Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

All land rovers to be electric powered by the end of the decade

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

All land rovers to be electric powered by the end of the decade

Old 15th Feb 2021, 18:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 18,928
All land rovers to be electric powered by the end of the decade

One wonders how that will effect the military, you can deliver the wet stuff to power it into the field, but a charging point?


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 16th Feb 2021 at 00:17.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 18:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: england
Posts: 991
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
One wonders how that will effect the military, you can deliver the wet stuff into the field, but charging point?
I would imagine in the short term that ICE utility vehicles for specific tasks will still be available. In the medium term then you might have to buy a bespoke variation with an ICE (£££££££). In the long term doubtless someone will figure out something more effective like the hydrogen paste doing the rounds recently - that looks promising for small vehicles etc.

Hybrid drive trains are already under developmental test for things like recce platforms where having a 15L V12 (hyperbole) is not desirable in certain stages of the mission....
pba_target is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 18:36
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 435
Twitter has cancelled war - no need for it in the greentopia.





(for avoidance of doubt - massive amounts of sarcasm implied)
unmanned_droid is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 19:25
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: north of england
Age: 56
Posts: 321
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that "minor" detail had been overlooked.
mopardave is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 19:48
  #5 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,998
Frankly the British army is now a very small niche market that would represent 0000.1% of their volume sales - so why take it into consideration in their plans?

I am reminded of a a discussion on a submarine thread when someone noted with shock that the main UK producers of electric fans wouldn’t design some specifically for the new Astute and replied by sending them a copy of their current catalogue so they could change their plans instead....
ORAC is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 22:29
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 742
There are large parts of the world where short range electric vehicles won't cut it. Unfortunately, they can't compete in numbers of sales with the urban markets.

I regularly visit three other centres as part of my day job, all by road.

The nearest is 300km away. So I can drive down, get the work done and drive home between sunrise and sundown. Going electric, if you can recharge in 90-120 minutes might be doable.

The next is 1000km away. so its a two day trip with work in the afternoon of the first day and the following morning.

The third is 1500km away. 10-12 hours to get there, a day for work and 10-12 hours back on the third day.

Going electric and factoring in the need for regular recharging, the 100's of kilometres between potential recharge sites and the desire not to be driving at night will potentially add days to these trips.

Until they come up with a rapid charging system supporting a high speed battery range of 1100km its not viable for our local needs.

But I'll be retired before they fully replace turbo diesel with electric, so it's not my problem.
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 22:45
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 65
Posts: 4,433
Originally Posted by CoodaShooda View Post
Th

Until they come up with a rapid charging system supporting a high speed battery range of 1100km its not viable for our local needs.

.
..or indeed have enough charging points on motorways so that you won't be fifth in the queue for the next lead! Waiting to charge will take far longer than taking the actual charge unless there is a HUGE increase in capacity.
Wensleydale is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 00:16
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 18,928
It’s just a pity they got rid of the military lightweight, then they could have had “the charge of the light brigade”.

Landrovers biggest selling point was it was easy to fix with basic tools, sturdy and built to use off grid in some of the most under developed countries, I suppose they now think their target market is the school run.

Mind you I always thought the 110 was built with cross country capability so you could carry out a three point turn.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 02:14
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cowtown
Posts: 185
One good point might be how quiet an electric vehicle can be . Very sneaky . Not like the old dairy electric milk carts all those bottles clinking over the cobblestones .
The range might be depleted by using electric rail guns and or [email protected] weapons .
The breakfast trumpets might need to be tuned to SBD mode .
fitliker is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 02:14
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 65
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Landrovers biggest selling point was it was easy to fix with basic tools, sturdy and built to use off grid in some of the most under developed countries, I suppose they now think their target market is the school run.
It does seem they are turning their back on a significant portion of the market - abandoning the 'go anywhere' and going full in for the soccer mom.

Although it will give them an excuse to charge a huge premium to the military for supplying something that really is 'go anywhere'...
tdracer is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 02:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 1,765
Note the part about hydrogen fuel cells. That might be the go anywhere drive 1000 kms solution...
tartare is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 03:00
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: the far south
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
One wonders how that will effect the military, you can deliver the wet stuff to power it into the field, but a charging point?


..
I don't think you could be more wrong - How many people have died in convoys trying to deliver fuel in Afgan and Iraq?
Fuel not just for vehicles but also for generators.

Quicker they can be free of fossil fuels the less vulnerable they will be!




Last edited by typerated; 16th Feb 2021 at 07:05.
typerated is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 04:41
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by typerated View Post
I don't think you could be more wrong - How many people have died in convoys trying to deliver fuel in Afgan and Iraq?
Fuel not just for vehicles but also for generators.

Quicker they can be free of fossil fuels the less venerable they will be!
what would be the option? A portable nuclear powerplant?
it needs to be portable, fast installation, reliable, usable anywhere. That deducts sorts like wind power and water power.

