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P&O Ferries

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P&O Ferries

Old 17th Mar 2022, 18:47
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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KnC

I believe that when the cause is just most people recognise a wrong and will be supportive.

Sadly where the train guards / conductors disputes are concerned the RMT behave in the manner of industrial dinosaurs and get little sympathy.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 19:10
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Take it this support will still be offered when the proposed series of rail industrial actions start later this year ?
Use current drop in passengers to push for driverless trains. I was very pleased to read that this issue is a condition of future government support for TfL. Once it is on the table, it won't disappear. Time to hold RMT's feet to the fire.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 19:32
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Take it this support will still be offered when the proposed series of rail industrial actions start later this year ?
Depends what they're protesting about. If it's being fired in order to be replaced by someone else who's going to do exactly the same job for less money, they'd have my sympathy. If, as seems to be the case with many rail disputes, they're being retained in the same employment, on the same pay, but asked to perform a different role because their existing role is obsolete, I'd probably be less sympathetic. It sometimes feels like every train would be still required to carry a fireman if the RMT had their way, and it would be justified on grounds of safety. We'd probably still have to have water tower operators too.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 19:56
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I do wonder if dockworkers will refuse to handle them, then they will be royally screwed.
Maybe itís part of the plan. If no one will handle them, it becomes very easy to shut the whole thing down and sell off the ships. That way, they are no longer going to be losing £100m per year. Itís a lot easier to get rid of the agency staff and all the original staff would have gone.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 20:25
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
Use current drop in passengers to push for driverless trains. I was very pleased to read that this issue is a condition of future government support for TfL. Once it is on the table, it won't disappear. Time to hold RMT's feet to the fire.
I recommend this article on the subject of "driverless" trains:
https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ss-tube-train/
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 20:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Traindriving is a VERY undervalued skill. Not only do you have to stop at just the right place at the platform, but it must be ever so difficult to keep the thing on those skinny rails. I bet that takes a LOT of concentration
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 20:34
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The cross channel ferries are notoriously competitive with slim profit margins, exacerbated by the Channel Tunnel and the availability of low cost flights to some extent. There is potential for the ferries to operate outside of UK and EU employment law, the loopholes in shipping are numerous and there has never been an attempt to fix them in Europe. Quite honestly the salaries aren't particularly exceptional anyway, certainly not in line with the railways.

The interesting issue is that that it will be difficult (but not insurmountable) to replace the Masters and senior officers who hold 'pilotage exemption certificates' allowing them to operate the ferries in and out of the various cross channel ports without requiring a pilot. I suspect a few competitors will be quick to offer them jobs.

Surely there was a better way to handle this.


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Old 17th Mar 2022, 20:59
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by L'aviateur View Post
The
Surely there was a better way to handle this.
If the aim was to replace the current crews, then it's pretty certain that the ferries would have been occupied and all services stopped whatever happened. If P&O really are making such huge losses ( and i mean real operating loses without any accountancy magic ) then the choices are very hard and will once again encompass the current bunch of wallies in Whitehall;
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:02
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
Maybe itís part of the plan. If no one will handle themne.

Not allowed. Secondary picketing, union fines, sequestration, hiding the union funds in Cuba. etc
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:10
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dastocks View Post
I recommend this article on the subject of "driverless" trains:
https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ss-tube-train/
I've read it before: would like to read more opinions on the same. I have not read any extensive articles explaining why the Elizabeth Line won't be driverless, although there was a very long article in The Guardian last week about the enormous complexity and power of the digital signalling and control systems.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Having just passed the 35th anniversary of the Herald of Free Enterprise loss, getting rid of all the current staff and replacing them with cheaper, presumably at least non current, or worse, inexperienced, individuals, doesn't do a lot of good for the impression of safety. ​​​​​​​From the reports I've heard they will be offering new - but worse terms - contracts to the few senior staff, such as Captains and senior engineers, whose personal certifications are required to continue operations. If they decide to jump ship then any quick restart is stuffed.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​All seems a bit like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded pistol and hoping the round you choose fails to fire.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:28
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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If the current crews stay on the boats at what point to they open the sea cocks and scuttle them in the harbour, yes they settle on the sea floor and could easily be re floated etc but what a way to say I Quit 😁
​​​​​
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:33
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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No arguements with the way the staff sackings have been handled, but i'd wager that P&O's revenue stream has suffered greatly during the last 2 years and now with the cost of oil and diesel shooting way up, well the probably isn't much profit to be made, so they've taken the corporate cleaver out to hack off any surplus fat that they can. However their corporate image will be tarnished and as we know that can be challenging to recapture. Oh, I know! A name change!
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 21:43
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Would sadly agree. They will use the legal eagles to bolster their position and will already have a budgeted settlement in mind. I would suggest that it may look quite good to start with but what are employment prospects in Kent or wider world for UK Merchant Navy staff who were used to going home at night.

