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Scottish Politics

Old 25th Feb 2021, 20:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Professional Pilots Rumours Network

Help please..........Trying to remember who granted devolution to Scotland........oh..... now I remember !
That master of Global Change...... who failed to anticipate the growth of nationalism.
Thank you Prime Minister Blair.
Rules of the game for the aviator : Anticipate the Threats....Recognise the Error.... Recover from Undesirable State.
g y ( of Tayside )
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 21:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that the loudest advocates for sovereignty for themselves are also those who wish to deny it to others.
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Old 25th Feb 2021, 22:10
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BizJetJock View Post
Except he's not....... Would you agree to appear and only say what you have been told to say?
Yes, I would appear - but I would say exactly what I wanted to say and let the threatened prosecution take its course.

Except now he is, apparently. I guess somebody has convinced him of the complete folly of his approach in the eyes of the majority of Scots who basically couldn’t give a t*ss. As ORAC points out, all this is already in the public domain and whilst it is perhaps edging towards a final conclusion, it’s more likely to be a damp squib than a jaw dropping threat to democracy, as some are suggesting.

As I implied earlier, this would not normally even register on the richter scale of national (UK) news but clearly the upcoming Scottish elections has got No 10 in a tis and the ever combative Andrew Neil (aka ‘The Spectator’) is continuing his one man campaign to stem the tide and, in the process no doubt, impress his new backers. Unfortunately he is still trying the old ‘hardball’ approach at the very time No10 is probably about to do yet another about face and try ‘love bombing’ the Scots in a new pally pally sort of way!!

Can you imagine the new '3 amigos', Johnson, Gove and Farage dashing up to Edinburgh to plead with the great unwashed with promises of.......something.

The SNiPs could pack up and go home - job done.



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Old 25th Feb 2021, 22:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
The last 'indyref' was won by some people being able to do simple mathematics !
But only just, in the interim we've had BREXIT and COVID which both suggest mathematics is not the main issue. Sovereignty and control are - apparently.

There would also be the spectre of a hard border between Scotland and England.
No hard border necessary apparently. Ask the Irish.

I already pay the 'Scottish' rate of income tax for the privilege of living in Nicolalaland - imagine what the tax rate would be in an 'independent' scotland.
FWIW, I also live in Nicolaland and I also pay ‘Scottish’ rate income tax and I pay slightly less than I would be paying in BoJos utopia land - even if I moved there tomorrow.

they will probably give the vote to 12 year olds
..unlikely in the extreme. Apart from being quantitively insignificant it also proved totally counterproductive (in their view) as the majority in the 16-18 age group actually voted 'No'.

Last edited by OilCan; 26th Feb 2021 at 02:47.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 06:51
  #25 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...dict-n677s7wls

Nicola Sturgeon reported for comments on verdict in Alex Salmond Court Case

Nicola Sturgeon has been reported for a breach of the ministerial code after she “egregiously questioned” the verdict of the jury that acquitted Alex Salmond of 13 counts of sexual assault.

In a letter to Leslie Evans, the permanent secretary to the Scottish government, Jim Sillars, 83, the former deputy leader of the SNP, said that in more than 60 years in public life, he could not remember a similar intervention by any world politician.

He said that Sturgeon’s offence was “unique in its gravity” and added: “It is vital to the health of a democracy that government, more than any other part of our society, maintains a scrupulous distance between it and intervention, even post-trial intervention, in our criminal justice system.”

Sillars’s intervention came as the Faculty of Advocates appeared to reprimand the first minister for the comments at her daily coronavirus briefing on Wednesday.

Sturgeon rounded on her predecessor, recalling the women who brought charges against him and whose “voices have been silenced”. She said: “Alex Salmond is innocent of criminality but that doesn’t mean the behaviour they claimed of didn’t happen. I think it is important that we don’t lose sight of that.”

The faculty said: “Maintaining that confidence requires, amongst other things, recognition of the importance of the independent role of the lord advocate, the independent role of the courts and, perhaps most importantly, the vital place of the verdicts of impartial juries in criminal proceedings.”

In his letter Sillars said it was outrageous that Sturgeon had used a televised briefing about the pandemic to attack her predecessor on five separate occasions. “Abusing the government Covid briefing was neither proper or legitimate,” Sillars said.

“The jury’s conclusion, with a majority of women on it, was to acquit,” Sillars added. “Those were weasel words employed by the first minister, and any reasonable person would draw more than an inference from them that the jury was wrong.

