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-   -   More Jetstar Trips (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/341981-more-jetstar-trips.html)

Qanchor 5th Sep 2008 03:01

More Jetstar Trips
The press release said, "Jetstar this week began operating direct services from Darwin to Sydney and Ho Chi Minh City".

What has really happened is that due to incredibly poor loads, (on one flight 14 pax), J* has abandoned it's A330 service SYD-TSN, and will now operate an A321 SYD-DRW-TSN.

Is J*Int becoming the proverbial millstone?

Ken Borough 5th Sep 2008 04:34

It's called "spin". Nothing like trying to create something new out of failure.

But...how long before we see Jetstar totally out of the Vietnam market, especially as the Jetstar parent offers non-stop services (code-ahare with Vietnam Airlines) from Sydney and Melbourne to Saigon for not that many more dollars than Jetstar charge for a two-stop narrow body ordeal. The punters will surely vote with their feet.

moa999 5th Sep 2008 04:43

I somewhat disagree.

Given the Jetstar investment in Jetstar Pacific (BL), I think they will try and support the SGN routes to put in feeder traffic, particularly if BL is able to get international routes out of SGN

Jet Jockey 5th Sep 2008 05:48

From management. The reason J* 330s were taken away from SGN and indeed KUL was the aircraft were needed to take over the Q slots left behind by the red rat exiting NRT in Japan. The reasoning Q made a lot of money 10 years ago out of Japan and did not want to lose the slots. May be very hard if not impssible to get back in the future. J* had spare capacity with 320s to hub from Darwin. A descision a lot of staff find hard to swallow since SGN was so popular with consistent big loads. Q management pull most of the J* strings in case you had noy guessed.

captaintunedog777 5th Sep 2008 05:54

Fantastic hey Qanchor. Great news. Now if you are just able to think laterally on this one. Who knows you might be Captain material one day.

Now could it be just possible, the whole intention of the route is not Sydney and everyone then goes on to Vietnam. JUst maybe it's a flight to Darwin with the a/c arriving from Mel, Adelaide, Perth, Cairns and maybe other ports around the same time. There a choice of Singa, Bali, Vietnam, Phlilpines and other S.E destinations is available. The a/c the then goes onto Vietnam. Hence that flight to Vietnam might be 20% from Syd, 20% Adelaide, 20% Cairns and the balance from Darwin.

What do ya reckon??? Maybe they do know what their doing.

But the great Aussie way now is to shoot anyone down prepared to give it a shot.

apacau 5th Sep 2008 06:32

Minor point, but the service is 320 not 321 operated.

As for the reasons for it, I think it's a mix of all the above:
1) Yes, QF wanted the 330s for Japan and there was no spare capacity
2) Yes, there was extra narrowbody capacity available
3) Yes QF pull many of Jetstar's strings (another example is Jetstar not being 'allowed' to operate to Canberra)
4) Yes, the hub strategy is part of it, and finally
5) Sydney is NOT the centre of the universe

Qanchor 5th Sep 2008 07:19

Good thought Capt777, but if the service was such a winner surely it would fill a 330 ex DRW. Sadly not the case.
Putting more J* 330's into Japan, could be a case of putting good money after bad, since the brand has already proved to be a failure there. Maybe there's an underlying reason for doing this. Gee, is that lateral thinking??
On the subject of lateral thinking, thanks for pointing out another missing component from my skillset. When my command opportunity does come up one day, maybe I'll know how not to react to news I don't want to hear.
As an (off thread) addendum, if all was good in J*I, why then at a recent T&C meeting was it mooted that pay cuts may be on the way.

Muff Hunter 5th Sep 2008 07:46

not another qf driver slagging of JQ, you guys are really getting quite boring...

Q(W)anker JQ is here to stay...get over it..it will continue to grow internationally at your expense..

for your info, the loads out of drw to singers have been quite good, and i'd expect the same to HCM and other asian destinations...

"pay cuts on the way" your a dhead mate, go away..

Jetbest 5th Sep 2008 08:01

VVTS Loads
Average load factor on A330 80% each way last 12 months.Freight uplift average 10tons ex Syd and 20 Tons Ex VVTS.Freight often sacraficed due high pax Nos IE MLW limited 180tons.
QF want the A330 for Japan and have taken them of other FLTs as they did originally from Australian ex CNS.Also one aircraft less[5] due to C checks for next 5 months.Do not know why but do know that will run at a loss but not as much as QF.
QF A330 at present are costing 10million more to operate per annum that JQ A330.This is the first time identical aircraft can be compared in the group.This is not subsidised figures as some like to pontificate on this forum but real hard cash.Joyce was not made CEO of the QF group with unreal costs and fake figures.Some reasons for this saving.
1.No load control.Jq pilots do there own.QF have over 200 people in load control.
2.JQ use mostly Flap 1 takeoffs.QF always use flap2.Airbus state that Flap 1 uses up to 600kg less on takeoff and can be higher saving depending on flap retraction timing.
3.JQ tailor flap and Flex.At present JQ are using up to 5degress better flex at same weights and R/W.Each 1degree is $100,000 saving PA.

This list is by no means exhaustive but hopefully will show to some people it is not our EBA of 44 Pages and pay rates that deliver real cost savings to the group and hopefully keep us all employed.