Cheers
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 22:30
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Having just listened to a Sky news reporter trying to explain away P&O's business woes I couldn't help but notice how many times he mentioned the NI protocol. Stand-by for tomorrows news round when the duty ministers go round the studios trying to blame the EU and their lack of willingness to be flexible for P&O having to sack UK workers and hire Europeans. It will be all the EU's fault and of course absolutely nothing to do with the wider damage caused by Brexit. i.e. Ireland having loads of its own ferries to bypass the UK completely.
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 00:26
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
Id wager that P&O's revenue stream has suffered greatly during the last 2 years and now with the cost of oil and diesel shooting way up, well the probably isn't much profit to be made, so they've taken the corporate cleaver out to hack off any surplus fat that they can.
Quite possibly, but you can bet your bottom dollar there'll be no cleaver application to the upper echelons or the executive suite. It's always the poor [email protected]@rds at the coal face who suffer

It's like Outsourcing: I'll believe it's a valid practice once I see high level jobs get outsourced
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 01:09
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I cannot see how the owners of these ferries can maintain the confidence of the Minister of Transport that they will be operating according to the original approvals in their operators licence. Hardly being operated to the benefit of the British customers and British business interests .
An excellent opportunity for the present government to show their support for fair and equitable labours practices and support for transportation continuity before the next election .
Having worked on a ferry system that was abusive and offered very little job security , I laugh now when I see that they cannot get licensed engineering positions filled . Cancellations of sailings blamed on COVID , when they were simply lacking trained crew .
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 02:33
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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That 100m loss is offset by the 278m share dividend to some extent, bet the CEO still has their perks
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 08:15
  #39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
If the aim was to replace the current crews, then it's pretty certain that the ferries would have been occupied and all services stopped whatever happened. If P&O really are making such huge losses ( and i mean real operating loses without any accountancy magic ) then the choices are very hard and will once again encompass the current bunch of wallies in Whitehall;
You will be, along with others, delighted to learn the current Gov't is very much on your side then, as the second link re firing-rehiring demonstrates. Always amusing to read the views of those who condemn the unions, but who are only too happy to be the recipient of the changes and benefits the unions have brought to the workplace and hence society over the years.

How do you feel about sending children up chimneys ...just out of interest ?

This interview last night was very interesting. The problem, is, he's a member of the current Gov't and therefore are his words just uttered for the camera, or, possible, just, do they actually have some sincerity.

Be interesting to learn which grades and staff occupations have been targeted and from where, and with what qualifications, the agency staff have been recruited,

Some of the legalities involved, albeit they are readily evident ...the outcome of this action will no doubt be watched carefully by others who may feel inclined to go the same way...

What are the legal implications of P&O Ferries sacking 800 staff? | Employment law | The Guardian

P&O Ferries sackings ‘absolute bombshell and a disaster,’ says Tory MP – Channel 4 News



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Old 18th Mar 2022, 08:36
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Not quite sure why some are (as usual and predictably) blaming the incumbent government when P&O are owned by Dubai based, DP World.

As anyone who has had any experience dealing with this particular area of the world will be well aware, it’s all about the cheapest labour with the weakest employee rights.
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