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NHS, GM

Old 6th Jul 2021, 12:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen View Post
I am speechless! Well, almost. In all the many years that Her Majesty has been on the throne, and before that, I have not known her to put even so much as a toe wrong. Until now.

I can imagine who suggested that she award the George Medal to "our" NHS but I'm astonished that those who advise her did not immediately scotch the ridiculous notion. To so diminish the acts of the likes of Maurice Griffiths, James Harries, John Inglis, Hugh Syme and almost two thousand others by making this award to those, who for the most part were only doing the job for which they are paid, is a shameful act. Certainly, there were many at the coalface of the Covid response who performed marvellously and there is no reason why their exceptional performances should not be recognised, but to bestow this honour instituted by her father upon "our" NHS - a failing institution - is to substantially lessen the value and prestige of the George Medal which, up to now, has been issued only in respect of acts of outstanding bravery. I do not regard the GM as at all appropriate in these circumstances and feel that the merits of past recipients have been demeaned by this overtly political act.

I now expect Pratt Hancock to be made Lord Protector.
Well, its good that you came at this with an open mind and free of agenda! 🙄
I, frankly find it despicable that you or anyone else considers the NHS a failing institution. A remark like that is an insult to the thousands of staff that have suffered incredible hardship over the last 18 months. Many have died doing their job others have been left suffering with the after effects of 'long covid'. The gentlemen you have quoted no doubt deserve their awards but they are in good company with the NHS. I would be humbled to be classed as worthy as the NHS not insulted, maybe they would feel the same.
Its not a competition.

Edit
Anyone having experience of health care regimes in other developed economies will easily recognise the NHS as the national disgrace that it is.
I have experienced it. Expensive, slow and no better than the NHS. Profit for pain.
The only National disgrace here is you.
Enjoy your pension, those NHS staff dieing saving lives won't be enjoying theirs.
I have nothing but contempt for you.

Last edited by TURIN; 6th Jul 2021 at 12:19.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 12:23
  #22 (permalink)  

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Having undoubtedly had my life saved by the NHS last year (very serious non Covid ailment), in the middle of the pandemic, despite their very obvious lack of resources and huge pressure, I find it difficult not to despise those who call it a failing institution.

I’m overdue a follow up appointment but thanks to the NHS staff at least I’m still here.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 13:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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The GPs were sitting on their backsides throughout lockdown and refusing to see patients personally, either in a surgery or at home. So my 96-year old MiL - and numerous other old people - had no contact with her doctor who would have detected her deteriorating physical and mental condition. "Problem with your leg? Send me a photograph on your smartphone." Really practical for someone with developing dementia! The weather was fine enough to have sat outside in the front garden, socially distanced; and the optician was able to attend her at home, duly masked and sanitised. And at least all the NHS staff had steady employment. Just saying.

2 s
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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For some balance, our GPs were hard to see in person but the the delay for a non urgent appointement was only a few days and I did get a face-to-face as a result Howvever, I did see them pumping out jabs like there was no tomorrow at the nearest vaccination centre, in conjunction with several other practices.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 18:09
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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We had frequent GP home visits for my Mother last year during the first lockdown as she deteriorated to her end (non-covid). So to tar all GPs and practices the same is really showing your prejudice.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 20:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2 sheds View Post
The GPs were sitting on their backsides throughout lockdown and refusing to see patients personally, either in a surgery or at home.
The Queen's announcement said “It is with great pleasure, on behalf of a grateful nation, that I award the George Cross to the National Health Services of the United Kingdom. This award recognises all NHS staff, past and present, across all disciplines and all four nations."

This seems to exclude GPs - they are not NHS employees - they are independent contractors.

Maybe Brenda had trouble getting a face-to-face appointment too - so decided to leave them out?
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 20:54
  #27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Trust me sunshine, I feel VERY strongly about the NHS ..and those who choose to denigrate it.!
Evidently!

You and your sympathisers may feel as strongly as you like, but it will not alter the facts. A substantial amount of the suffering which has attended the Covid epidemic has been occasioned by the NHS being totally ill-prepared - it was woefully ill-prepared for much of its normal activities before the arrival of the virus and its many failures since have rendered the institution less than fit for its intended purpose. Vide the scandalous behaviour of so many GPs (who may not be NHS employees but since most of them practise under the NHS umbrella, in effect they are) - not what Clement Atlee envisaged at all. The government generally, and Hancock particularly, in exhorting us to "protect the NHS", have tacitly acknowledged the existence of fundamental problems with a body supposedly for the protection of the public, not the reverse.

