, catch another taxi and fly back in that time. Would that be better?'
Another day, another Christmas card list black ban...:ouch:

Don't forget the APS job cuts, either. 4000+ have gone and the recent word from the border agencies is We're the Flockawi. Last one out turn off the lights. Any resulting crime spikes can be safely blamed on the nasty conservative state governments and their better publisized job cuts. The narcotics, cash, weapons and other sundry tools of the criminal trade frequently cross the federal borders and get used domestically, but by the time you hear about them on the news they're safely a state policing problem. They're already here by then.

Tip top Stalinist surveillance requires tip top Stalinist secret squirrel staffing levels, not three men and a dog (and the dog's had its hours cut :uhoh::}). These guys aren't tip top Stalinists, whatever their motivational posters say, and if they can't even provide enough public servants to man the borders properly I'm all agog to find out how they're going to find my secret Joh For PM propaganda stash. :8

The government is happy to be teary about the plight of the poor 'refugees' languishing in detention but they shy away from the question of whether DIAC staffing is sufficient to process these people. Assessing an arriving person's status requires staff and resources, not blubby tears from the GG at a token refugee camp presser. Tears cost nothing. Words cost nothing. Analysts, officers and resources? :eek::eek::eek: Here, have some more tears, words, and another talkfest if we start looking really incompetent. Much cheaper. :yuk:

Anyway, with respect to the ITS stuff they're probably just trying to nail Kevvy (aka The Incredible Leaking Colander) and find out who Richo's been talking to lately.:}

P.S. Up here Roxon is 'fondly' known as Bi-Polar Nicola. Hadn't heard the Rocks On one. :8

allan907 5th Sep 2012 11:26

Now I may have got this completely wrong but I thought that the main aim of the Carbon Tax (:yuk:) was to reduce Australia's emissions. The effect was supposed to be two-fold; tax the heavy polluting industries in order for them to have incentive to reduce emissions and secondly to use that tax in order to buy out really heavy polluting industries (read power stations - particularly brown coal ones) so that there is a real and immediate effect on emission reduction.

Well, guess what (in the words of he who deemed it to be the moral imperative of the generation), Gizzard has back-tracked again and will not now buy out those power stations. They will be there "for at least a decade" she says.

So, I and the rest of Australia, can ask again....what was the Carbon Tax for then? Answer = to support general revenue and not make Wayne Goose look too much like a goose with his economic management and to pay for the vote buying projects recently announced.

PS Milne was definitely not happy that she'd been blind-sided and effectively rolled. But, if you must lie down with dogs then expect fleas.

CHAIRMAN 5th Sep 2012 13:34

One of the few promises Gillard kept is her pact with the watermelons to introduce the Carbon Tax - didn't give a rats about her promise to the people prior to the hung election.

Now that the deal has been done, and the melons satisfied, realisation of the voter backlash has set in, and now there is nothing to lose (maybe thats why Bob left) - Gillard has set the melons adrift, and is madly scrambling to distance her govt from them and buy as much support from the electorate as possible (using the carbon tax money) to salvage someting for the next election.

Gillard and this government of cronies is all about winning the next, and any election, at ANY cost.

What really annoys me is that she seems to think the voters have the same intellect as Combet - and speaks to us accordingly.

We'll all be rooned if this farce keeps up too much longer.

allan907 5th Sep 2012 14:47

Having just watched Milne's performance on Lateline it may be within the bounds of possibility that the Greens are so pissed off with their ALP partner that they may well try to do 'em down.

With a bit of luck we might still get an early election.

CoodaShooda 5th Sep 2012 21:33

Sadly. Allan, while they may spout tears of indignation in front of the camera, they will not kick the ladder away while they are standing on it.

500N 5th Sep 2012 21:49

"and Smith ducking responsibility and saying the decision was made by the captain of HMAS Maitland."

I saw ANOTHER explanation last night on TV by a Gov't minister,
all to do with they had been rescued from the water etc etc etc.

They should get the story straight before opening their mouth.
.

Andu 5th Sep 2012 22:14


With a bit of luck we might still get an early election.
I know I'm not the first one to say it, but I'm really concerned that the current mob are so intent on holding power that they'll fudge the books on election day - i.e., the dead will rise in large numbers in certain electorates and vote.

The question is, will people believe any such result, and if not, how will the general population react to such a result? With most posters on sites like this one being like-minded, we get a perhaps false impression that everyone is fed up with Gillard and her antics, but if she's still pulling 30% of the primary vote, there are, quite literally, still millions of rusted-on Labor voters out there. (Gravy and train come to mind.)

I watched (very briefly) a report on the US Democrat Convention yesterday and was reminded of these rusted-on Labor voters when I saw people of black ethnicity interviewed who were passionate in the extreme in their adoration of Obama. Even if things weren't right or better "yet" under Obama, they passionately believed he'd get it right eventually. I couldn't help but feel they were also (if tacitly) saying that the income redistribution (what some would call 'handouts') could only be guaranteed to continue under Obama.

Back to my first point, I really do fear that, with no meaningful measures in place in Australia to prevent electoral fraud, multiple voting and the dead rising to vote will figure heavily in certain, carefully selected electorates.


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