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Suez canal blocked

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Suez canal blocked

Old 29th Mar 2021, 18:00
  #281 (permalink)  
 
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If you think the Suez Canal is narrow; look at the Panama Canal locks.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 18:09
  #282 (permalink)  
 
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I’m trained and licensed to operate large aircraft into Airports with 30 metre width runways (instead of the normal 45 metres). What training (if any) or simulation facilities of adverse weather conditions do the Masters of these vessels have in order to navigate the Suez canal safely?
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 18:19
  #283 (permalink)  
 
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The Master has overall control and the Suez Pilots 'advise' but its the Master that giver the orders to the helmsman etc.
Sure there will be a inquiry but I think the short answer till something better comes along will be Tug Boats fore and aft depending on the ships size.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 18:26
  #284 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nightstop View Post
I’m trained and licensed to operate large aircraft into Airports with 30 metre width runways (instead of the normal 45 metres). What training (if any) or simulation facilities of adverse weather conditions do the Masters of these vessels have in order to navigate the Suez canal safely?
Isn't that the reason that they have specialist Suez/Panama/whatever canal pilots who take over and to some extent indemnify the ships from liability during their transit ? I suppose the only near equivalent at an unfamiliar airport would be the 'Follow Me' wagon and the ATC control tower overseeing the ground movements.

A ship the size/tonnage of Ever Given would be charged about £180,000 for the Suez transit, which should pay for quite a bit of service. No wonder the Egyptian's were pushing for the unloading of the containers a few days ago, they've lost a lot of revenue.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 19:29
  #285 (permalink)  
 
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Mother-in-law has been desperately trying to buy Easter cards, she left it too late so desperately had to try all over, one shop said to her "sorry madam were out of stock as they are stuck in the Suez canal".
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 19:38
  #286 (permalink)  

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Best thing for stores since the Atlantic Conveyor sank in 1982...
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 20:38
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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At the risk of being accused of drift thread - did somebody mention narrow waterways?




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Old 29th Mar 2021, 20:39
  #288 (permalink)  
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I read that the ships carrying livestock will get highest priority as some of them are running low on food to feed the animals on board.

The maritime shipping insurance industry is in for a tough road ahead.

I read that most don’t bother to insure for delays, but some do.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 20:51
  #289 (permalink)  
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If you think the Suez Canal is narrow; look at the Panama Canal locks.
Look at post #202 by Low Level Pilot

The Bernoulli Principle, or “bank effect” sucks the ship, or in this case its stern, to one side of the canal when it gets close, and the low pressure suction increases the closer the stern gets to the bank, resulting in a runaway event.

The Suez Canal has an active current because it is an open ditch from one sea to another. Yes, ships do build up a high pressure center in front (bow wave) and a low pressure wave behind while transiting each section between locks on the Panama Canal, but it’s nothing like having an active current like what you have in the Suez, with no chance to stop the current, as in the case in the Panama Canal.

I have been told that in addition, prop wash from going into full reverse can swing the stern to starboard, which IF IT HAPPENED would have made the situation worse in this case.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 21:08
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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Outstanding pictures Low Level Pilot. Thank you for posting them.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 23:56
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nightstop View Post
I’m trained and licensed to operate large aircraft into Airports with 30 metre width runways (instead of the normal 45 metres). What training (if any) or simulation facilities of adverse weather conditions do the Masters of these vessels have in order to navigate the Suez canal safely?
Masters are trained on simulators and should have expert knowledge in identifying wind limits for a canal transit, but ultimately they rely upon the Suez Pilot for advice and guidance. The Suez Pilots do train in a simulator, but probably not to the extent that a pilot in the the UK, USA or Australasia might.

Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
The Master has overall control and the Suez Pilots 'advise' but its the Master that giver the orders to the helmsman etc.
Sure there will be a inquiry but I think the short answer till something better comes along will be Tug Boats fore and aft depending on the ships size.
Sort of correct, the Master do has overall 'command', but the pilot is in charge of the navigation and will give all instructions to the helmsman, engine orders and also to the tugs (if used). The Master of large ships do not have the ship handling experience in many situations to be confident in overruling a pilot and almost certainly wouldn't have been able to identify proper recovery actions from the hydrodynamic issues (bank effect).

Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
If you think the Suez Canal is narrow; look at the Panama Canal locks.
The key difference is that entering a lock is slow speed and is heavily reliant on the diesel powered mules or tugs.

Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
Is it possible that super big ships like this will be banned from using the Suez channel in the future due to their limited maneuverability? Or are any other restrictions coming up for them?
Unlikely. Truth be told, the transit should be much slower and specialist escort tugs connected throughout, but I would be very surprised if the canal authorities actually do that.

Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
Look at post #202 by Low Level Pilot

The Bernoulli Principle, or “bank effect” sucks the ship, or in this case its stern, to one side of the canal when it gets close, and the low pressure suction increases the closer the stern gets to the bank, resulting in a runaway event.

