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Free Speech

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Free Speech

Old 16th Feb 2021, 06:08
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Free Speech

Long overdue imho, the so called woke culture has accelerated the modern trend to deny any negative aspect of various minorities and demonise anyone who dare mention them.
There is good and bad in every sector of society and we should not be encouraging our youngsters to embrace a world where they must fear speaking their minds
...and yes I know the Guardian piece exhibits a different view, I disagree with them but its there for balance
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 06:29
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There's a difference between free speech and hate speech...
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 06:58
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Of course, but it should be recognised that there is good and bad in every corner of society, we seem to have reached a point where you can talk all day about the horrors committed by a slave trader but the moment you bring up the one good thing they might have done in their life you get some 'enlightened' soul jumping on you and accusing you of of being an apologist that id ok with the bad stuff and..its a very immature standpoint and one that is increasing social division.

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Old 16th Feb 2021, 07:04
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I think that largely it's just people being less tolerant of abbhorent behaviour .. not erasing history, just correcting the record. Hardly immature?
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 07:11
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Yes Rich, I think intolerance is the main factor here. Whether you regard someones view as correcting history or simply re-writing it to be closer to the writer's beliefs should be something open to debate and not fixed by some adopted position that demonises the opposite view
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 14:28
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J. S. Mill - “On Liberty”

https://www.libertarianism.org/colum...-mills-liberty

Mill argues in favour of freedom of speech in the vast majority of situations, barring a few key exceptions such as when an individual incites immediate violence.

Mill explains that “mankind can hardly be too often reminded, that there was once a man named Socrates.”

The ancient philosopher Socrates, famous for his Socratic method argument, was put to death by an Athenian jury on charges of impiety and corrupting the youth.

Similar to Socrates, Jesus Christ was also persecuted for his beliefs, which in Mill’s day were considered the moral backbone of English society.

No person no matter how intelligent is wholly infallible and, for Mill, “All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility.” Therefore, no person has the right to silence others. We should all be keenly aware of our fallibility.

Even if the vast majority of people in any given society agree on some issues, it does not justify silencing dissenters.

Mill passionately explains that even if “all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”

Mill laments that so many people have fallen into what he calls the “pleasant falsehood” of believing that “truth triumphs over persecution.”

Truth does not inherently triumph over falsehood. The annals of history repeat this lesson constantly, which is why we should always be hesitant to suppress dissenting or differing views, even on the most fundamental questions of life.

https://socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/e...ll/liberty.pdf
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 14:31
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Just imagine what might have happened if Germany had this a hundred years ago. Why, poor A-dolf would have been deplatformed and the whole of world history might have been changed.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 14:58
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People have stopped questioning and have stopped putting their point of view across because they fear being attacked for their view point.
That is surely not a good thing.
It can regularly be seen on here when posters justify their comments with the rabid Brexiteer, Mail reader, Trumper, Conservative, etc etc.
This is not there to encourage debate, (which is surprising on a forum) but rather to stifle contrary views so they "win" the agreement by belittling those of differing opinions.
Not healthy at all.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 15:12
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There is a meme/joke that is regularly brought up on social media. In reply to anyone who thinks they have the right to say what the hell they like, the response is often...

...unless you're Hitler.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 15:19
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If newspapers are held responsible for the content they print/publish, why are these "so-called social media" companies NOT held responsible? The sooner these social media companies are held to account then hopefully a lot of the rubbish on their platforms is taken down PDQ.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 15:42
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Originally Posted by esscee View Post
If newspapers are held responsible for the content they print/publish, why are these "so-called social media" companies NOT held responsible? The sooner these social media companies are held to account then hopefully a lot of the rubbish on their platforms is taken down PDQ.
Newspapers decide the contents in their papers, social media platforms don't. We should go after those posting.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 15:44
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Why?
Newspapers, for the most part, write their own material to be published and are responsible for it.
Social Media provide a platform for others to express their written views.
There does, IMHO, need to be some kind of regulation but it will take some very wise people to enact something sensible and not pander to the fruitloop snowflakes of society.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 15:49
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With the rise of social media, 'free speech' has become more available ... but with the anonymity it provides, hate speech has a tendency to make its presence felt. What's missing is respect, regardless of the point of view held. You can communicate a point of view without necessarily disrespecting your audience, but there are many who have to learn this skill.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 16:49
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I hate speeches.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 19:07
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Effluent Man
Post No 7. You just made it under the bar
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 19:14
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Social Media platforms indeed allow other people to publish but when they start deciding who may publish, even if the content is not the currently popular meme, they become editors and publishers themselves and should be subject to the same rules.

We are nowhere near deciding what the rules on social media platforms should be and the big danger is that we eventually become so annoyed that we allow the politicians to decide and they will do so to suit themselves. (As usual.)
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 20:56
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all political utterances fall under hate speech, it goes with the job of pointing out the frailties of the other side
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 21:23
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 22:48
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Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
Of course, but it should be recognised that there is good and bad in every corner of society, we seem to have reached a point where you can talk all day about the horrors committed by a slave trader but the moment you bring up the one good thing they might have done in their life you get some 'enlightened' soul jumping on you and accusing you of of being an apologist that id ok with the bad stuff and..its a very immature standpoint and one that is increasing social division.
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." G.O.
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Old 17th Feb 2021, 07:37
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Originally Posted by yotty View Post
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." G.O.
"You don't need to look at a statue to understand history" .. statues and things celebrate an individual.

To lean on someone else's comment, should we have left all the statues of Hitler up in order to "preserve history"?

Read some books (by different authors) if you want to know history!
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