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Rail strikes

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Rail strikes

Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:32
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Sack the lot of them. Make them reapply for their old jobs or fill them with cheap labour.

signed, P&O ferries.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:32
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Chris the Robot, you make a great point. I often sit next to 'fresh out of the packet' FOs many of which have a mountain of debt and for no guaranteed job/career.

Well done ASLEF/RMT for doing what is right for your members. Why do so many working people sit and watch their CEOs and senior management cream off mega bonus's whilst insisting the work force should think them selves lucky to have a job? And how can the governor of the B of E insist on wage restraint when he has a rather generous paid package and many extra super perks of the job?

FK10
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:41
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris the Robot View Post
ASLEF are walking out for a day on Greater Anglia and a lot of the commentary seems to be aimed at railway staff in general, rather than just the RMT. Sadly, unless the DfT is prepared to change it's stance that Train Operating Coompanies operating under the old franchise system can't negotiate pay and productivity deals, I can see ASLEF becoming involved in the dispute much more dthan they currently are.
Good to have an insiders view Chris,that would be a bad escalation.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:41
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimtherev View Post
Rail unions have been pushing for re-nationalisation for years. With multiple Train Operating Companies they didn't get much out of strike threats.
Now that many of these TOCs have handed back the keys to the govt a strike looks more promising to the unions.

As an advocate of train travel, I'm sad that it's being priced out of the market. People will find other cheaper ways of travelling... or staying at home. Many are already doing so.
Vast parts of the rail network are nationalised.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:45
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomilk View Post
Oh yeah, I like it, when people say "xx profession makes 30,000 a year, just think what a nurse gets". Maybe both professions should be paid more. Or should pilots be paid hairdressers' wages, after all, hairdressers are on their feet all day while pilots just sit on their arse and look out the window?
Exactly! There seems to be far too much addiction the Murdoch press.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Ultimately strikes are a symptom of the malaise affecting western economies; much bigger than Brexit, Ukraine or post pandemic global supply chain issues

The real problem we have is the falling birth rate changing the ratio between workers and pensioners.
When the welfare state was introduced there were four workers paying one retireeís pension. Itís falling below 2:1 now.

We simply donít have enough workers in the west. We need to raise the birth rate or increase immigration for continued growth, to pay the taxes and to have the wage progression the previous generation had and the strikers want.


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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:50
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst View Post
A little surprised this doesnít already have a post running.

What are peoples thoughts on the current strikes?

Everyone around the country has faced pay issues over the past few years.

I think pay is the red herring in this dispute. The rail network in this country is from the prewar era. Massive modernisation is needed but the unions refuse, as a consequence modernisation may mean job loses.

I think one benefit is that now that the strike has started the government now has the green light into implement some of these now. Especially in track maintenance. The old saying that you can always tell unionised road workers. One is using a shovel, one is holding a clipboard, and three are sitting down drinking coffee.

I know this could be a contentious issue as pilots are a heavily unionised workforce. But in this issue I am talking more public sector unions.

Do you vote tory by any chance?
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 07:54
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Del Prado View Post
Sack the lot of them. Make them reapply for their old jobs or fill them with cheap labour.

signed, P&O ferries.
Yeah, and Easyjet crews are going on strike, sack the lot of them as well, bring in agency workers.
Mr Murdoch told me to say that in his role as head of the UK government.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 08:07
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People who work on the railways are professionals and no less so than those that work in the airline industry.
If professional people feel the need to strike, never done lightly, then others who should feel valued at work, support them.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 09:23
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Quote from Flyhighfirst post - "If the unions allowed for improvements yes there would be job loses, but the remainder could get pay increases.
A fine example of Hilda's "No such thing as society" and the "Pull up the ladder, Jack, I'm alright" mentality ! Makes voting for the Lying Buffoon easier to understand. ... such nice people ...

Last edited by Cornish Jack; 22nd Jun 2022 at 11:05.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 09:47
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Quote from Flyhighfirst post - "If the unions allowed for improvements yes there would be job loses, but the remainder could get pay increases.
A fine example of Hilda's "No such thing as society" and the "Pull up the ladder, Jack, I'm alright" mentality ! Makes voting for the Lying Buffoon easier to understand. ... such nice peiple ...
So you don't want improvements then? Just carry on with outdated and inefficient practices.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:04
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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If you look at the RAIB reports, it is somewhat amazing that so much expertise in things like track maintenance are compromised by staff shortage, some of which is caused by retirement. One example is the Carmont accident, where the civil engineer was having to run two jobs at once.

