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Toyotas new Hydrogen car.

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Toyotas new Hydrogen car.

Old 1st Jun 2022, 20:15
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Toyotas new Hydrogen car.

Blurb here

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/mi...d-9f4783991c77

Refuel in 5 mins 317.5 to 357.5. MPG

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/mirai

The trouble is not enough refuelling stations yet

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Old 1st Jun 2022, 21:05
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I like Toyota (currently have a Sienna and a RAV 4) but £49K (well over 50K USD) is a bit steep.
(Also, one would need to be near a big city, I suspect, to be near Hydrogen fueling site).
But am I interested? Heck yes!
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 22:34
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In the US, it is mainly California that has invested in such hydrogen infrastructure, I believe.
There are about five hydrogen filling stations dotted around London in the UK, and several more throughout the land, but they are still few and far between. My guess is that even as the cost of petrol/gasoline at the pump rises, hydrogen costs will fall. The Koreans and Chinese also believe that hydrogen cars have a future.

Although this second generation Mirai looks better all round, it is very expensive as mentioned above, and may need government subsidies to help it take off, (as was done in Japan). Reasonable first-generation examples can be found secondhand though, so these cars are not completely out of reach.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 02:29
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Mitigating the blast from an accident might be a challenge, lest they go up like Ford Pintos getting rear ended .
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 03:04
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I’ve always been a fan of Toyotas having owned a couple of Supras and an MR2 mk2, it’s early days yet but I can see this technology leapfrogging the clamour for electric only cars simply because of the greater range and quick refuelling compared to the likes of your Tesla.

It’s ok while you have limited electric cars on the road, but as their popularity grows charging stations will becoming increasingly a problem with the slower charging rates and the larger traffic footprint on the likes of motorways.

Like anything I expect the price will drop significantly as the technology, availability and the fuelling network matures .
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 03:35
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Originally Posted by fitliker View Post
Mitigating the blast from an accident might be a challenge, lest they go up like Ford Pintos getting rear ended .
From what I have heard, from just such concerns, they have therefore been fashioned and positioned in a virtually bulletproof manner. Having said that, I believe that some initial instruction is required for filling procedure safety.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 03:39
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Iíve always been a fan of Toyotas having owned a couple of Supras and an MR2 mk2, itís early days yet but I can see this technology leapfrogging the clamour for electric only cars simply because of the greater range and quick refuelling compared to the likes of your Tesla.

Itís ok while you have limited electric cars on the road, but as their popularity grows charging stations will becoming increasingly a problem with the slower charging rates and the larger traffic footprint on the likes of motorways.

Like anything I expect the price will drop significantly as the technology, availability and the fuelling network matures .
Agreed. I had a series of Soarers, 2.5L, 3.0L, 4.0L and a bored supercharged 5.0L. Oh, and a Celica GT4, and a very comfortable 3.0L TT Aristo.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 06:56
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This is the way to go. Including for aviation. Forget laptop batteries.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 10:50
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The inevitable safety concerns are raised, but what are the examples on which they are based. The only major hydrogen 'explosion', of which I am aware, is the Hindenberg. That was spectacular, not least because it was filmed, but subsequent evaluations have pointed out that the fact that it was hydrogen was something of a lifesaver, in that the major impetus was above the incident (lighter than air). Which subsequent incidents/accidents have indicated a perticularly enhanced hazard vis-a-vis petrol ?
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 11:27
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Refuel in 5 mins 317.5 to 357.5. MPG
Don't think so; that's the range not the mileage. As far as aviation, this has been discussed to death on other threads; weight and volume of tankage for both liquid and gaseous hydrogen suggest it's not a suitable fuel. There are other issues with using a fuel cell for aviation, including maximum energy output.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 12:06
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
From what I have heard, from just such concerns, they have therefore been fashioned and positioned in a virtually bulletproof manner. Having said that, I believe that some initial instruction is required for filling procedure safety.
I imagine that the signage you see in petrol stations regarding the use of mobile phones on the forecourt that are studiously ignored presently may take on a whole new significance when fuelling with hydrogen!! Smoking might also not be very advisable!
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 12:57
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There is also the question of where does the hydrogen come from in the first place? If itís got anything to do with fossil fuels, then whatís the point and if you are using ďgreenĒ electricity to produce it then why not use the electricity directly to charge batteries and miss out on all the extra conversion losses: 20% to make the H2 by electrolysis and 30-40% again back to electricity in the best fuel cells, giving a loss of at least half overall?
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 13:09
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Although this second generation Mirai looks better all round, it is very expensive as mentioned above, and may need government subsidies to help it take off, (as was done in Japan)
My brother in law (in Virginia) bought a Prius in part due to the 1500 dollar tax credit he was eligible for that year if he bought a hybrid. I am reluctant to move back to big city living, so I may not have the option for a hydrogen car (due to lack of filling stations) as soon as I may have a chance at an electric car that I can plug into the wall at home. And that's still five to seven years out for me (My current car was purchased in 2013 and I keep cars forever. I hate car payments). And in that time horizon, I suspect that hydrogen cars like the Mirai will have matured.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 14:50
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Hydrogen is not a fossil fuel, but it is labelled grey (gray) if the electrolysis is performed with fossil fuels. Then there is blue hydrogen, splitting hydrogen from natural gas, and finally environmentally friendly green hydrogen from water, where ultimately everyone is looking to the day that solar or wind-generated electricity will perform the bulk of the water electrolysis for hydrogen. It’s happening, but not yet on the approaching grand scale needed to power ships and large vehicles.

For the hydrogen rainbow, see:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...olour-spectrum
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 15:00
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Hydrogen is not a fossil fuel, but it is labelled grey (gray) if the electrolysis is performed with fossil fuels. Then there is blue hydrogen, splitting hydrogen from natural gas, and finally environmentally friendly green hydrogen from water, where ultimately everyone is looking to the day that solar or wind-generated electricity will perform the bulk of the water electrolysis for hydrogen. Itís happening, but not yet on the approaching grand scale needed to power ships and large vehicles.

For the hydrogen rainbow, see:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...olour-spectrum
Back in the late 70ís I remember a discussion on an LA radio regarding vehicle emissions. One of the comments that has stuck with me over the years was that the easiest/cheapest way to produce the hydrogen in the quantities required was to build fast breeder reactors around the arctic circle.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 15:19
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If you watch the film link I posted they are talking about being green as they will use cow poo to generate the hydrogen.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 16:09
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
If you watch the film link I posted they are talking about being green as they will use cow poo to generate the hydrogen.
In that case it would bring back happy memories of the Planes of Fame Museum at Chino, surrounded by feedlots in the early days.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 16:14
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And let the battles begin! Itís going to be over small and large nuclear reactors waste quantities and streams, University of Stanford and University of British Columbia just released a study
Bill Gates and Rolls Royce arenít going to be happy.
Curious as to who funded them.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 18:28
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
If you watch the film link I posted they are talking about being green as they will use cow poo to generate the hydrogen.
That's going to take a whole lot of cow poo to power large fleets of cars.
At the same time the greenies are telling us we have to move away from beef and other meats and live off plant based 'meat', since cows in particular are huge sources of green house gasses.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 19:16
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
That's going to take a whole lot of cow poo to power large fleets of cars.
At the same time the greenies are telling us we have to move away from beef and other meats and live off plant based 'meat', since cows in particular are huge sources of green house gasses.

I happen to know a couple of humans that will clear a room in nothing flat, so well known, at the first noise, folks are already exiting stage left.
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