Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

EU to enforce use of USB C connection for chargers

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

EU to enforce use of USB C connection for chargers

Old 8th Jun 2022, 22:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Scotland
Age: 42
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
I still don't understand how people who buy an iPhone, that comes with a charger, end up with an incompatible charger. Ah yes, of course, they used to have a Samsung so their old charger is incompatible. Err but they didn't buy an additional charger, it came with the iPhone. Sorry but using "savings to the consumer" doesn't make sense. Setting a common standard to reduce manufacturing costs makes sense. Will that saving be passed on to the commuter? On a cold day in Hell maybe.
I think the idea behind it is that the common connector (which the manufacturers have been moving towards for years anyway) and the harmonisation of fast charging speeds will mean that you don't need to buy a charger with your phone anymore. Any old charger that you have sitting around will do exactly the same job of charging your new phone so you don't need the new charger taking up space in the box and adding to the price. Personally, I have five or six fully functional USB chargers sitting around unused because they can only slow-charge my latest phone. I'd much rather be able to keep using the old one when I get a new phone rather than binning it.
Recc is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2022, 22:31
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 66
Reminds me of the old joke about the Soviet shoe store manager proudly claiming that customers can buy any shoe they want…as long as it’s size 9 in black.

Let me cast the sole (so far) dissenting “vote” against the EU mandate.

1. Government projections of “savings” rarely come to pass.

2. Electronics technology moves too fast to be restricted by government-imposed standards.

3. If EU consumers want a USB-C charging port, they have many options to purchase devices with said compatibility.

I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem approaching 30 years and have dealt with all the various interfaces: ADB, SCSI, parallel, SATA, USB-A, Firewire, DisplayPort, Lightening, USB-C, etc. Not once did I wish for the government step in and sort out this parade of interface technologies.
BFSGrad is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2022, 23:48
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 714
I would have thought the existence of a national standard for plugs and power sockets but your item 2 into question. Now if we could standardise that between countries Ö
Ninthace is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 02:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,340
Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
I would have thought the existence of a national standard for plugs and power sockets but your item 2 into question. Now if we could standardise that between countries Ö
Japan has not standardized its power generation, incompatible 50 cycle service in the East, 60 cycle in the West. Getting plugs standardized internationally is much more difficult.
So I applaud the USB C mandate, it strikes a small blow for practical standards internationally.
etudiant is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 04:56
  #25 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,111
My aged aunt has recently had a Samsung Chromebook "foisted" upon her as part of a deal... apart from the fact everyone who is teaching her how to use it is familiar with iPhone or Windows tech and this is different, what surprised me is that it has two USB C charging ports and only one USB 3 port for mice, USB sticks, and any other USB device one might care to use with it. I managed to get her a Bluetooth mouse and I know you can get USB splitters to increase the number of devices you can dangle from yer laptop but...
treadigraph is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 12:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by zz9 View Post
There may be a newer, better, faster, connector in a year or so, so we'd be able to offer it here while it wouldn't be allowed in the UK, unless they fitter both connectors, until the EU changed the law. Considering how long the EU takes to make decisions that could be another decade.
Since the USB-C spec allows for speeds of 10Gb/s it's going to be a long time before any consumer device will need anything faster. And by then short distance links will probably use mmWave wireless rather than wires. USB-C could then revert to just a power connection, for those cases where wireless charging hasn't taken over.

Originally Posted by zz9 View Post
Correct choice by the government. Almost certainly manufacturers will follow this law in the UK because it will just be easier but if some exceptional case comes up they'd be able to make and sell a product that didn't meet it.
Which manufacturers in the UK were you thinking of?
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 15:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: moraira,spain-Norfolk, UK
Age: 80
Posts: 387
I bought a tablet with only usb-c input. So now I cannot charge it
and have attached devices at the same time. Nothing I buy actually
works nicely.
esa-aardvark is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 17:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 921
Originally Posted by esa-aardvark View Post
Nothing I buy actually
works nicely.
And in those 6 simple words you have summed up pretty much the whole, vast range of poorly designed, badly made, cheaply made products produced by the electronics industry around the globe, mostly using underpaid workers in slave conditions.