Regarding the Land Rover: it is already a soccer players choice. There will most probably be mil Land Rover and civilian Land Rover, and neither has nothing to do with each other. Take the G series Mercedes for an example. The G550 chosen by your average football star isn't any good for the military, and if the missus had to close the door of an armored G... well she wouldn't.
The times when mk1 land rover was designed the main thing was general purpose transport with easy fix anywhere by anyone. Now there is a need to protect the unlucky grunt getting a lift amongst other tasks.
The other thing is that in the civilian world one has to worry about co2's and whatnots. In the military world not so. Take a mercedes based tank tow with requirement for NATO compatible fuel: with its emissions it would never be approved in the EU for registration. Since it is military, no one cares whether it is EU3 or 4 or 5 compliant. Or compliant at all.

To make it short: the rules and needs are so far apart in mil and civ worlds, that there will not be a modern day land rover, a chassis that would be suitable for both worlds. Mil gets what they need, civilians then get the electric version with seventy cows as an interior.
Beamr is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 06:05
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 65
Posts: 2
It seems that these sort of decisions are made by accountants / politicians / activists etc. all of whom will be separated in time from the consequences of their action.
But almost never engineers.
Aircraft burn kerosene
Ships burn fuel oil.
Diesel electric trains burn diesel.
Farm machinery burns diesel.
Etc. Etc.
What is completely lacking is any sort of acknowledgment of hard it is going to be to wean ourselves of fossil fuels.
Waving of magic wands wont do it.
George Glass is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 07:56
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: england
Posts: 991
Originally Posted by CoodaShooda View Post
There are large parts of the world where short range electric vehicles won't cut it. Unfortunately, they can't compete in numbers of sales with the urban markets.

I regularly visit three other centres as part of my day job, all by road.

The nearest is 300km away. So I can drive down, get the work done and drive home between sunrise and sundown. Going electric, if you can recharge in 90-120 minutes might be doable.

The next is 1000km away. so its a two day trip with work in the afternoon of the first day and the following morning.

The third is 1500km away. 10-12 hours to get there, a day for work and 10-12 hours back on the third day.

Going electric and factoring in the need for regular recharging, the 100's of kilometres between potential recharge sites and the desire not to be driving at night will potentially add days to these trips.

Until they come up with a rapid charging system supporting a high speed battery range of 1100km its not viable for our local needs.

But I'll be retired before they fully replace turbo diesel with electric, so it's not my problem.
So I sympathize with your high mileage conundrum. However, obviously this isn't representative of the general population. However, I would, as an example, give the Model 3 as an example of where most sensible mid to large electric cars should be by 2030.

A model 3 long range using "real world data" will crack Paddington station to Vienna (930 miles) with 2 hours 9 minutes worth of breaks for charging. (Using 7 breaks of 10-20 minutes on average). That, I'd suggest, is slightly more than I'd take normally, but only very slightly, and probably more in line with my actual age rather than the 25 I still hope I am!

So in sum, I'd say there's always going to be someone who needs to drive to the middle of a forest on an island in Scotland for whom it might not work. But people are developing tools for them as well - fuel cells or other types of hydrogen fuel are bound to be a thing for use cases batteries can't crack. For everyone else, well executed electric cars and charging infra really does work.

(Data from "A Better Route Planner" using a 2019 Tesla model 3 long range (real world performance plugged in) and weather data for 16 Feb 21. ABRP is generally accepted as pretty accurate and does not use ridiculous "manufacturer range data" in this mode.)
pba_target is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 08:08
  #16 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,998
It does seem they are turning their back on a significant portion of the market - abandoning the 'go anywhere' and going full in for the soccer mom.
They lost that market to Toyota years ago....
ORAC is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 08:13
  #17 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,998
what would be the option? A portable nuclear powerplant? it needs to be portable, fast installation, reliable, usable anywhere.
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nucl...cts-this-week/

Pentagon awards contracts to design mobile nuclear reactor

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon on Monday issued three contracts to start design work on mobile, small nuclear reactors, as part of a two-step plan towards achieving nuclear power for American forces at home and abroad.

The department awarded contracts to BWX Technologies, Inc. of Virginia, for $13.5 million; Westinghouse Government Services of Washington, D.C. for $11.9 million; and X-energy, LLC of Maryland, for $14.3 million, to begin a two-year engineering design competition for a small nuclear microreactor designed to potentially be forward deployed with forces outside the continental United States.....
ORAC is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 08:46
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 2,511
these will be similar to versions of the SSN reactors - the Russians already put them on barges for electricity supply in the Far North and RR have been looking at similar in the UK for about 2 years
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 08:53
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 57
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
They lost that market to Toyota years ago....
This sums up the entire thread nicely. I've been going waaaay off the grid regularly for the past 20 years (various parts of the Sahara, sometimes 1500+ km from nearest surfaced road), always used Toyotas. My definition of a desertworthy vehicle: start the engine, then disconnect the battery (or take it out altogether) and see if it continues running. If yes, it goes. The defenders were considered a joke by anyone having some real experience going off-the road in Africa.
andrasz is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 09:18
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: 5Y
Posts: 525
Indeed. Landrovers have become a niche/hobby offroader. You only use one if the vehicle itself is the justification. If you actually want to get somewhere, then Land Cruiser is a no brainer.

For fun I once asked a bunch of blokes who use 4x4's as everyday tools if I could borrow a torque wrench. The Toyota people said 'what's a torque wrench?', the LandRover people said 'sure, what size?'
double_barrel is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.