Having read EBA 8 and the comments against it [I doubt it will get up] the QF guys are still on a deal either way which is still the best pay with conditions in the world.I hope the group remains profitable enough to support either EBA!!!.

neville_nobody 5th Sep 2008 08:46

This is not subsidised figures as some like to pontificate on this forum but real hard cash
No not at all :rolleyes:
What value would you put the use of QF lounges at?
What about the QF FF program?
What exactly was the price paid for the A330?
Not to mention the "Qantas Group" slogan that gets pulled out whenever Jetstar stuff up. etc etc

Jetstar is a separate entity when it suits Qantas and it is 'Qantas Group' when it suits Qantas.

Leaves begging the question what is Jetstar really?

Lookleft 5th Sep 2008 09:56

Leaves begging the question what is Jetstar really?

Here to stay whether you like it or not.

moa999 5th Sep 2008 10:52

What value would you put the use of QF lounges at?
What about the QF FF program?
What exactly was the price paid for the A330?
The only JQ passengers who get QF lounges are high-tier QFF passengers. Certainly the First lounge is operated on an outsourced basis (Sofitel) so would assume that JQ pays here.

QF program - has been financially separated from main airline and JQ for over 12 months in lead up to potential float. Arms length transactions where QF and JQ effectively buy points that are accounting classified as deferred revenue for QF Group

The same as what QF mainline would pay for the A330

RAD_ALT_ALIVE 5th Sep 2008 12:01

I really hate to enter the fray with facts, when conjecture obviously is the communique of preference here.

The only reason the widebody flying was cut back (not now referring to the change from KIX/NGO to NRT/KIX), was because of one simple little fact; EBA to EBD are scheduled to rotate through MNL for their 'C' checks (and other stuff). The result is that JQ is now working on the premise that it will be one widebody aircraft short until Feb, 09.

So the bean-counters had to sit and decide which of our destinations to cutback (more than likely, temporarily) until we're back to full strength.

Yields, load factors, costs and ultimately profits were all examined before the final mix of 'reduced' services was decided.

My guess is that the A330 will go back to one, if not both, axed destinations (KUL/SGN) once all puppies are back in the dog house.

Now back to rumour and gossip...

Oh, BTW Qanchor, where in the IATA world is TSN? I'm pretty sure that wherever it is, JQ don't go there - yet.:confused:

What The 5th Sep 2008 12:14

ton son nuet

And yes you do fly there.

Transition Layer 5th Sep 2008 12:58

The only JQ passengers who get QF lounges are high-tier QFF passengers.
Wrong moa999...from the Jetscab website:

All StarClass passengers will have access to the Qantas Club, where one is available at the airport from which they are departing
The continual defensive behaviour from (presumably) Jetscar pilots is getting a bit repetitive. Let's face it, the JQ International model does not work!!! The real numbers will come out once Clifford gets his hand on the books. The 330's should be back in Qantas service making real money on Sydney/Melbourne-Perth and being flown by pilots on first world wages.

dodgybrothers 5th Sep 2008 13:38

whenever jetstar stuffup eh? Methinks qantas is doing a good job of that by themselves.

I thankyou.....

Douglas Mcdonnell 5th Sep 2008 13:55

Transition layer, are you still a closet private school stripey jacket/ straw hat wearing wannabe. Christ, age 27 and nearly 800 posts? Shouldn't you be out chasing girls and or hanging out with your mates instead of randomly slagging off at others?.

Didn't they teach you anything in cadet or should I call it, deep voice school.

Your posts indicate that you could have an undiagnosed syndrome. You should get it checked out!!


mmmbop 5th Sep 2008 21:22

Here to stay whether you like it or not.
One* Domestic - yes.

One* Intl - Hmmmmmm............


Transition Layer 5th Sep 2008 23:24

Douglas McDonnell,

Christ, age 27 and nearly 800 posts? Shouldn't you be out chasing girls and or hanging out with your mates instead of randomly slagging off at others?.
Nearly 800 posts in 7 years, works out at about 1 every 3 or 4 days. Still leaves plenty of time for the activities you mentioned I would have thought.

As for cadet and private school - wrong on both counts buddy. Try again...

Captain Sherm 5th Sep 2008 23:57

Transition Layer.....

You are probably young, and hence...at least from your posts, overly full of pre-conceived ideas. And you will have never had the experience of seeing inflexible management preside over the demise of an airline because they wouldn't re-deploy assets, never tried anything new, were afraid to reverse decisions, couldn't adapt to a changing world, wouldn't meet the competition head on etc etc.

But it seems to me from the outside that the Qantas group.....(which, FYI is not Mainline Pilots plus a lot of little ugly step-brothers and sisters....)....is at least getting a fair chunk of it right. Yet you constantly refer in cruel terms to Jetstar as though it was some deformed malignant growth.

Take a step back and think through this stuff. Read some airline history. Qantas without it's group capabilities (which includes the vast 320, 737, 380 and 787 orders ahead, QantasLink, JQ and all the associated group capabilities....would be a very rapidly dying museum flight of big fuel hungry jets carrying an ever diminishing number of beautifully preserved High Yield Passengers.

When and if you get your jet command...you will see as though with newly opened eyes, that the world is a big place, full of airlines and strategies you never heard of before. Under the new CEO, Qantas as a group has the best chance it could ever have of a good future. He won't be perfect, few of us are. But he'll give it his best shot. Be thankful he's doing that.

And finally....hatred has no place in a pilot's lexicon, in or out of the cockpit. Life is short and God meant it to be sweet. If to get that you need to leave flying and find a world where you are happy....I wish you well on that journey. Just don't pollute this world, the one many of us love....with venom and spleen.

Safe flying

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