Even if a product actually works, as in functions more or less correctly, sure as hell it won't do it nicely, and it won't function correctly for very long.
old,not bold is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 18:03
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 350
Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
I don't think they have a choice. Who want's to produce something that can't be sold in the EU?
They will sell the ones sold across the rest of the world who are not subject to EU regs. they already do different variants for different countries - such as double SIM card slot variants.

The EU ones will be easier to spot as they will be much thicker to accommodate the increased connector size and as one other poster pointed out, will have a replaceable battery which will again increase the bulk/
GrahamO is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 18:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
Taking Apple as an example, they must make a fortune from using their own design of cable, especially as it allows them to design their software to not fully function with OEM cables. I expect most manufacturers are the same.
I doubt it. The iPhone's Lightning connector is thinner than a USB-C, so allows the phone to be thinner. All of the new chargers are (approximately) the same, electrically. New ones have USB-C sockets, uniformly.Do you want a fatter phone just because the EU is years behind the curve in terms of design?
MarcK is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 18:51
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Yeah agree completely. Iíve been hanging onto my old iPhone with lightning charger for years, hoping every year that the next iPhone will have USB-C so I can just carry one cable for all my devices.
Trim Stab is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 21:56
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Too far South
Age: 48
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
No, only Apple. They have been fighting the EU over this for years.
Can you blame them?
They invented a cable that could charge, pass data and analogue audio at a time when other manufacturers used one cable to charge, another for data and a third for headphones. (like my first LG smartphone) They then improved on that design with something that wasn't polarised and allowed them to make their devices even thinner.

The mistake they made was not licensing it to other companies,
Lomon is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2022, 23:45
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 24,026
I use thunderbolt 3 on my PC but trying to get a CF card reader which I use for my photography up until of late was impossible, luckily that has changed.

I do like the USB C plug because you can put it in anyway up unlike some of the earlier designs.

But there are USB 3 and USB 3.1 gen 2 etc, thunderbolt 3 uses Gen 2 and transfers faster.

  • DATA & 4K VIDEO & POWER over this high performance USB-IF certified USB C Thunderbolt 3 cable that supports a 20 Gbps bi-directional data transfer rate when connecting Thunderbolt 3 devices Up to 100W of power to a charge a laptop or deliver 15W to bus-powered devices
  • 2x USB 3.1 GEN 2 PERFORMANCE with the same reversible connector as a USB-C; Thunderbolt 3 USB C cable can deliver double the bandwidth of a USB Type-C cable and include power delivery, full 4K @ 60Hz video resolution support, and Gigabit Ethernet networking
As SallyAnne says

Since the USB-C spec allows for speeds of 10Gb/s it's going to be a long time before any consumer device will need anything faster. And by then short distance links will probably use mmWave wireless rather than wires. USB-C could then revert to just a power connection, for those cases where wireless charging hasn't taken over.
But that is Gen 1, Gen 2 as in Thunderbolt 3 is 20GB/s

The latest Thunderbolt 4 which is good for 8K streaming uses the USB-C format plug but now runs at 40GB/s

  • 【40Gbps Blazing Speed】The cable functions as a Thunderbolt 4 cable or a USB 4 cable, which delviers up to 40Gbps transfer speed, 8 times faster than USB 3.0. Please note that the speed varies from the port you apply with, better connect it with a thunderbolt 4 or USB 4 port to achieve the fastest speed.
  • 【Backward Compatibility】Fully compatible with the latest Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 interface and backward compatible with Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.2/3.1/3.0/2.0 ports. It is ideal to connect with your Mac, PS5 or USB C docks, etc.
  • 【Up to [email protected] Resolution】The 40Gbps cable can drive single [email protected] and Dual [email protected] or [email protected] display, to extend your screen into two clear monitor and enjoy a crystal clear world.
  • 【100W Fast Charging】Featured with 100W (20V/5A) fast charging, the cable fully charges a Mac in 2 hours, which is perfect for use with thunderbolt 4, USB 4 or USB C devices.

So note not all type C’s are equal.

More

https://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...s-thunderbolt/

Any indication that I actually know what I am talking about is purely unintentional..

Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Jun 2022 at 00:00.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 04:57
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,406
USB-C as mandated by the EU is just the hardware of the connector. The software levels behind it have not been mandated, so it is currently good for up to 40GB/s and 240 W power delivery, but you need the right cable and counterpart to take advantage of that. And of course it might provide more in the future, the EU simply points to the USB-Alliance specs and does not define it themselves.

That said, the directive includes regular update of the requirements which, unlike a new piece of legislation, allows for fast adaptation of changed or better standards. If something better comes along that the industry moves towards (which admittedly is not fast, USB-C took 5 years to be widely adopted) then it can be easily become the new mandate. The hard part was the requirement for a common connector, not which one it is.
Denti is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 09:02
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 793
Drifting slightly, it's a surprise that the EU are not mandating an EU wide domestic power socket for mains supplies. It's not uncommon to buy a piece of electrical equipment with two different power cables included.
Saintsman is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 09:02
  #36 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,111
Funny, just remembering trying to get peripherals working with computers 25 plus years ago, several different ports, trying to configure LPT1 or LPT2 or whatever, having to have the correct drivers to hand, etc, etc... nightmare! These days with USB it's generally a doddle (though I object to having to log in to a website in order to wifi my prints 10 feet through the ether to my HP colour doitall...)

Now, if I could get my DVD burner working with Windows - it registers, it reads, it just don't bloody write. Seems to be a known issue for several years. Fixes don't work.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 10:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 24,026
Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
Drifting slightly, it's a surprise that the EU are not mandating an EU wide domestic power socket for mains supplies. It's not uncommon to buy a piece of electrical equipment with two different power cables included.
They wouldn't do that because the best one in the world is the UK 3 pin one. Even the Americans love them for their safety features that you may not realise.


Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Jun 2022 at 11:09.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 10:59
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Budapest
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
Drifting slightly, it's a surprise that the EU are not mandating an EU wide domestic power socket for mains supplies. It's not uncommon to buy a piece of electrical equipment with two different power cables included.
Never seen that. Everything we have, or have bought has come with a single power cable with the 2 pin Europlug attached. I believe that of EU States only Malta & Ireland differ.
Expatrick is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 11:08
  #39 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,111
I bought a Bluetooth speaker receiver from Amazon recently, identical to one I bought several years ago... irritated to find its power lead was a 2 pronged Euro model. Never mind, the next morning Tesco supplied a shaver adapter! Necessitus and all that... A decade or so back I had bought wireless speaker transmitter and four receivers which had plugs with interchangeable European/UK prongs. Sadly the transmitter bust and I was unable to replace it, not found anything similar since.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2022, 11:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I use thunderbolt 3 on my PC but trying to get a CF card reader which I use for my photography up until of late was impossible, luckily that has changed.

I do like the USB C plug because you can put it in anyway up unlike some of the earlier designs.

But there are USB 3 and USB 3.1 gen 2 etc, thunderbolt 3 uses Gen 2 and transfers faster.



As SallyAnne says



But that is Gen 1, Gen 2 as in Thunderbolt 3 is 20GB/s

The latest Thunderbolt 4 which is good for 8K streaming uses the USB-C format plug but now runs at 40GB/s




So note not all type C’s are equal.

More

https://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...s-thunderbolt/

Any indication that I actually know what I am talking about is purely unintentional..
Under the range of USB-C specifications there are so many permitted variations of cable, connector and terminal electronics that one could argue for ever on the details. But a couple of comments:

- The power limit remains at 100w for all 5v connections, which includes phones, tablets, and most small consumer devices. The latest spec update only allows the possibility of higher powers by increasing the voltage.

- USB and Thunderbolt are not the same technology, other than that Apple's proprietary Thunderbolt uses the USB hardware. So you cannot apply Apple's own operational characteristics to the generic USB specs.

- The speed limit for USB-C is 10Gb/s (Gbits). This is not controlled by the socket or cable but is set by the clock frequency of the driver electronics. There is no otherwise upper limit to the frequency, except that the loss at these frequencies in the copper cables and non-coaxial connectors means that the signal degradation over distance becomes extreme. Apple can rate their speeds at up to 40Gb/s (note not 40GB/s (Gbytes) which would be 8 times faster), but if reliable communication is required over any distance a different medium would be needed.

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 10th Jun 2022 at 12:16. Reason: typo
Sallyann1234 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.