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UFOs... real or nonsense

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UFOs... real or nonsense

Old 21st Apr 2021, 13:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Last I heard was that there are typically 10^10 stars in a typical galaxy and there are approximately the same number of galaxies so that's a lot of stars. However time is important, how many instances of life are there now, but given the distances and speed of light, what does now even mean? If the time between making a call and receiving a reply greatly exceeds the lifespan of an ecological system, does it matter?
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Old 21st Apr 2021, 13:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
I remember reading about a team of scientists who were communicating with a very large alien spaceship, Pictures were being exchanged of the various parts of the ship, their labs and the base.

After some negotiations, it was decided that the aliens would land in a deserted and barren part of Nevada. The scientists moved quickly across the ground towards the landing point and in the process the leader stepped on a small pebble sized object...

IG

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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 06:13
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Why does everyone continue to apply today's earth science to a complete unknown? Throughout history that has proved to be wrong. Man did not suffocate above 18mph! So to keep harping on about distances being so great, time (measured here??? What?) civilizations existing at the same time etc. all means nothing. You have to think outside of the box. That means ANYTHING may be possible. A fish in a bowl thinks that the entire universe is within his bowl. I like to think I am not that fish.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 06:44
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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OK, so Kelly reckons travelling at Warp Speed is possible, so the advanced civilizations can pop out of a wormhole at will to visit us. But how do they know we are here? Our signals have only covered a distance of maybe 110 light years, which limits how many other systems have even seen the switchboard light up with our call. By the time the signals reach one of the billions of intelligent lifeforms out there, in a million years, humans will not be here to greet them on arrival.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 06:51
  #45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper View Post
Why does everyone continue to apply today's earth science to a complete unknown?

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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 06:56
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post

And yet many stories and videos of UFO's appear to do just that.

Last edited by Kelly Hopper; 22nd Apr 2021 at 07:20.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 07:37
  #47 (permalink)  
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As do magicians
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 08:18
  #48 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
I remember reading about a team of scientists who were communicating with a very large alien spaceship, Pictures were being exchanged of the various parts of the ship, their labs and the base.

After some negotiations, it was decided that the aliens would land in a deserted and barren part of Nevada. The scientists moved quickly across the ground towards the landing point and in the process the leader stepped on a small pebble sized object...

IG
There was a TV advert with a similar theme not too long ago; except the aliens were threatening but tiny.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 12:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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If intelligent alien life came to visit Earth I guess their first words would be "Could all the wokes please leave the room."
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 12:44
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Ascent C...

Thanks mate.. you just proved my point...

You only look at this as per planet Earth understanding. How can you possibly apply Earth logic to the Universe? I never stated that warp speed was obtainable. But that is the only way YOU can understand how to cross huge distances. I would suggest there may be other ways? Ways we don't know? Space and time are inter-related. Even with our extremely limited understanding we can see a corrolation. To my knowledge no aliens went to my school and learned what I learned, or watched the TV I watched, or read the books that I read yet you think all those rules apply elsewhere? Why would you think that?

Your 2nd comment is even more ignorant to me... We may have been "looked at" millions of Earth years ago. That may be a week elsewhere? Aliens may be 1 inch tall or 100 ft tall, they may live an Earth Day or a billion Earth years? All of this is possible. But you insist on applying Earth rules to situations you know nothing about? That is really ignorant and arrogant, don't you think?

Open your mind to a whole new universe? We discover amazing things about the cosmos every day. Things that make no sense to us. We are truly infants in a universe ity!

Last edited by Kelly Hopper; 22nd Apr 2021 at 13:11.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 13:20
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Here we go again. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is "ignorant and arrogant". Really grown up discussion stance - NOT.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 13:48
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Geordie_Expat View Post
Here we go again. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is "ignorant and arrogant". Really grown up discussion stance - NOT.
That is not what I am sayin and you know it!

I won't rise to your arguement.

Earth psysics is not universe psysics. How difficult is that?
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 13:51
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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You can take two points of view with this:

1. Assume the laws of physics as we understand them apply across the known Universe. If you do this, intelligent extraterrestrial life in other galaxies is so distant that it's effectively irrelevant whether or not it exists. Intelligent extraterrestrial life in this galaxy may exist, but we've only been emitting radio signals for ~120 years, so it's impossible for anything more than 60 light years away to have replied and for us to have received their reply. Interstellar travel appears to require huge resources, so the chances of another civilisation visiting us just to take the p*ss, insert anal probes etc are infinitesimal. Occam's razor tells us that the most likely explanation for weird occurrences is something straightforward that doesn't involve small green beings from another planet.