“The first clause of the ministerial code states that ‘Scottish ministers are expected to maintain high standards of behaviour and to behave in a way that upholds the highest standards of propriety’. The first minister’s comment on the trial verdict breached those standards.”
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 06:58
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OilCan View Post
No hard border necessary apparently. Ask the Irish.
FWIW, I also live in Nicolaland and I also pay ‘Scottish’ rate income tax and I pay slightly less than I would be paying in BoJos utopia land - even if I moved there tomorrow.
..unlikely in the extreme.
Ireland is a special case and very complicated history wise.
With respect 'Oilcan' you are missing my point about Income Tax/taxation in general - currently the scottish purse is kept filled up due to the Barnett Formula (£32 Billion last year ?) - if scotland goes 'indy' - it will lose that and more - guess who will have to make up the teensy little shortfall.
Add to that the drive to electric vehicles by 2030 which might make any remaining N Sea oil of little interest/value (I know crude oil is used for other things,but the world is still awash with crude oil in other countries - and much easier/cheaper to extract).
As I posted earlier - Post Covid the western countries will be bankrupt,England will not have any money to gift to scotland if they vote for 'Indy' - but I guess we could just leave and take our share of the National Debt with us (add that to the scottish taxpayers burden after losing the 'Barnett Billions' )
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 07:43
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Oil is back to $63 and the new field recently surveyed is estimated to have an awful lot of billion barrels. Oil is going to be saleable for at least the next thirty years. Scotland needs to exploit this asset during that time. I think that they have a great future as a nation. The Scots are an enterprising bunch and, although they do have social problems, I think that their strategy will move them forward. Get Scoxit Done!!
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 08:01
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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But the prediction in 2014s SNP manifesto was oil at $114 forever.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 08:06
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Oil is back to $63 and the new field recently surveyed is estimated to have an awful lot of billion barrels. Oil is going to be saleable for at least the next thirty years. Scotland needs to exploit this asset during that time. I think that they have a great future as a nation. The Scots are an enterprising bunch and, although they do have social problems, I think that their strategy will move them forward. Get Scoxit Done!!
Oil prices are potentially volatile both up and down - and the move to EV's has not 'bitten' yet.
From memory N Sea Oil is 'light' which might limit its use for purposes other than petrol ?

'Social Problems' - you are not kidding - there is a huge Drug and Drink problem up here (paid for using some of the Barnett Billions).

The SNP/Scottish 'indy' question really does suit your anti Boris Agenda - you manage to slag him off on all of your posts LOL.

I would not trust Sturgeon and her cronies to run a country - their track record up here is appalling,please do a little research on that before making sweeping statements as you did above.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 09:15
  #30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Interesting that the loudest advocates for sovereignty for themselves are also those who wish to deny it to others.
Interesting that those Scots who scream loudest for independence from England wish to meekly re-entangle themselves in the ever tightening European noose.

I seem to recall that the SNP were very anti-European integration a few decades back. I wouldn't be surprised to discover Oor Nic harbours dreams of a European Commissionership...


Scottish friend of mine is pro-Union and anti-Brexit. However, when last I saw him six months ago, his opinion of the EU had become very negative and I'll be interested to know what his opinion of them is now that the vaccine debacle has surfaced.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 10:14
  #31 (permalink)  
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Whether we like it or not, we are now in a world in which allegations of abuse by men have been weaponised, to the point where it hardly matters whether or not they are true. They are a weapon to be wielded in battle by women on the instructions of lawyers, in the service of a political or financial goal. I have no trouble believing that Salmond was capable of such behaviour, especially if there was alcohol involved, but we’re never really going to know. He’s never going to lead the SNP again, and I doubt he would even want that anyway.

I also think Sturgeon is wrong to push the independence agenda at this time. I’ve been away from Scotland for so long now that I wasn’t allowed to vote in the last referendum, but I would have voted no, because the economic case wasn’t strong enough then. I don’t think it’s any stronger now. The EU is not the saviour of an inefficient economy - just ask Greece about that - and the best case scenario would be for Scotland to become more like Norway, carefully managing the oil wealth they have. I could also make comparisons with Ireland, which is doing OK mostly due to its liberal attitude to foreign companies and low corporate tax rates.

So where does this leave Scotland? My opinion: sort this mess out, even if it means a change of guard at the top of the SNP, and see if the Conservatives gain any more seats. Let the dust settle, and give everyone time to assess the economic fallout from the COVID-19 pandemic. This is not the time to push hard for independence.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 10:31
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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FType was a supply teacher for many years. Once, around election time, she asked the children to make suggestions for the new government. The unanimous answer was that they should halve prices and double wages. Simples! I guess those kids are now MSPs.
And I once took the bus from Fort William to Edinburgh, after a wee mishap to my sump on a Highland road. The conversations were all for independence irrespective of whatever costs.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 10:36
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The Tories are finished in Scotland. The anti Tory vote in 2019 was 74% and whether that splits largely in favour of the SNP or Labour is neither here nor there. It's hard to see hows they would benefit if it split differently. Let's face it, in the Scottish mind the Tories currently represent English exceptionalism.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 16:45
  #34 (permalink)  

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They should check the history books (or Wiki these days I suppose) about the Darien Scheme.

Scotland having dreams beyond their abilities ............. hmmmmmmm
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 16:59
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Alex the Fish's opening

Let battle commence.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 17:11
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The long and the short of it is that the only part of the Scottish electorate who have any interest in this brouhaha are the Tories. They are hoping that it will somehow have a detrimental effect on the drive for Independence. It won't. Whoever is in charge of the SNP that has now gained momentum. The best they can hope for is that any other leader of the SNP will be less effective than Wee Nicola. It's not going to happen.
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 18:32
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
The long and the short of it is that the only part of the Scottish electorate who have any interest in this brouhaha are the Tories.
I am impressed EM - you have personally spoken to every voter in scotland and can say with confidence that your statement above is 100% accurate ?Your phone must be red hot LOL

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Old 26th Feb 2021, 18:37
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Care to point out where I said that?
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 18:43
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What you really meant is that you are not interested in the Salmond case and you are assuming that nobody else is

The case will soon be over and you can return to drooling over the wee krankie when she is next on the BBC
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Old 26th Feb 2021, 19:16
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Well she seèms to be knocking your man into a cocked hat. At least she can comb her hair.
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