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Afghanistan Withdrawal

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Afghanistan Withdrawal

Old 12th Aug 2021, 13:47
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Afghanistan Withdrawal

I really despair at the direction of travel of Afghanistan. After 20 years the relatively stabilising force of the USA and NATO are withdrawing and as we have seen on the news the Taliban are back in resurgence.
Despite the wealth of evidence, very little seems to be printed or said in our mainstream media that this is all about crime and drug running. The Pakistani and Iranian cartels are no different from Pablo Escobar and what went on in Columbia. Have we not learnt the lessons. The NATO/USA intervention dealt primarily with the terrorist element but has singularly failed to recognise that this is about dealing with powerful cartels who use the cover of Islam as a front for their criminal activities. We have abandoned these poor people to more decades of abuse.

We will see the impact of this neglect of our duty in more drugs and crime on our streets along with more terrorism. I cannot find the reference but I seem to recall Tony Blair or someone else, saying 'we will not let you down again'. What shame
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 14:01
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Britain has been involved in Afghanistan on and off since before the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War. in the 1840's. We've always failed to stabilise it and lost much blood in the process. The Russians, US and UN have all similarly failed.

Perhaps it's time now to finally just leave them to it.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 14:13
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Serious question... did anybody NOT see what would happen if the US (mainly) withdrew? What will be the trigger point for the NEXT need for a 'mission accomplished' moment?
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 14:31
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Perhaps it's time now to finally just leave them to it.
That is indeed one viewpoint and presumably the same one the USA is taking however, much like Columbia, leaving them to it will not work as it will impact on all of us.

There is plenty of evidence out there that the Taliban (not necessarily Afghanistan) affects us and it is that group that needs to be targetted.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data..._route_web.pdf

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov....ug-trafficking

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...1SPRT51521.htm

John Kerry's words are prescient

The administration is several months into
its ambitious new strategy in Afghanistan, and we are seeing
the first effects of the increases in military and civilian
resources. One of the emerging changes is on counter-narcotics
policy. In the past, our emphasis was on eradication. Today, we
are focused for the first time on breaking the link between the
narcotics trade and the Taliban and other militant groups. To
accomplish that important goal, the administration and our
military commanders have made targeting major drug traffickers
who help finance the Taliban a priority for U.S. troops. In
addition, a new intelligence center to analyze the flow of drug
money to the Taliban and corrupt Afghan officials is beginning
operations and plans are under way to create an interagency
task force to pursue drug networks. The attached report
represents the findings of research conducted by the committee
staff in Afghanistan, the United Arab Emirates and the United
States. The report describes the implementation of the new
counter-narcotics strategy and offers recommendations. We also
hope that the report will provide new impetus for a national
debate on the risks and rewards associated with our increasing
commitment to the war in Afghanistan.
I hope the USA, NATO and of course those Politicians in Pakistan with a better moral compass, have an alternative strategy to deal with the problem at source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawood_Ibrahim
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/77701493.cms
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 14:38
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I see it as not enough boots on the ground at the end of the day, having little compounds of troops means you can't control squat, ohh you can send patrols out etc, but all you really control in an area closely surrounding the compounds and often not even that.
There was a TV interview some years back with a US officer ensconced in his little compound and he summed it up perfectly. He was guarding a section of vital highway, prior to the base being set up there had been no trouble nor IED's in the area, since they set up the base and patrolled the road, there were lots of IED attacks and taliban attacks on his men, asked what he thought the solution was he said close the base and it would revert back to being quiet with no trouble.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 14:49
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I agree about not enough boots on the ground but I think your comment is a bit incorrect and misinformed stereotypes what was a multifaceted operation and does not do justice, particularly to the large contingent of the US Marine Corps who had roving patrols in the south that cut many of the supply lines and severely disrupted the narcotics trade.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 15:13
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Britain has been involved in Afghanistan on and off since before the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War. in the 1840's. We've always failed to stabilise it and lost much blood in the process. The Russians, US and UN have all similarly failed.

Perhaps it's time now to finally just leave them to it.
I recall just after the USA / UK dived headlong into Afghanistan at the behest of another not overly bright Republican President (Dubya) on the pretext that Afghanistan, and moreover the Taliban, were responsible for the attacks on 11 September one Mr Gorbachev pointed out that the British has tried and failed, the Russians had tried and failed, and there was little prospect of "The West" collectively taming the unruly, tribal, and largely ungovernable failed state which was / is Afghanistan.

