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The downfall of Globalisation or "How I learned to live with less stuff"

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The downfall of Globalisation or "How I learned to live with less stuff"

Old 3rd Aug 2022, 19:04
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The downfall of Globalisation or "How I learned to live with less stuff"

I'm not a fan of Globalisation. This opinion is being `encouraged` shall we say with the goings on around the globe at the moment. But also my own opinion as I get older.
I'm not suggesting we totally shut up shop and go it alone but I am in favour of a reduction of buying important things from abroad. Important things such as fuel, some food stuff, electronics, weapons and most importantly infrastructure.
We have made ourselves extremely dependant on countries that do not have our best interests at heart and for what, to line the pockets of rich business persons. Now we are seeing the issues this causes,

At the moment we have problems with fuel and food because of Russia. China appears to be placing food sanctions on Taiwan presumably to bully them into submission after the recent Pelosi visit. Brexit (love or hate it) has also highlighted how fragile
extended supply chains are. We lap up cheap products on ebay and amazon at the detriment to our own manufacturers and suppliers while lining the purses of China who flooded the world with cheap steal killing our industry. Even our supposed allies poach well know brands like Cadburys.

So isn't it about time we brought some of our critical infrastructure back under British control. Invested in manufacturing, Shortened supply lines and invested more in locally produced food and goods. Educated people that having everything now is potentially damaging to our economy and our planet. Prevented countries from flooding our economy with cheap goods.

Or are we doomed to our global fate?
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 19:29
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It rather depends if you feel rich enough to afford it.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 19:51
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But people want cheap goods (cheap not necessarily being rubbish) and whilst I'm sure lots of people would prefer to buy close to home, given the choice between two similar items, then most of them would go for the cheapest.

Especially if one is half the price of the other and even more so in these inflationary times.

They also want food items when they want it, not just during the local growing season.

So we probably are doomed.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 20:04
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No need to stop global trade.
You can still support your local farmers and craftsmen by buying their products. Invest in good quality products that last and can be repaired which is cheaper on the long run.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 21:11
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
No need to stop global trade.
You can still support your local farmers and craftsmen by buying their products. Invest in good quality products that last and can be repaired which is cheaper on the long run.
In a homespun society perhaps.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 21:34
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It's the same dilemma that's been discussed with various airlines and the 'race to the bottom'. We all* say we want more legroom, better service, inflight meals, but when it comes time to book, we all* look at the cheapest fares first.

IMHO, there are certain capabilities, particularly those relating to defense and infrastructure, that should be kept 'at home'. And I'm all for buying local when possible (produce, dairy, etc.)

* OK, maybe not all but a vast, vast majority
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 22:13
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Just try your best to buy Made in *ABC. It is truly cathartic, Life will be far more pleasant without tons of cheap and nasty crap which soon ends up in landfill.

*ABC = Anywhere But China.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 23:37
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Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
I'm not a fan of Globalisation. This opinion is being `encouraged` shall we say with the goings on around the globe at the moment. But also my own opinion as I get older.
I'm not suggesting we totally shut up shop and go it alone but I am in favour of a reduction of buying important things from abroad. Important things such as fuel, some food stuff, electronics, weapons and most importantly infrastructure.
We have made ourselves extremely dependant on countries that do not have our best interests at heart and for what, to line the pockets of rich business persons. Now we are seeing the issues this causes,

At the moment we have problems with fuel and food because of Russia. China appears to be placing food sanctions on Taiwan presumably to bully them into submission after the recent Pelosi visit. Brexit (love or hate it) has also highlighted how fragile
extended supply chains are. We lap up cheap products on ebay and amazon at the detriment to our own manufacturers and suppliers while lining the purses of China who flooded the world with cheap steal killing our industry. Even our supposed allies poach well know brands like Cadburys.

So isn't it about time we brought some of our critical infrastructure back under British control. Invested in manufacturing, Shortened supply lines and invested more in locally produced food and goods. Educated people that having everything now is potentially damaging to our economy and our planet. Prevented countries from flooding our economy with cheap goods.

