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Accidental shooting

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Accidental shooting

Old 24th Oct 2021, 04:55
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Iíve heard Baldwin is already moving on to a new film.

Itís called ĎProp Guní.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 08:12
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
Mind you, there isnít much traffic on many roads in Arizona, but it is still a long commute.
Hmmm... Arizona?
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 08:46
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Suggestions that it was a Cap-n-Ball revolver. Much harder to check what is loaded in it. Once loaded you can either fire it or spend a few minutes digging out the lead with a pin punch or a wood screw.

Yes, I own one.

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Old 24th Oct 2021, 11:57
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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ChrisVJ -"...It would be normal for the incoming armourer to expect dummy rounds in the kit. She might not know the previous guy had real rounds on set."

Sorry to disagree (violently!!!) - Anyone picking up a gun MUST IMMEDIATELY check for THEMSELVES that the
gun is unloaded. This is basic lesson No1 when handling firearms.
Lesson No 2 - NEVER, EVER point a gun at anyone.

What has happened is, in my mind, criminal negligence and should be punished as such.

SLFSFU
Shotgun qualified Range Safety Officer and Instructor.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 12:09
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=blue up;11131487]Suggestions that it was a Cap-n-Ball revolver. Much harder to check what is loaded in it. Once loaded you can either fire it or spend a few minutes digging out the lead with a pin punch or a wood screw.

Yes, I own one.


I, maybe mistakenly, thought prop cap and ball firearms were converted to fire blank cartridges. Much simpler and reliable for the armourer and safer for the actors. Takes an age to reload an original and you have loose black powder around. There is also the risk of more than one charge firing, yes I have had it happen when a cap fell off and the flash of the one being fired set off the adjacent charge. Rare, but it can happen. Best make things simple for actors.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 12:35
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Five rules of firearm safety:


5. ALWAYS WEAR APPROPRIATE EYE AND EAR PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING AND MAINTAINING YOUR FIREARM.

That would have looked good in a Western with him wearing his PPE...
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 14:53
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slfsfu View Post
........Sorry to disagree (violently!!!) - Anyone picking up a gun MUST IMMEDIATELY check for THEMSELVES that the gun is unloaded. This is basic lesson No1 when handling firearms.

Lesson No 2 - NEVER, EVER point a gun at anyone...........
Agree, but an actor might not know the first thing about guns, despite their character being a gunman - so they might not know how to check.

Secondly, the film shot might need a person shooting a gun towards the camera. In which case, very simple, you use a remotely started locked-off camera with nobody anywhere near the camera until after the gun shot has occurred and the gun has been put down.

I was on a clay pigeon shoot once and - very sensibly - you were not allowed to have any cartridges in your shotgun even with it 'broken' open, unless you were just about to close it and fire. Someone had their gun open with two cartridges in it and were told to take them out straight away.

I fired a 9mm hand-gun at a target range one afternoon - quite scary ! Several times the gun didn't work. I just put it straight down on the ledge and waited for the guy to check it for me. I did not try to fiddle with it at all.

Still wondering why live bullets of any description would be anywhere near a film set?
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 15:26
  #48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Still wondering why live bullets of any description would be anywhere near a film set?
My question too. This was supposed to be a low budget film on a tight schedule, but surely Hollywood veterans must have a place to buy blanks for use in prop guns, not pop down to the local Walmart or gun shop for live ammo.

The armorer on the set was a relative novice but apparently her dad was an experienced expert in the field and helped train her.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 18:34
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Agree, but an actor might not know the first thing about guns, despite their character being a gunman - so they might not know how to check.

Secondly, the film shot might need a person shooting a gun towards the camera. In which case, very simple, you use a remotely started locked-off camera with nobody anywhere near the camera until after the gun shot has occurred and the gun has been put down.

I was on a clay pigeon shoot once and - very sensibly - you were not allowed to have any cartridges in your shotgun even with it 'broken' open, unless you were just about to close it and fire. Someone had their gun open with two cartridges in it and were told to take them out straight away.

I fired a 9mm hand-gun at a target range one afternoon - quite scary ! Several times the gun didn't work. I just put it straight down on the ledge and waited for the guy to check it for me. I did not try to fiddle with it at all.