The Suez Canal has an active current because it is an open ditch from one sea to another. Yes, ships do build up a high pressure center in front (bow wave) and a low pressure wave behind while transiting each section between locks on the Panama Canal, but it’s nothing like having an active current like what you have in the Suez, with no chance to stop the current, as in the case in the Panama Canal.

I have been told that in addition, prop wash from going into full reverse can swing the stern to starboard, which IF IT HAPPENED would have made the situation worse in this case.
Bank effect is regularly experienced in narrow channels like the Suez Canal, in most circumstances it does not involve a complete loss of control, the holes in the swiss cheese lined up this time.
The 'transverse' thrust issue is unlikely to have been an issue here, I doubt they'd have had time to bring the engine astern. However, when going astern on a right hand direction propeller ship's bow generally goes to starboard and the stern goes to port, when going ahead it isn't an issue as the lines of the hull are asymmetric to offset the effect. I suppose a little similar to the yaw experienced on a single engine propeller aircraft as you apply power.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 23:57
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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It seems much of the delay was consumed by getting suitable dredges and heavy tugs to the location. Methinks the Suez authorities will be consulting with the salvage operators on what equipment should be kept stationed to free beached whales (Evergreen class) expeditiously.

Dredging is a constant activity on the canal. I'd be looking for high capacity dredges that can be brought quickly to the scene when retasking is called for.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 06:12
  #293 (permalink)  
 
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Just quickly, before anyone changes the threat title to 'Suez Canal Unblocked', one scenario has been running through my mind.

What if there were a temptation to overload such a ship? What if such a ship then snagged a diagonal sand bar and/or furrow while navigating a canal, suddenly wrenching the bulbous nose around and causing the whole ship to spear into the bank? In my mind's eye, I can see the authorities frantically calling for more dredgers.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 06:16
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Low Level Pilot View Post
At the risk of being accused of drift thread - did somebody mention narrow waterways?

Is that the Manchester Ship Canal?


(and you will be relieved to hear that they have wisely prioritized my beer supply, and it is moving South through the canal https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9863326)

Last edited by double_barrel; 30th Mar 2021 at 07:01.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 08:25
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Just quickly, before anyone changes the threat title to 'Suez Canal Unblocked', one scenario has been running through my mind.

What if there were a temptation to overload such a ship? What if such a ship then snagged a diagonal sand bar and/or furrow while navigating a canal, suddenly wrenching the bulbous nose around and causing the whole ship to spear into the bank? In my mind's eye, I can see the authorities frantically calling for more dredgers.
Overloading is theoretically possible, but unlikely. Whilst individual containers are frequently overloaded, the actual ship going below the Plimsoll marks is rare. Boarding by pilot boat it’s not unusual for the pilot to visually inspect the draft marks prior to boarding when the ship is limited on under keel clearance. They are also regularly subjected to the maritime equivalent of ramp checks, especially popular in countries where bribery is rife to extort a captain.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 08:34
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you, mon aviateur. That somewhat reduces the options as to the causes of this incident, unless the canal has been silting up badly of late.

The wind and sandstorm is still being picked up and quoted by the press, but 30 mph winds do not seem very impressive. Winds over the desert must be a daily feature of life there. Do they have wind speed limits, I wonder, beyond which they stop shipping movements in the canal?(Thinking out loud.)

That all rather brings it back round to the Master and the Pilot again, or a lack of appropriate dredging.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 08:49
  #297 (permalink)  
 
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I see that the Egyptians dug a 2nd channel for about half the canal a few years back. Maybe they will consider doubling up the entire length..it would increade capacity a lot, and in events like this, would enable canal to stay open..
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 09:24
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
I wonder why they swing to the right?
This is a complete guess on my part, but could it have something to do with the direction the props turn? Loss of power, so no rudder and it takes some amount of time for the props to completely stop. So if the slowing down props push the aft end to port the bow is going to move to starboard?
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:02
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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Likely a stupid question, but (other than economics) what's to stop the canal being widened?
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:23
  #300 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Thank you, mon aviateur. That somewhat reduces the options as to the causes of this incident, unless the canal has been silting up badly of late.

The wind and sandstorm is still being picked up and quoted by the press, but 30 mph winds do not seem very impressive. Winds over the desert must be a daily feature of life there. Do they have wind speed limits, I wonder, beyond which they stop shipping movements in the canal?(Thinking out loud.)

That all rather brings it back round to the Master and the Pilot again, or a lack of appropriate dredging.
Wind limits are major hindrance for the larger container ships and for this class can be as low as 15kn in some ports and certainly below 25kn in most. I would imagine that 30kn could easily be an issue on the canal, causing an increased swept path as the ship crabs/leeway.
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