Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

No cooker point! 25 year old UK house

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

No cooker point! 25 year old UK house

Old 26th Feb 2021, 11:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,702
Some cookers do suggest they can be connected to a regular plug. I bought a cooker with a 13A plug pre-attached! Plug came off, and I wired it to a pre-wired 40A socket.
I suspect that needs a bit more research!
Ancient Observer is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 12:22
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1
This sale is fishy.

Sales agents are not unhappy if you spend your time worrying about a cooker.
They (probably) know there are much bigger faults they are hoping you don't see.
osborne is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 12:52
  #23 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Kiltrash View Post
With regard to buying unseen cars from [email protected]@. My son bought one as a new arrival meant a upgrade to estate. He gets a Łallowance per month in lieu of a company car, checking round a found a suitable one in Bristol and it was delivered to his house with a 14 day money back etc.
It turned out not suitable for his wife so was collected in 4 days and the refund in his account 2 days later.
Would recommend
A house? No way would go and see the quirks and local.
Well to be honest, he's a business customer rather than private so he wouldn't be paying for any faults that emerge, and it wouldn't be unknown for any warranty to be not quite as comprehensive as advertised. Plus, nobody would go to a forecourt, think, I like that car, buy it there and then and not bother with a test drive.

With regard to the house, a rhetorical question for the OP....would you buy, either as a share or complete ownership, an aircraft without first checking the history, having a good inspection and then a test flight ?
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 12:52
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
Age: 73
Posts: 1,252
IIRC, the 13 Amp plug/socket to BS1363 is only rated at 13 amps for short periods and to 10 Amps continuously. Also while having the checks done, find out if the house is on Protective Multiple Earthing (PME). If so, check that any outside water taps have an insulating plastic pipe feeding them or in the event of a ruptured neutral conductor, an outside metal tap could sit at anything up to 240 volts above earth potential.
radeng is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 13:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,620
I would most definitely visit any property before signing anything.

Unless you do, you have no idea about the neighbours, whether there is a traveller's camp nearby, the 'feel' of the area, sources of noise, smells, or pollution, and dozens of other things that you will simply not know without being there.

I know of people who buy a house in a lovely old village and then complain about the Church clock or Bell-ringing practice. Or an airport flight path or a motorway that can be heard..

5 hours is a long journey, I know - we drove 5 hours each way in the same day to view the house we recently bought. But just think of the hassle you could end up with if you don't view it yourselves.

Our present house and a previous one were both built within the last 20 years, and both have cooker sockets. Yours might well have been plastered over or something. Is there an MCB in the consumer unit for Oven/Cooker, or evidence of one? That's the obvious clue.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 13:24
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
Don’t trust the agent.
This needs to be repeated in bold caps, so here goes - DON'T TRUST THE AGENT!

The house will NOT be as described or pictured. (eg: wide angle lenses are used to exaggerate proportions.) The agent is working for the seller, not you. You may be lucky and find one that does not lie outright, although most do. But they will NOT tell you about any downsides, problems, etc etc, why would they? There will not be any pictures of things that are wrong. No particulars ever mentioned noise problems form traffic or aircraft, unpleasant neighbours, flooding, all the things you find out about only by being there and looking hard.

Caveat Emptor!
old,not bold is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 13:42
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 406
With that age of house, and with any doubt about the cooker point, it sounds like the house is due for a complete rewire to the latest IET wiring regs. The 18th Edition still current I believe.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 13:51
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: south coast
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
Some cookers do suggest they can be connected to a regular plug. I bought a cooker with a 13A plug pre-attached! Plug came off, and I wired it to a pre-wired 40A socket.
I suspect that needs a bit more research!

Be warned - the 40amp connection will be dangerous if you have an induction oven/hob - they only draw about 8 amps so need only a 13 amp supply but it should still be a fused spur
Barcli is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 14:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northampton
Posts: 0
The 18th Edition still current I believe.
Good pun Sallyann
rogerg is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 14:14
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 48
We too do not have a "cooker point", by which I assume you mean a switched, fused connection (SFC) point. Our gas cooker, only a few months old, does require mains electricity to operate the clock and igniters but it uses a standard 13 amp plug. When we were selecting the cooker we were careful to check the electrical requirements, if your gas cooker has an electric grill for example you may need a 32A SFC, as well as the size (width and depth) as we wanted it to fit in an existing space.
golfbananajam is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 14:30
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 1,983
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
With that age of house, and with any doubt about the cooker point, it sounds like the house is due for a complete rewire to the latest IET wiring regs. The 18th Edition still current I believe.
B Regs are not generally retrospective, and there's no reason (in the absence of symptoms) to suspect 25 year old wiring.

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 15:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Not quite what you want..... but, when replacing a gas cooker with an electric, there was a cooker switch in situ but no apparent outlet, the wall having been re-tiled. . On removing the switch cover plate, a cable was visible (not connected within the switch) I found a little note (in my Fathers writing - he had died some years earlier) saying, "the outlet for this switch is four tiles down and one to the left"! On further inspection with a gentle tapping, a hollow sound was discovered and a hole made..... and there was the cable end, I still have the note!

Seer
seer557 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 15:55
  #33 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 730
John Lewis doesn't have a cooker width search category less than 55cm.

