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Why don't we care about the price of Petrol any more?

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Why don't we care about the price of Petrol any more?

Old 16th May 2022, 18:50
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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My 124 mpg PHEV is looking a better buy every day at the moment.
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Old 16th May 2022, 19:11
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FakePilot View Post
In short, (especially during a short) electric cars aren't the miracle cure.
and I don't disagree. In fact I've said all along that it's a personal choice. If I just drove into town occasionally to do the shopping I'd drive something tiny and easy to park, like my sister had a Picanto and apparently there was no road tax for that as it was so compact. If I had a horde of children to cart around, I'd get something a lot larger, If I was a workman I'd get a van or a truck etc etc. Having said that though, I think EVs have a place and that they will only become more mainstream until perhaps they're the dominant type on the road.

Regarding your other points, I think it's a little premature to wonder whether ICE vehicles or EVs will last longer. In fact I'd say it was an unfair comparison - unless you compared a Y to say a 1941 Packard as EV technology still has a lot of room to mature

I also think that EVs have two often overlooked benefits: One is that they fuel themselves when you slow down - at least the regen system puts energy back into the battery, whereas an ICE vehicle just discards it as heat.

The second is even more important and concerns charging. Sure if everyone came home and plugged in at once then it would cause a drain on the power grid, but you can plug an EV in and schedule charging for a low peak time, so in essence they could be used to stabilise the output of power stations into the grid


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Old 16th May 2022, 19:43
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Elon Musk has said we'll have plenty of electricity for electric cars when we stop refining petrol.
Here's a look at that statement.
electricity used in refining..

There is no exact calculation for how much electricity it takes to drill, transport and refine a gallon of gasoline, but the accepted amount is around 8 kWh. So, for 8 kWh, you can go around 22 miles ( using the U.S. average; we know you can go over twice that if you drive a Toyota Prius). That means that a gasoline car uses just under 40 kWh to go 100 miles. An EV, on the other hand, uses around 30 kWh to go 100 miles (given 3.3 miles per kWh, which is on the low side for some cars).
I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 2 1/2 years now and done just short on 90,000 km. I had a humidity sensor go bad, which Tesla diagnosed remotely, and last week I had to change the driver's side windscreen wiper. Nothing else. There's a 8 year guarantee on the battery and drive train.

Looking through my old statements I see that in January 2020 Teslaa supercharging cost euro 0.25 per kwh and now its risen to euro 0.50 per kwh. Charging at home costs euro0.30 per kwh. I live in an apartment and don't have the option of solar panels. Nevertheless I'm pleased with the running costs.

The Tesla app comes with a running cost comparison guide:

Energy costs for the last month. At the start of the month I drove from West Sussex to Bavaria so I had to use the Tesla supercharger system rather more than normal
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Old 17th May 2022, 00:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rockie_Rapier View Post
Elon Musk has said we'll have plenty of electricity for electric cars when we stop refining petrol.
Here's a look at that statement.
electricity used in refining..
Where does the linked article (11 years old BTW) say anything about Elon Musk? It also is painfully lacking in any meaningful references. The author appears to be making the mistake of considering all the energy used in the production and refining of fuel "electricity", which it plainly is not. It might take 8 kw of energy to create a gallon of gasoline, but most of it is not electricity.
Musk is actually on record as saying we're going to need to double our electrical production to power all the upcoming EVs.

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Old 17th May 2022, 04:23
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Try this

It would be good to see how much of the power used in refining comes now from wind and solar.

Last edited by Rockie_Rapier; 17th May 2022 at 04:39. Reason: spuuling
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Old 17th May 2022, 06:01
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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On the basis that the UK now only has 3 operating coal fired power stations none of which are near an oil refinery and, one of which (Ratcliffe-on-Soar) wasn't operating when I drove past on the weekend, I'd say that very little power from coal is used!

When I was a lad both the local refinery and the chemical plant had their own power stations, oil fired in the refinery (obviously) and the other gas powered. Both facilities are now long gone but the power station built just before the chemical plant closed is still there, pumping ziggy volts into the grid.

PS Mr. Ecotricity is possibly a little biased using 15 years out of date info......
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Old 17th May 2022, 12:10
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If you think EVs do/will use a lot of electricity, you should check out how much bitcoin mining does/will use
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Old 17th May 2022, 12:46
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements View Post
If you think EVs do/will use a lot of electricity, you should check out how much bitcoin mining does/will use
Or all the heat pumps planned to replace our gas boilers. Unlike EVs they canít burn most of their electricity off peak.
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Old 17th May 2022, 13:00
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements View Post
If you think EVs do/will use a lot of electricity, you should check out how much bitcoin mining does/will use
The energy used to mine bitcoin is securing the bitcoin network, itís worth it to create a store of value that canít be debased by your central banks. Oil companies are now looking into mining bitcoin with the energy produced from flaring.
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Old 17th May 2022, 13:37
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Just brimmed my tank off with 27.5 litres of Morrison's finest go juice. It was brimmed at the last fill and had done exactly 1100 miles between fills. I leave others to do the maths but I reckon that is not bad going.
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Old 17th May 2022, 14:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by roll_over View Post
The energy used to mine bitcoin is securing the bitcoin network, itís worth it to create a store of value that canít be debased by your central banks. Oil companies are now looking into mining bitcoin with the energy produced from flaring.
Let's be honest, crypto currency was made for criminals

