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Accidental shooting

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Accidental shooting

Old 23rd Oct 2021, 13:32
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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There's the $64,000.00 question,
Alec Baldwin is a stanch anti gun activist.
Hollywood in general is anti gun.
And yet they make billions of dollars making movies depicting gun violence along with other forms of violence.

Hollywood and the majority of its members, is the epitome of hypocrisy.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 13:37
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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But UK drama producers are not much better. The UK is portrayed as a nation over run with violence, and a police force not afraid to use weapons.

Despite Donald Trump's claims that's not the case.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 14:03
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Why is the use of firearms pretty well obligatory in movies and TV?
It was a Western. You have seen Westerns ??
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 15:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Making a movie is no military operation, but must wonder: when using blanks in training we had shredders on the barrel crushing any possible debris/projectiles that may occur.
Why doesn't prop guns have that? Surely there are no reason in the wide world to use live ammunition in a prop gun, especially if the caliber is out-of-standard.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 15:27
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Geordie_Expat View Post
It was a Western. You have seen Westerns ??
As most might have just spotted my comment was about the film and TV industry generally, not this particular production
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 15:30
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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It is difficult for us to imagine what could have happened, but the culture in the U.S.A. is not as strict on firearms handling with the general public. I was surprised to hear, on a previous film set accident, that when complete rounds were required to be seen, such as close up of front of revolver or person seen loading, they used empty cases with bullets inserted, but left the primers in. Someone had pulled the trigger and the primer had fired the bullet into the barrel so when the blanks were loaded and the gun fired for the film scene, the bullet killed Mr Lee the actor. Holes in cheese 1, not clever to make up dummy rounds with live primers 2, whoever pulled the trigger should firstly have checked the gun was not loaded and on hearing the primer bang when unloading the dummies one should have been seen to be missing the bullet. 3, on loading the blanks the barrel should be checked for any obstruction, 4, surely the actor firing didn't need to aim at the other actor, no-one will notice if the gun is pointing slightly to one side.
On the current case, what was Baldwin doing playing around with the gun anyway?
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 16:24
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Problem here is because of many peoples’ backgrounds is the common assumption that the actor should have known better/should have checked/etc etc.

There’s interesting debate elsewhere (including one well known Army/ex Army forum), which includes contributions from a few who moved from the mil into entertainment industry, some as armourers. Many there are of the opinion that the buck stops with the prop master (?) /armourer who handed the weapon over…..
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 16:45
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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With a revolver, checking the rounds in the cylinder and inspecting the barrel is very simple for an armourer (prop master) doing the final check before handing over the weapon to the actor. And even for a layman it's rather simple. Hardly any chance of getting it wrong, compared to a pistol.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 17:29
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TWT View Post
Muzzle flashes and audio 'bangs' are frequently added later in post production. However, it just adds to the costs.
The sound of gun fire is enhanced in post production. It doesn't add to the cost, as this is standard practice when making films for the big screen, including big budget and the smaller budget films.

When filmed/recorded and with no post, gunshots sound like a bit of a damp squib, hence most everything one hears in a film has been added or enhanced during post production.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 19:25
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Way back when I was in high school, my math (Geometry) teacher accidentally shot his brother. They had both been part of one of those teams that does old west 'fast draw' shootouts for exhibitions and the like.
His brother had moved out of town but had come back for a visit - and decided they should have a 'shootout' for old times sake. His brother loaded up the revolvers, they faced each other about about 20 ft., and did a 'quick draw'.
My teacher said he'd fired a few rounds when suddenly his brother was laying on the ground, and there was all this red stuff on the far wall . In addition to the blank rounds, my teacher had some 'target' rounds - which have a flat face rather than the normal bullet tip so they punch a clean hole in the target - and look rather like a blank round if you don't look too close, and one of the target rounds had somehow gotten mixed in with the blank rounds.
Miraculously, the bullet did a through and through of his brother without hitting anything important and his brother survived with a relatively minor wound. Because his brother survived and could tell the police that he'd been the one that loaded the guns, my teacher didn't get charged - otherwise I'm sure he would have spent significant time in prison (he said he got a nasty grilling by the police before they talked to his brother in the hospital - he said 'you know that scene in the movies with the suspect sitting in a dark room with a single light shinning in his face while the police question him? It's true!)