Rans6..........................
rans6andrew is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 15:59
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 412
As charliegolf wrote above, BS7671 is not applied retrospectively, so there is no requirement to improve a 16th Edition installation up to the current 18th Edition, 1st Amendment, standard. However, if an EICR is carried out (something I'd really strongly recommend, as it's a requirement to do one every ten years on normal domestic installations) then that will be done using BS7671:2018 Amndt 1 as the standard, so anything that complied with the 16th Edition, but that doesn't comply with the 18th Edition, will be flagged as a C3 - something for which remedial action is recommended. In this case the most likely C3s in a perfectly safe installation will be the absence of adequate RCD protection probably the absence of a fire resistant consumer unit enclosure, plus perhaps a few other small things like the absence of fire sealant around cable entries.

It's very well worth getting EICR done on any property being purchased, even a fairly new one, as I've seen many, many examples of new installations that are close to being unsafe, including one brand new barn conversion where after ten minutes of just doing the initial walk around part of the inspection I found a C1 that was so dangerous that I phoned the DNO and got them to come out immediately and pull their fuse and seal the incomer to stop any attempt to reconnect power. Turned out the electrical installation had been done by the builder, who had done a great job on making the barn look good, but clearly didn't have a clue when it came to electrical installation work.

I don't think I've ever done an EICR and not found at least one problem, most of the time they are minor, and almost always DIY work from people who don't understand some of the basic requirements. A favourite serious defect that comes up very regularly is DIY retrofitted metal switches and light fittings with no connection to the CPC. On older installations, lighting circuits sometimes don't even have a CPC, so cannot have metal switches or fittings installed without a rewire, but that doesn't seem to stop people buying them in B&Q or wherever and just connecting them up, ignoring the risk posed by having exposed conductive parts with no connection to PE.

VP959 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 16:46
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,620
Yes, but the quality of work by some "Professionals" can leave a lot to be desired. I am of the thinking that any installation should look neat and tidy, as well as being safely installed - plumbing as well as wiring.

I despair at the amount of discarded outer electrical insulation, bent nails and crookedly driven screws, along with higgledy piggledy un-clipped wires and pipes that I find. I found the safety guard from a jigsaw under the shower recently when I had to cut the ceiling below open to find a water leak. I mean, what sort of person is in such a hurry that they do a crappy job, then don't stop to pick up off-cuts, rubbish and parts of their tools from under the floor they are working on?

I have to rewire their abortions, and clip the wires neatly. OCD maybe, but at least I then know they are safe.

I once re-wired a 30's house which had rubber wiring in metal pipe conduit. I found that one of the floorboard brads had been driven straight through the conduit, and luckily, had just pushed the (individual) wires aside, rather than piercing the insulation.

Regarding metal switch plates, I suspect it is not people ignoring the risk - but that they don't understand the risk in the first place. Trouble is, hiring an electrician - or any trader - can be far too expensive and a real lottery, so it is no wonder people try to DIY.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 16:59
  #36 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by rans6andrew View Post
John Lewis doesn't have a cooker width search category less than 55cm.

Rans6..........................
Well there's a whole new meaning to the word......deprivation.

Alas, other outlets are available.....but, salvation may be at hand.....c/o ?...John Lewis ! ( no profusive thanks required ) but it does beg the question as to why, if I found this by accident, which I did, you couldn't when searching ?


55cm Cookers | John Lewis & Partners

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 27th Feb 2021 at 06:30.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 17:30
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 1,983
Veep wrote... (my bold).

However, if an EICR is carried out (something I'd really strongly recommend, as it's a requirement to do one every ten years on normal domestic installations) then that will be done using BS7671:2018 Amndt 1 as the standard,
Surely only for rented accomodation?

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 18:16
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ABZshire
Age: 63
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by Loose rivets View Post
Barmy. 10mm contiguous cable to the distribution box. 6mm if the hob is going to be gas. Yes, you can get away with less, but . . .

I borrowed a bungalow, build c 1970, which had one wire/fuse (yes, fuse) to the cooker, one for the rest of the house, and one for lighting. Old bloke had wired a supply to his radio into the cooker box 13amp outlet. I checked, and there was no fuse, so the 13a type plug was limited only by 60 fuse wire.

Probably best to go and look at your intended house. A survey is a often an expensive joke. Take a spirit level and a ball bearing, a multi-meter and a laptop camera. Amazing what you can find down drains.

Talking of which, do you know who's responsible for the foul sewer manhole and associated pipes? Can be a huge issue.

I could go on all night.
This a million times over, the first flat we looked at was on the p%$$ as we found out chasing the ball bearing across the kitchen , bathroom and bedroom.
Another property I plugged in one of those socket testers, half the sockets failed and a subsequent inspection revealed an abortion of a DIY rewire. We purchased that house after making an offer to reflect the cost of a rewire.
xraydice is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 19:01
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Veep wrote... (my bold).



Surely only for rented accomodation?

CG

No, it's been a requirement for all domestic installations for years, although it has been very largely ignored for as long as I can remember. Rented properties need an EICR every 5 years, and it's a legally enforceable requirement (failure to have one on a domestic property is only likely to impact an insurance claim).
VP959 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2021, 19:20
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 259
If anybody needs a domestic electrician in South Devon I recommend these people:

https://bvecgroup.co.uk/

Reasonable prices, tidy and clean work, you wouldn't even know they had been there except everything works as it should.
k3k3 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.