Regrettably, it is people suffering such political myopia who will continue to view the NHS as a collective sainthood (and be unduly censorious of those able to see beyond the emperor's new clothes), who will prove an impediment to that reformation so desperately needed to restore the institution to the position of eminence it once had and, with the proper support (as opposed to blind adulation) could be again. But, of course, it won't happen, at least not under the present government and whilst the so-called Opposition has no-one having the necessary cojones for the job. But enormous amounts of public money will continue to be thrown at the problem in pretence of effecting a solution. Plus ça change and all that.
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Old 6th Jul 2021, 21:23
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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GQ - Since you clearly feel very strongly about the matter, perhaps you would please be kind enough to amend your original post, and the title if that can be arranged, to indicate that the award in question is the GC and not the GM.

Jack
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 06:05
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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GQ
I have experienced the NHS obviously, and the German Bismarck Health Care System here in Germany, the private system in Chile when growing up there, the state system in Vietnam which will look after you, but will charge as there is no reciprocal arrangement with the NHS. Thankfully all my experience's were for minor ailments, and all were good. However I ironically received an e-mail from an old friend last night who is living in the USA, and unfortunately has developed potential Prostrate Cancer and is having to have a biopsy undertaken. The cost of this including the pre MRI and CT scan has come to a little over £17000, which will have to be paid before procedure is undertaken. This will be covered by his medical insurance that he gets through his work (specialist toxicologist), but otherwise he would, like others not so fortunate have to cover this on insurance. As he is getting towards the end of his career that free cover will run out, at the potential time when he may need that care most, and will then after pay into a health care scheme from his pension. On balance therefore I would say the NHS is badly run but does its best, and perhaps is operating out side the lines of primary care upon which it was set up. I struggle to see why elective surgery for cosmetic / mental health reasons for example should be carried out on the NHS. Also I would agree the NHS / BMA should have better admission of their faults (We had an experience with a drain being left in my wife,s leg after a hit and run for 6 months, until we persuaded the surgeon to re X Ray !!! - God and orthopedic surgeon joke here, God knows he is not an Orthopedic surgeon !! ). However the private system in the US is also massively expensive insurance wise, and potentially can leave you at the end of your life uncovered. The half way house is the system here in Germany which seems to work quite well in my own limited experience, and that of my staff.

Cheers
Mr Mac

Last edited by Mr Mac; 11th Jul 2021 at 06:22.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 06:16
  #30 (permalink)  
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https://www.nhsconfed.org/news/new-h...-vital-reforms

New health secretary urged to press on with the NHS Bill or risk derailing vital reforms

The new Secretary of State has been warned that any delay to the publication of the forthcoming Health and Care Bill before Parliament’s summer recess risks derailing critical elements of the Government’s NHS reforms.

The Bill had been expected in the last week of June, but it is now unclear when it will be published, leaving just three weeks to go before Parliament closes for the summer and when the Bill would need to be by tabled by in order to have its second reading.

In a letter to Sajid Javid, the NHS Confederation, which represents the whole health system in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, has warned that any delays beyond mid-July will mean that key aspects of the reforms will not be ready before integrated care systems (ICSs) are timetabled to become statutory bodies in April 2022.

The leaders of ICSs, which the NHS Confederation represents, are concerned that any delays will distract from their real purpose of focusing on population health and delivering effective integration across the NHS and social care, widely supported elements of the Government’s reforms…….
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:23
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I was diagnosed with Benign Essential Tremors earlier this year. While they decided what drugs to try, it was pointed out that such tremors generally respond well to an alcoholic drink and a generous couple of glasses of Gin and It or Gin and French before dinner would help.... They were quite correct!

An alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor.....
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:35
  #32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
GQ - Since you clearly feel very strongly about the matter, perhaps you would please be kind enough to amend your original post, and the title if that can be arranged, to indicate that the award in question is the GC and not the GM.

Jack
Yes Jack - you are right. The GC takes precedence over the GM, both being reserved for civilian acts of bravery. Obviously by 'GC', I meant the 'George Cross', not 'Good Conduct'. In my view, it is doubtful if the NHS should qualify for even that!

But to amend my original post would be to introduce more confusion since the people mentioned were recipients of the Medal, not the Cross. So I shall have to content myself with acknowledging my mistake with apology.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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For the avoidance of doubt I do not despise someone who holds a different opinion to me. That, of course, would be detrimental to democracy and common decency.
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Old 7th Jul 2021, 13:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.nhsconfed.org/news/new-h...-vital-reforms

New health secretary urged to press on with the NHS Bill or risk derailing vital reforms

The new Secretary of State has been warned that any delay to the publication of the forthcoming Health and Care Bill before Parliament’s summer recess risks derailing critical elements of the Government’s NHS reforms.

The Bill had been expected in the last week of June, but it is now unclear when it will be published, leaving just three weeks to go before Parliament closes for the summer and when the Bill would need to be by tabled by in order to have its second reading.