I can't help but wonder is something similar happened here.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 19:41
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fourteenbore View Post
On the current case, what was Baldwin doing playing around with the gun anyway?
Might be something to do with the fact that he was an actor in a Western being filmed.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 19:43
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When I saw this news story, my thoughts went immediately to the tragic death on a movie set of Bruce Lee's son Brandon.
He was shot, by accident, by a "prop gun." I then had a look up; that happened in 1993.
As someone up thread noted: preflight your weapon.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 19:55
  #33 (permalink)  
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When filmed/recorded and with no post, gunshots sound like a bit of a damp squib, hence most everything one hears in a film has been added or enhanced during post production.
Exactly, that's my experience. And if you want to be 100% safe and use props with no flash or bang then you can add them in post, but it can take a while
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 21:38
  #34 (permalink)  
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I hope it wasn’t one of the aggrieved members on set that planted a real bullet to make a point about safety.

One of the points of contention was that some members of the crew weren’t given hotel rooms in Santa Fe but had to drive 50 miles each day from Albuquerque, which seems skinflint on behalf of the production staff. Mind you, there isn’t much traffic on many roads in Arizona, but it is still a long commute.

Edited to change to New Mexico. D’oh!

Last edited by visibility3miles; 25th Oct 2021 at 04:05.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 21:54
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Might be something to do with the fact that he was an actor in a Western being filmed.
Doesn't explain it really. Because I don't think shooting a crew member was in the film script, so I wonder if he was fooling around with the pistol.
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 22:02
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Various possibilities have been mentioned (well they certainly have elsewhere) as to the supposed geometry/rationale that led to the cinematographer and the director being literally in the line of fire, such as somebody wanting a shot “down the barrel” or close to it (there’s probably a technical term for it).
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Old 23rd Oct 2021, 23:13
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of people saying that anyone would or should check the gun as soon as given it.

Generally on set an armourer would hand the actor a gun and tell him not to touch anything except what what was required by the shot. Many think actors (or most of them) are idiots.

"Don't play with it, don't open it, don't look down the barrel, don't point it in the air and don't pull the trigger until the director calls action. And don't ever point it at anyone unless the scene requires it."

Personally watching those "from the victim" shots always makes me feel uncomfortable.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 01:06
  #38 (permalink)  
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Never, EVER, point a gun AT anyone for any reason. If the producer says it doesn't look real, take from a different angle. If the actors can't control the weapon so that the barrel doesn't maintain a close angle, it can't look very real anyway.
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Old 24th Oct 2021, 01:52
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Five rules of firearm safety:

​​​​​​

1. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FIREARM POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION.


2. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY WERE LOADED.


3. KEEP YOUR TRIGGER FINGER OUTSIDE THE GUARD AND OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.


4. BE CERTAIN OF YOUR TARGET, YOUR LINE OF FIRE, AND WHAT LIES BEYOND YOUR TARGET.


5. ALWAYS WEAR APPROPRIATE EYE AND EAR PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING AND MAINTAINING YOUR FIREARM.


Having said that though, you do wonder how a loaded firearm managed to make it onto a film set. In future it might be required to have qualified people in attendance when ever firearms or replicas are used in filming unless it's an obvious training aid such as this.



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Old 24th Oct 2021, 02:05
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Another thing I have not seen mentioned.
A lot of revolvers have open at the front cylinders. In that case, in the interest of realism, the gun would have to have (fake) bullets that look like the real thing for a POV shot. You could not load blanks, only cartridges with bullets (and no load) would do.
Of course there should be no live ammo on set, however apparently one crew left the set and another took over within hours. It would be normal for the incoming armourer to expect dummy rounds in the kit. She might not know the previous guy had real rounds on set. There would be no apparent difference between dummy and real rounds unless the previous armourer had marked them with a difference on which he did not brief the replacement.
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