Or are we doomed to our global fate?
May work for other countries, but in the UK that is infeasible. With an ever increasing population we will need to reduce agriculture and manufacturing even more to create more housing stock.

It is the major pitfall of being a small island nation in a time of increasing life expectancies, therefore increasing populations.

As a country that is going to be increasing squeezed by limited area, maybe we should instead take a page out of the China playbook and foster relationships and business partnerships with other parts of Africa.

On this and many other threads there is a fallacy that the human species can change. Nothing in hundreds of thousand of years has suggested that is a possibility. We are very good at adaptation though. You try to make broad sweeping changes and will be frustrated at the lack of progress. Accept or not, it doesn’t matter that things will change and adapt accordingly over time and it will be done.

The more you try to change the more pushback you will get. Educate and let things run their course and things will evolve in a way that is manageable over time. As most things we are talking about are in scales of decades or centuries so most won’t even notice.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 23:48
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There is a plethora of videos by Peter Zeihan, and you have to spend quite some time to watch them, assimilate what he says in the context of what you see yourself. Whether he is 100% right or wrong is not the issue, he explains what is happening in a way ordinary people understand.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 00:29
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The issue is we (as individuals) want $$$. We spend our hard earned $$$ on products, and generally aim for the cheapest. What we don’t spend we generally put into savings, shares and retirement portfolios, so we want the best performing shares. For a major business there’s no incentive to manufacture locally, in fact they’re be punished by their shareholders for doing so.

The only other avenue is for governments to spend money investing in local manufacturing. Guess what they’ll need to do to achieve that? Increase taxes. Massively. It’d be electoral poison.

So like it or lump it where going to have to learn to get along with each other, as the people of world are too used to each other now to change. Cutting off access to each other doesn’t mean everyone goes back to living in quaint little villages growing vegetables peacefully safely enclosed within their own bubble, it means either a massive degradation of living standards or global war.

I do find it surprising that some of the biggest anti globalisation sentiment comes from pilots, who’s entire industry depends on the freest movement possible of people and goods across the globe.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 00:30
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The challenge is not unique to GB. Here in the great south land the same questions can be asked; the same sad answers will be given.

Some time ago I was talking with the chap who owns the local electrical store in our local town - white goods, TVs and stuff like that. He reflected that almost all of the items in his store were manufactured outside of Australia - most of them in China. Fifty years ago we were self sufficient in those products; we made our household appliances, TVs, cars, trucks, tractors, farm machinery - it's a long list. Most of that capability is long gone now. We are pretty well totally dependent on imports from overseas for almost all of our everyday needs in these items - including most of our basic petroleum based fuels.

Oh yes, we've plenty of high quality coal, uranium and natural gas, but we also have The Greens. All of this can only lead one way, and it won't be pleasant or pretty. If our sea routes were ever to be blocked for only few weeks - months perhaps, we would very soon be back to a basic tribal state; the law of the jungle would return with consequences too horrible to contemplate.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 07:16
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We might need to start opening up those Lancashire cotton mills again as it is no longer possible to buy the raw materials in the UK. Likewise, leather goods, most of the basic materials are produced in the likes of Portugal, Italy and Spain. Even if you try to stay loyal to a good quality UK brand the chances are that most of the labour and raw materials required for production were sourced outside the UK. Not necessarily because they are cheaper but simply because they are not available here.
Sadly, many people in this country have to buy cheap good out of necessity but you only need to look at the cars on the roads to see just how much people are willing to pay for luxury status symbols which go far beyond their basic functionality of getting from A to B. Not everyone wants to buy cheap but thanks to the move from manufacturing to service provision, it is virtually impossible to buy truly British products.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 09:35
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uxb99
You may not be a fan but you have no chance of the UK becoming self sufficient for two reasons. Firstly manufacturing has been in decline all of my adult life there as it was “trade” and people did not want to work actually making things and secondly the volume of population has required importation of food since around 1860.
To demonstrate this think of equipping a house in the UK discounting the actual structure with money no object what would you buy which is UK manufactured and not just branded like say Barbour clothing for example. In our own house we have British HiFi, Meridian and B&W and a Toaster and AGA and Roberts Radio everything else is imported be it carpets, bedding, curtains, and even them I am not 100% sure on the Radio and Toaster ! There is not a chance of going back to your self contained UK bubble despite what the likes of the right wing Tory party say.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 10:36
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
uxb99
You may not be a fan but you have no chance of the UK becoming self sufficient for two reasons. Firstly manufacturing has been in decline all of my adult life there as it was “trade” and people did not want to work actually making things and secondly the volume of population has required importation of food since around 1860.
To demonstrate this think of equipping a house in the UK discounting the actual structure with money no object what would you buy which is UK manufactured and not just branded like say Barbour clothing for example. In our own house we have British HiFi, Meridian and B&W and a Toaster and AGA and Roberts Radio everything else is imported be it carpets, bedding, curtains, and even them I am not 100% sure on the Radio and Toaster ! There is not a chance of going back to your self contained UK bubble despite what the likes of the right wing Tory party say.

