P&O Ferries
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 789
P&O Ferries
I can understand that if a company is losing huge sums of money, changes have to be made, but I'm not so sure that P&O Ferries' way is the way to go. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001
For one, sacking all the staff and bringing in cheaper agency worker seems a recipe for disaster, just from a safety point of view alone. How can they expect to run a service when none of the staff know the systems or where things are? I don't think I would be happy sailing on one of their ferries and I think that if there is competition on the route, people would take the alternative and that means the ferries will lose even more money.
I doubt that P&O Cruises will be happy either as people will think that it is the same company and will likely suffer from people choosing other lines because they think that their cruises might be in danger.
I feel for the staff though. Difficult times ahead.
For one, sacking all the staff and bringing in cheaper agency worker seems a recipe for disaster, just from a safety point of view alone. How can they expect to run a service when none of the staff know the systems or where things are? I don't think I would be happy sailing on one of their ferries and I think that if there is competition on the route, people would take the alternative and that means the ferries will lose even more money.
I doubt that P&O Cruises will be happy either as people will think that it is the same company and will likely suffer from people choosing other lines because they think that their cruises might be in danger.
I feel for the staff though. Difficult times ahead.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 73
Posts: 9,359
Aren't all seamen certificated in some way? They can't just turn up and operate a ship surely?
I know its different for privately operated boats; I was amazed when I bought my boat and there was no requirement for training or anything even if I was sailing on the open sea.
I know its different for privately operated boats; I was amazed when I bought my boat and there was no requirement for training or anything even if I was sailing on the open sea.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Station 42
Age: 67
Posts: 961
From BBC News:
They [the Maritime Executive] pointed to the fact that British and French seafarers are particularly expensive to employ compared to foreign staff.
Hmmm, let's re-word that to: Foreign staff are cheaper to employ than British and French seafarers.
They [the Maritime Executive] pointed to the fact that British and French seafarers are particularly expensive to employ compared to foreign staff.
Hmmm, let's re-word that to: Foreign staff are cheaper to employ than British and French seafarers.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,447
Let's do the sums.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
In reality this is nothing more or less than a disgusting way of increasing dividend to the Arab owners and has nothing to do with saving the business or returning it to viability.
The unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
In reality this is nothing more or less than a disgusting way of increasing dividend to the Arab owners and has nothing to do with saving the business or returning it to viability.
The unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 65
Posts: 60
I assume P&O is a registered UK business and therefore employees are covered by UK employment law which, on the face of it, would seem to make this action illegal.
In UK you can't just sack someone, you have to follow due process. On the other hand, if they were made redundant, rather than sacked, then there is still due process plus the accompanying redundancy payouts and you can't employ someone else to fill the gap, not without at least changing the name of the position you're filling.
Now, if they're not actually employees of P&O but are contracted in then all bets are off I'm afraid.
Sounds like a good one for employment lawyers to resolve to me.
In UK you can't just sack someone, you have to follow due process. On the other hand, if they were made redundant, rather than sacked, then there is still due process plus the accompanying redundancy payouts and you can't employ someone else to fill the gap, not without at least changing the name of the position you're filling.
Now, if they're not actually employees of P&O but are contracted in then all bets are off I'm afraid.
Sounds like a good one for employment lawyers to resolve to me.
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhones-Alpes
Posts: 347
Originally Posted by ATNotts
Let's do the sums.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
.
Whoops ! Try £ 32 milion.and £ 40 million.: this here "doing the sums " is a tricky business !
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Whoops ! Try £ 32 milion.and £ 40 million.: this here "doing the sums " is a tricky business !
Must apply for a job in the treasury!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 9,184
I'm sure on board customer facing staff would be British or French at expensive rates, however engineers, stokers and back office food staff will be cheaper foreign nationals.
I assume they were also sacked...
Are P&O actually doing this for a UK Government hand out to keep the jobs rather than them appearing on the Unemployed stats??
I assume they were also sacked...
Are P&O actually doing this for a UK Government hand out to keep the jobs rather than them appearing on the Unemployed stats??
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly in my own imagination
Posts: 132
Yes but who really cares? do you really expect people about to book a crossing to take this into consideration?
That's (one of) the problem with the Market Driven Economy model, we have the fantastic advantage of being able to 'vote' with our pocketbooks, but generally speaking all we care about is the lowest price
It's the unspoken part of the "Buy UK Made" or "Made in America" slogans that get trotted out before elections. Sure that's a great idea and something we should do, but the people running on those slogans never point out that either ( i ) things will cost more or ( ii ) UK or US wages (and safety/environmental protocols) will have to be reduced to match those of our foreign competitors
That's (one of) the problem with the Market Driven Economy model, we have the fantastic advantage of being able to 'vote' with our pocketbooks, but generally speaking all we care about is the lowest price
It's the unspoken part of the "Buy UK Made" or "Made in America" slogans that get trotted out before elections. Sure that's a great idea and something we should do, but the people running on those slogans never point out that either ( i ) things will cost more or ( ii ) UK or US wages (and safety/environmental protocols) will have to be reduced to match those of our foreign competitors
Last edited by Sue Vêtements; 17th Mar 2022 at 16:17.
