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Flat Towing a Jeep Wrangler

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Flat Towing a Jeep Wrangler

Old 17th Mar 2021, 00:52
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Flat Towing a Jeep Wrangler

What could go wrong at 50.000 rpm



I would have thought that there would have been a natural fuse that at least limited the damage to a single point of coupling.

Surely the manufacturer must have tested the design to demonstrate the end result would be minimized.

OK so the warranty doesn't cover it (not being driven) but I bet most owners would never understand towing practices nor even read the manual until it no longer starts up

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...PkJ?li=BBnb7Kz
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 10:00
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Pleny of prats about. Not long ago I saw a static caravan on the roadside. The owner had been towing it behind his pickup at road speeds - on the small, unbraked, unsuspended wheels which are fitted for positioning it on a site. Needless to say the wheel bearings had vaporised making towing a trifle awkward!
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 11:17
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Once upon a time everyone that owned a car needed to have at least some basic mechanical knowledge. Cars were often a bit fickle, and understanding at least something about the way they worked was pretty much essential to keep them going. The basics of the way the drive train worked, and the relationship between the engine, the clutch, the gearbox and the rest of the transmission, was something taught to all learner drivers as a part of driver training to get a licence.

Nowadays, car ownership has been deskilled to the point where even the dumbest moron can own and operate a car. The downside is that these dumb morons will do really stupid things like this, simply because they don't have any interest in expending any of their limited intellectual capacity in finding out how things work. The great mystery to me is how on earth they ever manage to hold down a job that paid enough to buy a 2021 Jeep Wrangler in the first place.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 14:03
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They must have been towing it with something immensely powerful to get a + two tonne vehicle up to highway speeds that is in 1 gear of low range.
It would probably drag the vehicle screaming at 30mph for a few hundred meters and then - oh wow that's so much easier.

I would also suspect the vehicle was being towed in the first place because the owner said it lacked power.
Probably had it in low range without realising it and wondered why it was so slow with lots of revs.
Doesn't look dirty at all and so would not have needed to be in low range.

A good lawyer might be able to claim the dealership was at fault for not explaining the low range system.

I recently bought a new van. I could not find out how to open the fuel filler.
Ford proudly told me that the vehicle manual is online.
So I spent 30 mins in a forecourt trying to download it and eventually had to call the dealership to explain.
(Turns out you have to open the passenger door first - bizarre.

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Old 17th Mar 2021, 14:23
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Online manuals, or worse, manuals that can only be read in the vehicle, via the infotainment screen, are perhaps the very worst bit of penny pinching by manufacturers. Presumably, printing the things is costly, so they are doing this to increase profit margins, but pretty much every time I've needed to look at a car manual I've needed to cross reference two or more sections. Good example from yesterday. My wife wants me to fit a dash cam, having had a near miss where one would have helped a lot had it turned into an accident. No problem, I fitted one to my last car, took it out when I traded it in (the Tesla has one built in) so I offered to fit the thing to her car. The manual is only available electronically. The bits I needed were the section covering access to the fuse panel (to install the piggy-back fuse power take off) and the fuse functions and ratings (to identify the internal accessory power fuse). Believe it or not these sections are around 60 pages apart in the electronic manual. Flipping between the two was a PITA compared with just putting something like a post-it on the relevant pages of a paper manual.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 14:27
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Worst thing is renting a car - they all work the same right? Nope, I arrived at a petrol station - how the hell do I open the filler cap door? Pushed it, pressed it, searched the drivers side dash, Glove Box and a manual? No. Eventually found a small lever below the driver's side map shelf, under the dash... Now I ask before I accept the keys...