Cheers
Mr Mac
__________________________

This makes a lot of sense. We pay for our past mistakes right now. Perhaps we could try and do business with people that we like. Not just anyone !
Replaced an old hi fi with a couple of Marantz separates. USA manufactured but, underneath a "Made in China" sticker.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 10:57
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If you want to become self sufficient as a nation you not only need a reliable local source of raw materials but also the means of turning them into goods. Building and reopening factories are one thing, but where on earth are the necessary labour and skills going to come from?
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 11:54
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
If you want to become self sufficient as a nation you not only need a reliable local source of raw materials but also the means of turning them into goods. Building and reopening factories are one thing, but where on earth are the necessary labour and skills going to come from?
____________________________
We have them all right here at home. Always did and always will.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 12:39
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Can you please tell somecofvthecUK manufacturers that I am working with as they cannot find any and what they find is still not that great due to QA/QC issues we see repeatedly in their products. Incidentally I was told the average age of a steel erector in the UK is now north of 50 so you may have issues even building those factories.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 12:39
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If globalisation has resulted in 50% of semiconductor supply being sourced from an Island that isn't actually recognised as an independent nation by the majority of the planet, and claimed by a nation with which is looked upon as an adversary of the "The West", purely so that vast global, mostly US and Japanese companies, and pursue profit, without much consideration on the consequences then globalisation has already failed.

If globalisation has resulted in most of Europe becoming dependent on gas and oil from a country that "The West" considers an adversary, then globalisation has failed.

If globalisation has resulted in much of UK strategic industries being flogged off to foreign interests, then UK policy has failed, and globalisation the cause of that failure.

Globalisation has been failing for years now, the events of 2022 on a geopolitical scale have proved that globalisation has now comprehensively failed.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 12:48
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Originally Posted by nomorecatering View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4mDQeo9eE

There is a plethora of videos by Peter Zeihan, and you have to spend quite some time to watch them, assimilate what he says in the context of what you see yourself. Whether he is 100% right or wrong is not the issue, he explains what is happening in a way ordinary people understand.
Zeihan predicted Russia's attack on Ukraine in a book written in 2014, giving an estimate of 2022 for the further attack. His estimate was based on the same basics as his concerns on globalization. His position on China is really interesting and seems to be playing out right now. His position and basis have not changed in 8 years.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 12:49
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Originally Posted by Right20deg View Post
____________________________
We have them all right here at home. Always did and always will.
A glib remark that does not bear even passing inspection.

When manufacturing capability is moved offshore the workforce does not sit around waiting for it to come back, it finds other work. We have near full employment in the UK, bringing back all the industries we have lost to overseas would be a substantial undertaking and would mean a lot of extra labour. Then we have the issue of training the workforce, the skills needed will not return with the factories. Remember, some manufacturing has been overseas for more than a generation.

If you want to see the problem in miniature, just look at the difficulties some sectors have had recovering a viable workforce after Covid furlough.
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