In a letter to Sajid Javid, the NHS Confederation, which represents the whole health system in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, has warned that any delays beyond mid-July will mean that key aspects of the reforms will not be ready before integrated care systems (ICSs) are timetabled to become statutory bodies in April 2022.

The leaders of ICSs, which the NHS Confederation represents, are concerned that any delays will distract from their real purpose of focusing on population health and delivering effective integration across the NHS and social care, widely supported elements of the Government’s reforms…….
Didn't Boris say he had a plan ready to go just after the last election?
https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-united-kingdom-social-care-plan-missing/
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-social-care-overhaul-330459

"Who knew heathcare could be so difficult?" - Donald Trump
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 19:14
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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In this thread, as in life, people seem to conflate the NHS with the medical profession. They are not the same thing. The difference is the admin and funding model, and it's that which needs attention.
A criticism of the NHS - of which I have plenty - is not (necessarily) a criticism of the medical staff it employs. However the performance of those staff is often sub-optimised by the structural and administrative requirements of the NHS. As a former employer I am shocked that nurses at my local hospital routinely work 14-hour shifts; they can't possibly perform at their best after such a long duty - and that's the fault of the NHS not the nurses.
The adulation of the NHS is led by politicians who should know better, but who lack the cojones to address its many shortcomings. Labour MPs are locked in their 1948 nirvana, and Tories are fearful of the charge of "selling off the family silver" - neither are forward-looking.
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 19:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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My partner officially does 12 hour shifts. However she has to hand over at the end of every shift. That usually lasts an hour and is always unpaid. As a thank you for the work she’s done of the last year she got an NHS badge rainbow badge. I dread to think what the management consultants who designed it got paid.
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 23:56
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LGS6753 View Post
In this thread, as in life, people seem to conflate the NHS with the medical profession. They are not the same thing. The difference is the admin and funding model, and it's that which needs attention.
A criticism of the NHS - of which I have plenty - is not (necessarily) a criticism of the medical staff it employs. However the performance of those staff is often sub-optimised by the structural and administrative requirements of the NHS. As a former employer I am shocked that nurses at my local hospital routinely work 14-hour shifts; they can't possibly perform at their best after such a long duty - and that's the fault of the NHS not the nurses.
The adulation of the NHS is led by politicians who should know better, but who lack the cojones to address its many shortcomings. Labour MPs are locked in their 1948 nirvana, and Tories are fearful of the charge of "selling off the family silver" - neither are forward-looking.
I can't help but agree with you on this, however the OP has taken a dirty great swipe at the NHS, and in so doing has just thrown more petrol on the fire for those wishing to demolish it.
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Old 10th Jul 2021, 16:26
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I have use the NHS right through through the pandemic, 6-8 weeks appointments.
What is notable is that the consultants have disappeared and been replaced by nurses.
Local surgery similar. in my opinion the people who miss out on thanks are all the people
who deliver stuff we need. Lorry drivers, supermarket drivers, and even Amazon & the like.
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Old 10th Jul 2021, 22:12
  #39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I can't help but agree with you on this, however the OP has taken a dirty great swipe at the NHS, and in so doing has just thrown more petrol on the fire for those wishing to demolish it.
Turin, you really should try to see things with a degree of objectivity greater than is allowed by the distortions of the prism through which you currently are viewing things. Nobody, least of all myself, has suggested demolishing the NHS. It is a noble concept and has been a fine institution. It continues to employ first class people in many capacities, but it also employs far too many hangers-on who absorb a disproportionate amount of the budget. I think LGS6753 has summarised things rather well and I agree with his views. Whilst living abroad, principally in the US, I have known situations similar to those described by Mr Mac - nothing is perfect. But it has to be remembered that health care generally and surgery in particular have progressed beyond anything that could have been envisaged in 1948. Increased sophistications have brought exponential increases in cost and the choice of elective procedures has brought further burden, some of which, as has been suggested, should be well outside the remit of a national health service which is for the benefit of those demonstrably ill; not for those who, for example, think they might prefer being one of the several different genders currently on offer. The NHS itself and an army of third rate carboard cut-outs masquerading as politicians needlessly have muddied the waters.

So, progress being what it is, we have an NHS which in 1975 had 8 beds available for every 1,000 of the population; "our" NHS currently has as many as 1,8 beds for the same number of people. Given the extraordinary increase in the population numbers of the last 30 years, this is an astonishing statistic and terrible indictment of those whose dilatoriness has led to this lamentable situation. I remember, some fifty years ago, one usually could walk straight into a doctor's surgery and if necessary, a hospital stay would be arranged within a week. At the moment, the former is but a dream and "our" NHS has more than an estimated 10,000,000 queueing for help. What could be more worthy of a GC than a record like that?


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