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Right to repair

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Right to repair

Old 10th Mar 2021, 10:59
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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BOSCH power tools run and run until one part brakes and no chance of a fix due to lack of a small part. Dyson vacuum cleaners can nearly always be fixed from a ready supply of parts from Ebay, a meccano set.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I have an ipad air, V1 from 2013/2014.
It is brilliant. But, during covid it has been hammered. It still works brilliantly, BUT the battery is useless now. It spends more time being charged than being used.
Apple's website tells me it will cost £250 for them to look at it. Plus the cost of the battery?
A new ipad V8 is £329.

A deliberate plot by Apple to force non-techie "customers" to buy new?
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Having worked in the telco industry a few times building phone networks for the (then) latest and greatest phones, there are a lot of manufacturing revisions of phones caused by the subtle changes in the subcomponents that are used to build them, it's all changing quite fast as they strive to keep up with the newest developments. A screen may look the same for two phones that are of the same make and model but the screens may actually operate differently. Only the manufacturers have the manifests of what subcomponents work for a particular revision and they may not be able to share them, in fact they may not even have the superseded manifests readily available. A reputable repair shop would however have some experience with what works and what doesn't.

Locking in subcomponents also guarantees all the licensing issues are satisfied (revenue and rights) and the device will work as advertised (tested).

It's the new world, cashed up (or dare I say sponsored by the big corporations to buy their crap) consumers have the power to replace their distractions at will. They don't care or even think if these items are repairable or not. Hardly "green" but it is nice and shiny and that's all they care about.




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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:24
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Prolonged the life of our Bosch washing machine for an extra 4 years (finally expired just before Christmas) to a total of 12 years, which was pretty good - probably does about 7-8 cycles a week. Mrs CP is a dab hand at using Youtube to diagnose suspicious noises, and finding instructional videos to show how to repair them. We fitted a new pump (cost about £25) and new bushes (less than £20).
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:28
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post

A deliberate plot by Apple to force non-techie "customers" to buy new?
Absolutely!

I replaced the battery in my mother in law's iPad a couple of years ago, same sort of vintage as yours. Not expensive to do, but very nerve wracking, as they are glued together. The battery is readily available, cost less than £20, IIRC and came complete with a set of tools needed to do the job. The process is to heat up the glass front of the iPad, to soften the adhesive, then extremely carefully pull the glass screen off. A fair bit of heat is needed, I found. Apple have a machine to do this, that both heats the screen and uses big suction pads to pull it off, but there are videos on YouTube showing how to make do with a heat gun and the free tools that come with the replacement battery kit. Actually replacing the battery was easy, as was reassembing the iPad using the new double sided adhesive that came with the kit. The repair seems to have lasted OK.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:31
  #26 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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AO,

There are high street repairers who will replace an iPad battery for about £60 in store or in 48 hours by return post.

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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:33
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
A deliberate plot by Apple to force non-techie "customers" to buy new?
There is an illustrated guide here that shows how to replace the battery in such an iPad Air (it takes 111 steps and is graded as 'very difficult'). The fact that the battery doesn't perform 'as new' anymore is because of chemistry. Batteries degrade over time. The fact that you were able to use the iPad for this period and it is still running fine apart from the battery is a testament to the build quality and design of the iPad. Having glanced at the repair guide, I can see why they charge a significant fee for this repair. This same build quality also means that the repairability is not as good. So I wouldn't call it a deliberate ploy, more a good example of the compromises in these designs.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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@ N707ZS You can buy Bosch spare parts from Bosch, by post. They hold many spares. I have replaced the finger 'trigger' switch and the suppression capacitor on my Bosch electric drill for example.




Both those components in my drill were U/S, but many problems can be caused by electrical interconnections rather than the actual electronics themselves. And in the case of washing machines and boilers etc, bad water pipe connections or blockages. Always worth investigating before chucking something out.

Last edited by Uplinker; 10th Mar 2021 at 11:48.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 11:47
  #29 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Replace the adjectives "busy" or "incapable" with "idle" and you're probably nearer the mark! People are very busy nowadays checking Facebook, Twitter (posting on PPRuNe!! ) to find time to carry out mundane tasks like keeping their car on the road.
I mentioned before, the car I commute to work in has just passed its 21st birthday. The only time it has gone to a garage in the seven years I’ve owned it is for its annual MOT test. It passed again three weeks ago so I won’t be replacing it this year.