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: God's Own County
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by ATNotts
Let's do the sums.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
In reality this is nothing more or less than a disgusting way of increasing dividend to the Arab owners and has nothing to do with saving the business or returning it to viability.
The unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism.
P&O Ferries lost £100m last year. Say across all 800 people losing their jobs earn on average £40k p/a making £3.2m plus, say 15% employment expenses - being generous call it £4m 'saving', except its not as they'll most probably need replacing 1 for 1. Hardly a dent in £100m is it?
In reality this is nothing more or less than a disgusting way of increasing dividend to the Arab owners and has nothing to do with saving the business or returning it to viability.
The unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism.
Sacking the staff based in France will be hard unless the law there has changed recently..
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,178
Thankfully, the UK Transport Minister, Shapps, is reportedly "concerned "....although "confused " would probably be more accurate.
Sadly, Grayling will not be appearing out of the Channel fog with a mythical fleet seen only in times of crisis.
Taken from the BBC report.
" P&O is owned by DP World, the multi-national ports and logistics company based in Dubai. It paid a £270m dividend to shareholders in 2020."
This has to be one of the most brazen acts of corporate disdain in history. Sacked by video link, ok, this has been done before, quite recently in the US I recall, but to give, as reported, no warning and have replacement crews and "security ", read any thug who's got any black clothing, badged or otherwise, on the docks ready to board once the announcement was made shows a calculating and despotic "management" ....presumably they thought the crews would simply capitulate, nod their heads meekly and just disembark...and that both UK and French employment laws didn't apply to them.
Stena may be quietly grateful on the Irish Sea routes with freight traffic having been decimated by the ramifications of Brexit, but that's not going to help the crews now suddenly made redundant just when inflation and a soaring cost of living crisis is escalating in the UK.
Sadly, Grayling will not be appearing out of the Channel fog with a mythical fleet seen only in times of crisis.
Taken from the BBC report.
" P&O is owned by DP World, the multi-national ports and logistics company based in Dubai. It paid a £270m dividend to shareholders in 2020."
This has to be one of the most brazen acts of corporate disdain in history. Sacked by video link, ok, this has been done before, quite recently in the US I recall, but to give, as reported, no warning and have replacement crews and "security ", read any thug who's got any black clothing, badged or otherwise, on the docks ready to board once the announcement was made shows a calculating and despotic "management" ....presumably they thought the crews would simply capitulate, nod their heads meekly and just disembark...and that both UK and French employment laws didn't apply to them.
Stena may be quietly grateful on the Irish Sea routes with freight traffic having been decimated by the ramifications of Brexit, but that's not going to help the crews now suddenly made redundant just when inflation and a soaring cost of living crisis is escalating in the UK.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 56
Posts: 879
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
This has to be one of the most brazen acts of corporate disdain in history. Sacked by video link, ok, this has been done before, quite recently in the US I recall
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Back on The Island.
Posts: 476
Been using P&O twixt Hull and Rotterdam for the last 25 years or so, up to eight times a year. Handy when we lived in NL and now on The Island as it's only 75mins drive to Hull. However, if that's the way they treat their staff then I will cease using them. I remember about three years ago they ditched all the Portuguese restaurant staff, whom we knew as friends and replaced them with Asians who are friendly but probably cheaper. Money seems to be the bottom line here but reading about the shareholder dividends paid out last year, greed would be a better word. They should not get away with this. Very sad for all concerned and a warning for others in this hostile, modern world.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,733
When I was working, I would have resigned rather than carry out "dismissals" like that.
Does the Co not have solicitors?? - That all sounded very, very unlawful.
For business reasons, I have been involved in letting too many people go - but never in such an awful way. I do hope they get decent compensation.
Does the Co not have solicitors?? - That all sounded very, very unlawful.
For business reasons, I have been involved in letting too many people go - but never in such an awful way. I do hope they get decent compensation.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by NutLoose
I do wonder if dockworkers will refuse to handle them, then they will be royally screwed.
Generally I abhor union militancy but in this case I hope P&O get a very bloody nose.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,178
Originally Posted by El Grifo
How are P+O able to bring in all of those replacement workers en masse under the current immigration regs ?
El Grifo
El Grifo
To judge from the reports, the public backlash has already begun in earnest....surely they couldn't be that arrogant to assume the public wouldn't object...seemingly so it appears.
However, given this is JB and "the damned unions left wing rabble !! "usually get castigated for no valid reason, it's amusing to read this sudden support, even more so when the RMT are involved.
Take it this support will still be offered when the proposed series of rail industrial actions start later this year ?