"a store of value"? Not for anyone who bought it last November at twice the price it is now

And the fact that "Oil companies are now looking into mining bitcoin with the energy produced from flaring" doesn't make them look any better. It's just another waste - If they can do something with that energy, why don't they do something useful with it instead?
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Old 17th May 2022, 14:13
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
Just brimmed my tank off with 27.5 litres of Morrison's finest go juice. It was brimmed at the last fill and had done exactly 1100 miles between fills. I leave others to do the maths but I reckon that is not bad going.
1100 is pretty impressive

"brimmed" - When you fill it, do you wait for the first auto-shutoff, or do you keep putting it in there until you can actually see it?

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Old 17th May 2022, 15:32
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements View Post
I still don't understand why ICE drivers get so defensive about EVs. I don't really care what other people drive, I'm just glad I don't have to pay $100 to fill up some unnecessarily large gas guzzling monster every week or two - and yes, that's the US, I understand cars are a lot smaller (dare I say more sensible?) in the UK, but like I say, drive what you want, that's your decision
I agree with you, and I think it is plain jealousy on their part. And we all hate paying £70 for a tank of fuel that used to cost £50 something.

On the OP, I care deeply about petrol prices, since I still have a (small) 13 year old ICE car. But what can I do about petrol prices? I walk as much as I can - even several miles - rather than use the car. I am confused that we (UK) are not drilling our own oil, presumably it has all gone?
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Old 17th May 2022, 15:51
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
On the OP, I care deeply about petrol prices, since I still have a (small) 13 year old ICE car. But what can I do about petrol prices? I walk as much as I can - even several miles - rather than use the car. I am confused that we (UK) are not drilling our own oil, presumably it has all gone?
It's a global market; drilling your own can protect you from supply issues, but (without controls on your domestic producers) it can't protect you from a global price rise because your domestic producers can always choose to sell their product overseas if they'll get more for it.
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Old 17th May 2022, 17:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sue VÍtements View Post
1100 is pretty impressive

"brimmed" - When you fill it, do you wait for the first auto-shutoff, or do you keep putting it in there until you can actually see it?
The latter
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Old 17th May 2022, 17:13
  #56 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
On the basis that the UK now only has 3 operating coal fired power stations none of which are near an oil refinery and, one of which (Ratcliffe-on-Soar) wasn't operating when I drove past on the weekend, I'd say that very little power from coal is used!...
Having been based a couple of miles from that one for over twenty years, you should see how hard it works on a still, foggy morning, when solar and wind generators are useless.
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Old 17th May 2022, 17:52
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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The price of fuel doesn't affect me as I just put £20's worth in the tank every time I visit a petrol station !

Hat, coat etc
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Old 17th May 2022, 18:14
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@ Ninthace, I am struggling to remember the reference now, but I heard or read, that brimming the fuel tank like that can potentially lead to damaging the catalytic convertor? Not sure quite how, but overfilling the engine oil can damage them as well, so maybe something to do with the engine emissions recirculating system causing unburned hydrocarbons to reach the catalytic convertors.

Thanks, pasta. So we need to nationalise our energy producers? Probably much too simplistic of me !
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Old 17th May 2022, 18:39
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
@ Ninthace, I am struggling to remember the reference now, but I heard or read, that brimming the fuel tank like that can potentially lead to damaging the catalytic convertor? Not sure quite how, but overfilling the engine oil can damage them as well, so maybe something to do with the engine emissions recirculating system causing unburned hydrocarbons to reach the catalytic convertors.
The only reference I can find is that running on E risks damaging the cat in Subarus. I fill until I see the fuel so I am comparing like with like when measuring fuel consumption, I don't actually take it to the top.
In my case the engine runs the generator that puts juice in the battery and drives the motor that turns the wheels so it runs n the more fuel efficient Atkinson Cycle.
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Old 17th May 2022, 19:03
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
The latter
You might reconsider that action. It's not the Cat that'll be damaged though[1] it's the Carbon ...I can't think of the name now, part of the recirculation system. Wait - Charcoal cannister?. Whatever it's called, it's supposed to deal with vapours, not liquid

[1] I trashed my Cat on my Miata (MX5) by (unnecessarily) cleaning the engine, but the plugs go down vertically into the block, so they got water in there, then a couple shorted out so unburned fuel went into the exhaust and burned out the Cat

Too bad really, because it was a fun car to drive (although the words "death" and "trap" occasionally came to mind)
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