Edit: missed SM's post! Snap!
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 14:28
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(Turns out you have to open the passenger door first - bizarre.
Presumably designed for the LHD model on the expectation the driver would have to exit the vehicle to refuel?
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 16:11
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Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey View Post
I recently bought a new van. I could not find out how to open the fuel filler.
Ford proudly told me that the vehicle manual is online.
So I spent 30 mins in a forecourt trying to download it and eventually had to call the dealership to explain.
(Turns out you have to open the passenger door first - bizarre.
We hired a Transit van last week and we had an issue with the fuel filler flap, unlike our own van which locks with the rest of the vehicle.
But it only took 30 seconds to find out that the passenger door has to be open...
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 16:23
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Once upon a time everyone that owned a car needed to have at least some basic mechanical knowledge. Cars were often a bit fickle, and understanding at least something about the way they worked was pretty much essential to keep them going. The basics of the way the drive train worked, and the relationship between the engine, the clutch, the gearbox and the rest of the transmission, was something taught to all learner drivers as a part of driver training to get a licence.
When and where di you learn to drive? I learned in the mid 70's (in Harrogate) and never went through any of this.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 16:37
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
When and where di you learn to drive? I learned in the mid 70's (in Harrogate) and never went through any of this.
Had three lessons for my 17th birthday, so 1969. The driving instructor had a simple block diagram, showing how the engine was connected to the gearbox via the clutch, how the gear lever changed the gears and how the drive was fed to the axle and wheels. Probably spent the first ten minutes going through how the car worked, in really simple terms, and what each of the controls did.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 17:28
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I rented a car at ORD. Leaving the lot I came to a barrier when I was required to show the attendant the rental agreement and had to open the door as I couldn't see how to lower the window

The attendant kindly pointed out the window switches on the center console
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 17:42
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I had already gone through on-the-job training with a rental car that I couldn't refuel before drop off. Fortunately I never got docked for the useage by the rental company.. Turns out you had to push on the door since there was no disconnect in the driver compt. Then come the wife's car which I only rarely use and almost never refuel, but it does have a release latch in the drivers compartment. So in an emergency low fuel situation I pulled into a petrol station and hit the latch and got the nozzle ready only to see the door firmly shut. Repeated all tasks again including pounding on the door without success This of course drew attention from on-lookers who also couldn't get the door open. So I limped home on super-highways and just made it to mt garage, We opened the trunk to get at the door and there we saw the cable from the dash of the car had broken. That got me to thinking I wonder how many petrol station owners would know enough to get it open, let alone expensive road service calls.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 17:46
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My TTS has to be low loadered, you cannot tow it being a Quattro
.
My car is an electric release for the fuel door LP, but it has an emergency manual pull backup in the boot behind the trim access to the lights.

The battery is in the boot, but it has terminals in the engine compartment so if flat you can charge it as boot is electric opening, but if you never use the keys as you use the fob to open the doors, you can find the lock seized from no use meaning you cannot mechanically access the car to open the Bonnet ( hood) to get to the terminals to charge it lol.

We were told to bring a Landy with a snapped half shaft back to base and they wouldn’t provide transport, result was to stick it in 4 wheel and drive it back as the other two chewed themselves apart... not amused came to mind.

Last edited by NutLoose; 17th Mar 2021 at 17:58.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 18:24
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One thing that worries me with the Tesla is that the doors have no handles internally, they are opened by a push button that then operates the electric locks/latches, via one of the computers (the push button does not directly control the locks/latches). Tesla have provided emergency mechanical release levers for the front doors, hidden under the door consoles, but there is no easily accessible emergency release for the rear doors. The mechanical release for those doors can only be reached by removing the door internal trim panel, that reveals a cable that can be pulled to release the latch. Apparently this complies with safety legislation, on the basis that the situation is no worse than for conventional car doors with the child safety locks engaged. I can't say that I feel that comfortable about the arrangement, though. I much prefer to have door latches under direct mechanical control via a lever. It's hard to understand why they chose to use a push button, but then this is the same company that doesn't provide any button or handle for the glovebox, that needs to be opened via the touch screen, with an optional PIN so that the glovebox can be used to secure a gun . . .
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 18:31
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Originally Posted by golfbananajam View Post
When and where di you learn to drive? I learned in the mid 70's (in Harrogate) and never went through any of this.

Harrogate? That explains it. You could afford a better car than the rest of us.