2. Assume the laws of physics as we understand them are wrong or don't apply to other parts of the Universe. If they apply locally (within 60 light years) you're back to (1) above. If our laws of physics are just plain wrong, it's not even worth having a discussion as there's no meaningful framework for that discussion. It's impossible to say whether extra-terrestrial teasers with anal probes are any more or less likely than lizard overbeings, volcanoes filled with nuclear weapons, or anything else you care to dream up.

As for UFOs - as far as I'm concerned, they definitely exist; I saw two on Sunday. When I got closer, one resolved itself into a buzzard, the other a Schempp-Hirth Discus.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 14:16
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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It's not easy to have these dicussion with you guys....

Your point of view is that to go from A to B we have the choice of car, train, walk, or aircraft?

Yes, that is what we know of transport. A tiny amount of Earth time ago there was no car, train or aircarft. Walkj was the only way to go from A to B.

But you insist that flying through space at 28000mph is it? Is it? I suggest that 100 years from here you will be laughed at. And 100 years is nothing.

So do I have the answers? No i do not. But I have seen things that defy explanation. Do I beleive in extraterrestials visiting us? Hmmm... Possibly? There is substantial evidence and there is increasing evidence from government sources. So maybe the truth will be out in a few years? I hope so.

Whether it's a big yes or a disappinting no I will still live in the concept that there are so many things we simply do not know. But to dismiss it for lack of understanding is utterly stupid!






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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 14:25
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Or... to put it bluntly...

"if it doesn't connect with my understanding it doesn't exist"

Now that is arrogant?
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 14:46
  #56 (permalink)  
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I agree that this discussion is being framed in the terms of what we know/have experienced rather than what could possibly be

We think of ourselves as an advanced civilization, but maybe we're more like Neanderthals with many more things yet to learn. Imagine trying to tell them that (i) there were other living beings thousands of miles away (ii) that the weather there was so different that their landscape was a desert and explaining what a desert was and (iii) telling them that some day they'd be able to get there - when at this time the only thing they did was walk. It's possible that some of those people hadn't even seen the sea


Personally I find it fascinating that all bets are off when it comes to extra terrestrial life. I still don't know why scientists are so happy when they find water or Goldilocks planets - as if those are requirements for life to exist. OUR life maybe, but then again, look at fish - they require a completely different environment, one that will quickly kill us as ours will them. I think it's even possible for life to exist without corporeal bodies. Why not?
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 15:17
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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You can either use our current best understanding of science to help understand the World around us and to help understand whether a particular event is like to happen, or you can choose not to.

If you choose to accept that anything is possible, that's fine, but what's the point of discussing or trying to understand anything? Why try to suggest that those lights in the sky might be aliens when they could equally well be supersonic penguins? Or clowns?
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 15:56
  #58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper View Post
Earth psysics is not universe psysics. How difficult is that?
I don't know the answer to that one but one thing I do know is that the laws of physics apply equally everywhere in the universe. For example, the spectral absorption lines in light emitted by stars hundreds of millions of light years away are identical to those produced here in the lab on planet earth.
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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 16:10
  #59 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! View Post
Personally I find it fascinating that all bets are off when it comes to extra terrestrial life. I still don't know why scientists are so happy when they find water or Goldilocks planets - as if those are requirements for life to exist. OUR life maybe, but then again, look at fish - they require a completely different environment, one that will quickly kill us as ours will them. I think it's even possible for life to exist without corporeal bodies. Why not?
You and I share 99 percent of our DNA with fish as we are descended from them. We and most forms of life that we know, rely on protein being soluble in water so our environments are closer than you think. We breath oxygen dissolved in nitrogen instead of dissolved in water and many fish can breath air taken in gulps e.g. mudskippers and catfish. Liquid water is a prerequisite for earthbound life but liquid methane could work elsewhere, who knows. As the laws of physics (and therefore chemistry) are universal, the optimal conditions for life may also be universal but exceptions may be possible.

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Old 22nd Apr 2021, 17:05
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Science provides constraints such as the conservation of this, that and the other. Once you go beyond what you know and beyond the framework of reality as you are able to understand it, there are no limits and you are free to believe in anything including Star Trek physics and other forms of magic.
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