Having come from a family background without any motor transport of our own (not too unusual sixty years ago) it was always a case of “make do and mend”. I had to become self sufficient at minimum expense to get mobile and it has always stuck with me.

As far as washing machines go, we did have to buy a new one quite recently despite my efforts to repair the old one. It worked very well but the drum bearings had failed. I tried to buy new bearings to fit myself but discovered they are actually part of the entire drum and to my annoyance, the cost of replacing that made it uneconomic to fix.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 12:12
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
There's been a big campaign in the US about this, focussed largely on Apple, who very deliberately try to make repair of their devices impossible, by adding non-functional coding to parts so that the device won't work if some parts are replaced. Saw a video a while ago where an iPhone had been taken in to an Apple store for repair and the owner was told it was unrepairable and they needed to buy a new phone.

The problem was that one of the cameras had failed, apparently an easy thing to repair usually. An independent repairer fitted a new, genuine Apple, camera and although the camera and the phone worked after the repair, the phone was locked out of Apple services. Apparently Apple have hard coded serial numbers into components, solely for the purpose of preventing them from being repaired, even when a repair is relatively simple and cost effective.

Microsoft and Intel have done much the same. Intel agreed with Microsoft to add hard coding into some Intel chips so they would not work with older versions of Windows, forcing users to buy the latest version of Windows and preventing upgrades to older PCs. Luckily there are a lot of hackers around working on Microsoft-based systems and it didn't take long for them to find a way to bypass the Intel/Microsoft anti-repair/upgrade crap.
I never understood why people buy an expensive iPhone (or pretty much any other phone) and then demand to have it repaird in a back street dive by a nerd with a soldering iron.
Apparently Apple have hard coded serial numbers into components, solely for the purpose of preventing them from being repaired,
As far as I remeber seeing, the reason is that the camera needs calibrating using the OEM equipment.
A friend has had similar issues with Samsung, shocking customer services...

Would you take your Tesla to a back street garage, or do you use a local spanner merchent...?
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 12:17
  #31 (permalink)  

Controversial, moi?
 
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 12:20
  #32 (permalink)  

Controversial, moi?
 
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Would you take your Tesla to a back street garage, or do you use a local spanner merchent...?
Like having my 2005 Porsche repaired would I pay Porsche main dealer rates or competent specialist rates? Let me think.......

Have a look at this about Tesla and the argument being discussed:

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Old 10th Mar 2021, 12:46
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
I never understood why people buy an expensive iPhone (or pretty much any other phone) and then demand to have it repaird in a back street dive by a nerd with a soldering iron.

As far as I remeber seeing, the reason is that the camera needs calibrating using the OEM equipment.
A friend has had similar issues with Samsung, shocking customer services...

Would you take your Tesla to a back street garage, or do you use a local spanner merchent...?

Nothing to do with calibration of the camera, it's solely related to a hard coded serial number that tells the phone processor that a part has been replaced. The only way to reset that is for Apple to use their proprietary kit to make the change needed. The camera functioned just fine when it was replaced, it was simply that Apple services were locked out because the phone detected a part had been replaced. The same applies to the replacement of other parts in an iPhone, Apple have been gradually increasing the number of parts that are hard coded to the main processor, as a way to stop independent repair.

Yes, no problem with taking the Tesla in to a garage. There are no Tesla dealerships, anyway, and Tesla make their repair manuals, part number lists etc, available, and, thanks largely to the efforts of "Rich Rebuilds" they are now more accepting of some third party repairs. You can travel long distances to a Tesla Service Centre (there are only a handful covering the whole of the UK) or you can take it anywhere you like. Tesla don't block owners doing this at all. Mine's been into our village garage twice to have the headlights adjusted, for example (long story behind that, but not relevant to this thread).