As for 'sack 'em all', we have seen how well that has worked in the airline industry, with the lay offs caused by Covid leading to a 'summer of discontent' caused by staff laid off leaving the industry.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:18
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
So you don't want improvements then? Just carry on with outdated and inefficient practices.
One can see, from that, just what sort of reasoning process drives the employers' stance. Presumably, you applaud the "outdated and inefficient practices" which they (the employers) use - "Do what we want and accept job losses and we'll reward you with less-than-inflation pay increases".... good thinking Batman !
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:18
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Are RMT members on Defined Benefit Pension schemes?
They used to be on DB, at one sixtieth of salary per year of service.
Are they still?
Are they still on 25 days holiday, (after 5 years) plus 9 days statutory and "privilege"?
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:32
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
Are RMT members on Defined Benefit Pension schemes?
They used to be on DB, at one sixtieth of salary per year of service.
Are they still?
Are they still on 25 days holiday, (after 5 years) plus 9 days statutory and "privilege"?
Are retired Prime Ministers still provided with cars and drivers - at taxpayers' expense ? Are Company bosses given huge bonuses for trading results which are outwith any personal influence ? Are Ministers promoted from Chief Whip to Ministerial post given an increase of £36,000 ? and how much more does the Chief Whip get as against the £86,000 +expenses for the 'lobby fodder' ? We should be told all these things, in order to satisfy our envy/greed/feelings of inadequacy etc. ... delete as appropriate.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:37
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Del Prado View Post
...............We simply don’t have enough workers in the west. We need to raise the birth rate or increase immigration for continued growth, to pay the taxes and to have the wage progression the previous generation had and the strikers want.
We can't keep expanding forever. We have to find a way of making the economy work without continuous expansion. I would like to see CEOs and senior managers have much more restrained pay. They award themselves hundreds of thousands while telling their workers to accept lower pay. Look at what P & O has just done, and look at the state of aviation Ts & Cs. If the pilots union and pilots went on strike to protect safety, I think aviation would be in a much better place.

Since my employer - a certain well known and loved holiday airline went bust - and then Covid struck, I have applied for several train driving jobs and a train signalling job - which as an experienced airline pilot I should have a reasonable aptitude for - but got no interview. Mrs Uplinker could not even get a job at the local supermarket. We had to sell our house and downsize to pay off the mortgage.

We are not in our first flush of youth and there is a lot of ageism around, which is illegal, but companies find ways of getting around that and some still ask for your date of birth on their application forms. I even volunteered for the RNLI lifeboats and the coastguard, but they said I was too old.

So there must be many like us who are perfectly fit, (75Kg and run 5-10km every week), and capable of work, but who are considered too old, (by employers half our age, no doubt). If we are not going to get our state pensions until 67, companies need to urgently revise their recruitment criteria and employ older candidates.

Re £30k not being enough to live on: Why have 4 children? Unless they were quads, triplets or twins, then the parents could have stopped after the first 2. Have all those kids got smart phones, expensive electronic toys and iPads etc? Have both parents got a car?

There was a woman on the radio complaining that she had to use a food bank, which she "luckily heard about on facebook". ..........So she obviously had a smart phone or laptop - what does that cost per month? money better spent on food. When I moved out of my parent's house aged 22 - at a time when the mortgage rates were 15% - for the first few months, I lived on baked potatoes. A 25Kg sack of spuds cost about £2 then, and the cheapest microwave cost £80. I also had an old second-hand fridge that cost me £5.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:48
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Go CJ, another misinterpretation of Thatcher's words.
What she actually said was:

There is no such thing as society. There is a living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 11:59
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Since my employer - a certain well known and loved holiday airline went bust - and then Covid struck, I have applied for several train driving jobs and a train signalling job - which as an experienced airline pilot I should have a reasonable aptitude for - but got no interview. Mrs Uplinker could not even get a job at the local supermarket. We had to sell our house and downsize to pay off the mortgage.

We are not in our first flush of youth and there is a lot of ageism around, which is illegal, but companies find ways of getting around that and some still ask for your date of birth on their application forms. I even volunteered for the RNLI lifeboats and the coastguard, but they said I was too old.
.
The railway is one of the least ageist employers out there, so it won't be your age which is preventing you from progressing unless you are beyond mid-fifties, quite a few of the train drivers I've seen were in their fifties when they started. Most railway companies will insist that you live within an hour of the depot you are applying for, some will allow you to relocate, others are reluctant because they're worried that you will move to a company closer to your original location. If you are willing to relocate, make it clear in the application and detail how you are going to do it, especially when the trainee wage is, in some cases, not particularly high.

Quite a few companies might be worried that you're likely to return to flying, most of the pilots who went for driving roles at my place returned to their former employer, so you'd need to convince any rail companies that this is a one-way move.

Sadly, a lot of different industries are promoting the whole "diversity" mantra, the rail industry appears to be doing so with the encouragement of the government (through the DfT), rank-and-file employees are mainly against it.
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Old 22nd Jun 2022, 12:04
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Are retired Prime Ministers still provided with cars and drivers - at taxpayers' expense ?
What they get, even the wives of PM's get one too, personally why? they were not elected to anything, so that is more taxes wasted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31517640

Yes, here is Tony B Liar in his



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