I just feel so sorry for the families of those service people from all the foreign nations involved in the Afghanistan adventure who have quite needlessly lost loved ones, and for the hundreds, perhaps thousands of participants who have returned home minus limbs and / or psychologically damaged long term, or worse, permanently. Western (NATO largely) governments need to think long and hard before getting involved in pointless wars - attempts at regime change really - that risk service peoples lives. They need to remember that by and large service people are no professionals, not conscripted cannon-fodder and I feel sure that most who join up don't do so to meddle on countries far away, but to protect their own countries. Recruitment will become far more difficult when young people think about a career in the military then recall how time and again their forbears had been used in the way that troops have been in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya - all pretty well to no avail.

There are echoes of the disorderly exit of the USA from Vietnam, though the negotiations with the enemy in that case were probably rather more meaningful than the charade that has gone on, and is probably still going on in Qatar.

I don't buy the idea that the Taliban is rampaging though Afghanistan without a goodly rump of support (probably from people living outside the principal cities and towns), it simply doesn't add up. It seems as though perhaps the male of the species rather liked the situation where they had total control over the lives of women from cradle to grave, and using them just as breeding machines and skivvies. I feel for the more enlightened people in the big cities who probably hate the idea of the return of the Taliban, ending their freedom to dress and live more as they wish, and to get an education and job. Those are the people we have royally shat on.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 15:38
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Britain has been involved in Afghanistan on and off since before the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Afghan_War. in the 1840's. We've always failed to stabilise it and lost much blood in the process. The Russians, US and UN have all similarly failed.

Perhaps it's time now to finally just leave them to it.
A laudable idea on some levels but if course you would not have to care how they conduct their internal affairs, which gives a new depth of meaning to the expression "unenlightened".

Putting that aside for a moment, we will now have a state given over to Islamic militancy, terrorism and drug production to finance these. It will also be an ideal candidate to act as a proxy for other states that wish their enemies harm, for which no doubt they will be supplied and financed. By enemies, I suspect we are looking in most directions of the compass rather than just the West.

So how long before one or more other countries finds the existence of an independent Taliban ruled Afghanistan intolerable?
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 15:59
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
So how long before one or more other countries finds the existence of an independent Taliban ruled Afghanistan intolerable?
Which other countries have the resources to tame Afghanistan, after all the others have failed?
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 16:37
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Which other countries have the resources to tame Afghanistan, after all the others have failed?
Who knows? It may even be a coalition of countries. Demonstrably it hasn't stopped countries trying in the past. Politicians are not only masters of self delusion but sometimes also need a cause to rally support at home. Ultimately, any area/country that is perceived as being a threat will be attacked, given sufficient provocation. Consider the war on ISIS as another example.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 18:21
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Don’t worry global warming will eventually fry them.

I wonder what a secondhand Afghan Blackhawk goes for in the Pakistani Bazzar’s, one careful fleeing owner and family.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 18:33
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
Who knows? It may even be a coalition of countries. Demonstrably it hasn't stopped countries trying in the past. Politicians are not only masters of self delusion but sometimes also need a cause to rally support at home. Ultimately, any area/country that is perceived as being a threat will be attacked, given sufficient provocation. Consider the war on ISIS as another example.
But every country that might have had a go has tried and failed. Who would you nominate to have the next go?
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 18:50
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Unfortunately in two weeks time we will be receiving Afghan's by the boatload across the channel.

Must be China's turn to have a go they have a good Muslim track record.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 19:33
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British troops are back.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-to-dep...itons-12379951
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 19:49
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
But every country that might have had a go has tried and failed. Who would you nominate to have the next go?
If I was that clever I would be rich. Is there any rule about repeats? Could they fall out with Iran? China tries to buy its way in then gets rejected?
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 20:43
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As long as there are locals to join the Taliban for $100 a month and junkies to hoover up the cheap drugs
this will continue.
Bombing them back to the Stone Age won’t work as that’s where they want to be.
Better the West save its money for the refugees and drug treatment clinics.
its sad but true,
i hope some of the progressive thinkers in Afghanistan can escape this mess.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 21:34
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It brings to mind the old adage, "You have the watches, we have the time," – an Afghan proverb, but some Western analysts have credited it to the Taliban.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 21:47
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I do like the one in the military thread, arm all the women.
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Old 12th Aug 2021, 22:51
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Due to the mountainous terrain and porous borders, no one can totally control the country. The people are tough combatants and aren’t bothered by the hardship of war, similar to the North Vietnamese. Younger ones weren’t even born when the USA first invaded and have known nothing but war all their lives.

The country has real potential if it could solve its internal problems, but realistically it will remain a failed state similar to Somalia.



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Old 13th Aug 2021, 01:53
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A top Taliban delegation was entertained by the Chinese government late last month. The new reality?
https://gandhara.rferl.org/a/taliban.../31380951.html
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