Last edited by VP959; 10th Mar 2021 at 12:57.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 13:15
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The parts I wanted were out of stock and discontinued. I did Ebay the broken items as spares or repairs so someone else will of benefited from the useable parts.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 13:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Nothing to do with calibration of the camera, it's solely related to a hard coded serial number that tells the phone processor that a part has been replaced. The only way to reset that is for Apple to use their proprietary kit to make the change needed. The camera functioned just fine when it was replaced, it was simply that Apple services were locked out because the phone detected a part had been replaced. The same applies to the replacement of other parts in an iPhone, Apple have been gradually increasing the number of parts that are hard coded to the main processor, as a way to stop independent repair.

Yes, no problem with taking the Tesla in to a garage. There are no Tesla dealerships, anyway, and Tesla make their repair manuals, part number lists etc, available, and, thanks largely to the efforts of "Rich Rebuilds" they are now more accepting of some third party repairs. You can travel long distances to a Tesla Service Centre (there are only a handful covering the whole of the UK) or you can take it anywhere you like. Tesla don't block owners doing this at all. Mine's been into our village garage twice to have the headlights adjusted, for example (long story behind that, but not relevant to this thread).
Actually, my bad it's the screen and FaceID sensors which have to be calibrated.
Doesn't get away from the resoning behind taking a £1K smartphone to be repaired by someone who may 'cheaper', but may or may not be capable of doing the repair.
If Apple screw up a repair you'll get a new phone.
If back-street-boy screws up will he be as obliging?

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Old 10th Mar 2021, 14:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Actually, my bad it's the screen and FaceID sensors which have to be calibrated.
Doesn't get away from the resoning behind taking a £1K smartphone to be repaired by someone who may 'cheaper', but may or may not be capable of doing the repair.
If Apple screw up a repair you'll get a new phone.
If back-street-boy screws up will he be as obliging?

I think the point is that Apple's actions aren't just impacting the "back street" people that may well screw up the phone, it's impacting on very reliable, legitimate, companies that offer repair services that Apple refuse to offer. This example is one that really hacked me off when I saw it. A badly damaged iPad was recovered along with the body of its owner, and the family of the deceased asked if there was any way to recover the images and data from it, for obvious reasons, the images, in particular, had great sentimental value. Apple (wrongly) told the police this was impossible. Jessa Jones clearly knows a heck of a lot more than Apple about their own products, and proved that it was indeed possible. One of the most heart warming stories I've seen come out of this whole right to repair battle. It's a live stream, so skip to about 55 minutes to see what this particular "back street" repairer was able to achieve:

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Old 10th Mar 2021, 14:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for the comments about repairing my ipad.

I looked at the videos a while ago. Too much for me. I can rebuild car engines designed before about 1970 but not the electrics! And not the Ipad.

You tube videos about "how to" are great.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 17:36
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I would like to see this kind of approach applied to computer peripherals and drivers for them - I have a very good, perfectly serviceable, flatbed scanner that is in excellent running order but can't be used because Canon haven't provided Win 10 drivers, nor Apple drivers, nor Linux drivers for it. So an expensive item in perfect condition has to be junked for want of some software - where is the sense in that?

If they won't provide drivers themselves, the least they could do would be to open the necessary code up to the open source community so that at least Linux drivers could be built.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 17:55
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly-by-Wife View Post
I would like to see this kind of approach applied to computer peripherals and drivers for them - I have a very good, perfectly serviceable, flatbed scanner that is in excellent running order but can't be used because Canon haven't provided Win 10 drivers, nor Apple drivers, nor Linux drivers for it. So an expensive item in perfect condition has to be junked for want of some software - where is the sense in that?

If they won't provide drivers themselves, the least they could do would be to open the necessary code up to the open source community so that at least Linux drivers could be built.
I have exactly this problem, with a very good and fully serviceable Canon scanner for which there are no drivers available for newer operating systems. My solution has been to keep an old, stand alone, non-network connected, Windows XP laptop that's used solely for the scanner, transferring the files via USB, but sooner or later the old laptop is going to die, I'm sure.
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Old 10th Mar 2021, 18:52
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I have exactly this problem, with a very good and fully serviceable Canon scanner for which there are no drivers available for newer operating systems. My solution has been to keep an old, stand alone, non-network connected, Windows XP laptop that's used solely for the scanner, transferring the files via USB, but sooner or later the old laptop is going to die, I'm sure.
Or try NAPS2 or TWAIN. Sometimes works...
On Apple I use the built in Image Capture App on my Brother scanner...
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