Still wondering why live bullets of any description would be anywhere near a film set?
Why was firing a 9 MM scary?
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 18:34
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post

Still wondering why live bullets of any description would be anywhere near a film set?
Newspaper reports - which have given many and various differing explanations - say that target practice ( with the "killing gun " ) was conducted in down-time.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 21:47
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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A few things are becoming clear as the debate continues:
1) While there are general rules of firearms use there are places where the practice is different, eg. on film sets.
2) The general rules might be similar but the practice somewhat different depending on where you are. eg. On a range within a major city or on a ranch or film set far out in middle USA. Of course there will be people who say "Harrumph, there is only one way to handle firearms" but that is to deny what actually happens in practice.
3) While it looks as though the new armourer is going to be thrown under the bus, the problem might be that the original armourer had both live and dummy ammo stored in the same place and left without explicit explanation. (Admittedly per a Report, maybe rumour)
4)The new young lady armourer might be perfectly OK for a simple, from the start, gig. And how many of us at 24 who got the opportunity for a step up said "I'm not ready for this," and turned it down? Once on set she might have been out of her depth but reluctant or not have the authority to stop the filming to order in all new dummy ammo.(Admittedly Extrapolation of report)
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 22:29
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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TMZ may not be the most reliable news source in the world, but this is pretty damning:
https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-...rget-practice/
There's also this ... one source who was on set and familiar with the goings-on of the crew tells us that when cops showed up, they found live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area -- another possible explanation for how an actual bullet slipped got in the gun.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 23:01
  #53 (permalink)  
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ChrisVJ
Another thing I have not seen mentioned.
A lot of revolvers have open at the front cylinders. In that case, in the interest of realism, the gun would have to have (fake) bullets that look like the real thing for a POV shot. You could not load blanks, only cartridges with bullets (and no load) would do.
Time and again I see dramatic images of a revolver being aimed in anger - with no rounds in the viewable chambers. For me it spoils the realism but I assumed it was for safety reasons so just forget it. How come many big-budget films do this yet the tragedy occurred on a low-budget set?
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 00:12
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine firing a .45ACP 1911. Or a 500 S&W.

Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Why was firing a 9 MM scary?
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 00:16
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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If it can go wrong, it will go wrong. A hole in a safety system will eventually show upon, and it doesn't seem like there was much of one here in the first place.

If an armourer can't tell the difference between blanks and live ammunition then they shouldn't be doing the job.

I bet the lawyers are already circling.
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 03:42
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slfsfu View Post
ChrisVJ -"...It would be normal for the incoming armourer to expect dummy rounds in the kit. She might not know the previous guy had real rounds on set."

Sorry to disagree (violently!!!) - Anyone picking up a gun MUST IMMEDIATELY check for THEMSELVES that the
gun is unloaded. This is basic lesson No1 when handling firearms.
Lesson No 2 - NEVER, EVER point a gun at anyone.

What has happened is, in my mind, criminal negligence and should be punished as such.

SLFSFU
Shotgun qualified Range Safety Officer and Instructor.
See my previous post. Model/actor for sixteen years. Worked with guns, vintage cars, sports equipment and horses, maybe more I have forgotten about. The instructions from props depts always the same/ "I don't care what your experience is, just do exactly what I tell you. . . . . . . "

You want to stay on the job and get more work, you do what you are told unless you can see it is patently unsafe or illegal. That would not include playing with or checking a gun before "Action."

You have to rely on the professional advice you are given.

Edited to add.
From a strictly legal point of view: I I did what I was told I was covered. Were I to take any action other than that the liability might become mine!
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 09:23
  #57 (permalink)  
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You want to stay on the job and get more work, you do what you are told unless you can see it is patently unsafe or illegal. That would not include playing with or checking a gun before "Action."
And there I would disagree!

"I don't care what your experience is, just do exactly what I tell you. . . . . . . "
Likewise. When it would concern Firearms, I disagree! And I could not give a s**t how much experience any so-called Armorer had! In this instance, it is obvious that someone ******* up!

PtP: Qualified Range and Butts Officer Full Bore Rifle Shooting.
Qualified Range Officer; Sporting Shooters Association of Australia Affiliated Pistol Clubs.
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 09:35
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Why was firing a 9 MM scary?
Never used one before, only shotguns and air rifles. A lot of power from such a small cartridge !
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 10:31
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot View Post
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I, as everybody here do not know the exact circumstances of what happened.

You must always check a gun.

But what about if the gun is supposed to be "loaded"?

I mean, you are the range, in position, ready to shoot, you check your gun and is loaded (off course), what should you do?

If the gun was supposed to be loaded (with blanks), he checked it and it was loaded...
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Old 25th Oct 2021, 10:38
  #60 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Sam Asama View Post
Hmmm... Arizona?
Iíve been commuting that distance in U.K. every working day for the last twenty years and so far have avoided shooting my employer.

Not that I havenít been tempted, but not to do with how far Iíve had to commuteÖ..
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