My first one cost 120, supposedly with a fresh MOT, but apparently back then a floor and a working clutch slave cylinder were classed as non testable items. A third of the value of that car was fitted on the wheels.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 18:36
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I would have thought that there would have been a natural fuse that at least limited the damage to a single point of coupling.
Problem with that is that the Rubicon is reputed to have pretty serious off-road chops - and in first gear in 4-Low, the drive train has to be able to routinely handle some serious torque (especially since it needs to be able to take shock loads from spinning tires suddenly getting traction.
If you put an intentional shear point in there to protect the engine - and combined with St. Murphy's law - you can be sure it'll nuisance snap at the worst possible time and in the worst possible place (like 100 miles from nowhere).
I read an article recently about a guy in Utah that specialized in fetching vehicles that had broken down (or otherwise become disabled) out in the boonies. His basic towing service price was four figures, and five figure bills were not uncommon...

You need to know what you're doing when towing most any AWD or 4WD vehicle - many recommend trailering to prevent drive train damage.

I bet the guy never forgets to put a vehicle in neutral before towing again...
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 20:26
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Problem with that is that the Rubicon is reputed to have pretty serious off-road chops - and in first gear in 4-Low, the drive train has to be able to routinely handle some serious torque (especially since it needs to be able to take shock loads from spinning tires suddenly getting traction.
If you put an intentional shear point in there to protect the engine - and combined with St. Murphy's law - you can be sure it'll nuisance snap at the worst possible time and in the worst possible place (like 100 miles from nowhere).
I read an article recently about a guy in Utah that specialized in fetching vehicles that had broken down (or otherwise become disabled) out in the boonies. His basic towing service price was four figures, and five figure bills were not uncommon...

You need to know what you're doing when towing most any AWD or 4WD vehicle - many recommend trailering to prevent drive train damage.

I bet the guy never forgets to put a vehicle in neutral before towing again...
point taken, but I was thinking about a clean end point due to RPM caused centrifugal loading. At least you could save the engine and give up something less costly . Of course you could do something like is done in aviation and install an idiot light in the driven vehicles dash ,,,,,,, to be ignored
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 22:21
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
Harrogate? That explains it. You could afford a better car than the rest of us.

My first one cost 120, supposedly with a fresh MOT, but apparently back then a floor and a working clutch slave cylinder were classed as non testable items. A third of the value of that car was fitted on the wheels.
120 quid ?? - you were done !
My first car was a 1956 A40 Cambridge (1200cc of pulsating power) from the Red Rose Garage in Wendover - 35 was a lot of money for a poor apprentice in 1971.
It was actually a very solid car - the cranking handle was a very useful feature on many occasions
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Old 18th Mar 2021, 01:17
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
120 quid ?? - you were done !
My first car was a 1956 A40 Cambridge (1200cc of pulsating power) from the Red Rose Garage in Wendover - 35 was a lot of money for a poor apprentice in 1971.
It was actually a very solid car - the cranking handle was a very useful feature on many occasions
Pah! You were done, my first car, as an apprentice in 1968, was a 1961 Mini van for 30, plus the cost of new dynamo brushes before moving it out of the barn. Then a couple of days later 4 new spark plugs and rapidly thereafter new tyres, dampers, lots of welding, new (reconditioned "Goldseal") gearbox. Still it took me to the north coast of Scotland for work, albeit slowly even by the standards of the day. It was followed by a worse horror-show, a 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite.

Did I learn from this? No and Yes. Having learned to live with unreliability and expense a long series of Lotuses followed. Glass-fibre bodies = less welding.


'a
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Old 18th Mar 2021, 06:51
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We were told to bring a Landy with a snapped half shaft back to base and they wouldn’t provide transport, result was to stick it in 4 wheel and drive it back as the other two chewed themselves apart... not amused came to mind.
This was a common occurrence with Landrovers when we used them for work in the 1960s, and that was the method used to get back to base. The weak half shafts were a serious design fault in what was supposed to be an off-road vehicle.
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